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Hollowpoints / FMJ ammo

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6fthook

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For all you guys/gals that have ammo stored just in case for when shtf; in regards to handgun ammo, how much of it is actually hollowpoints as opposed to fmj? I'm guessing most of your rifle rounds are fmj.

I'm currently trying to stock up on some handgun ammo, among many other things, and trying to decide how much of a ratio to have of hollowpoints/fmj, or if I should even consider stockpiling fmj for shtf.

The fmj I would use at the range, and buy more as my stockpile goes down so I would always have a good amount. And when I say fmj I mostly mean stuff you get at walmart (winchester white box, federal, etc.)
 
For handguns:

FMJ is for target practice and defeating barriers. Jacketed Hollow-points, Semi-jacketed hollow points, jacketed soft-points and semi-jacketed soft-points make up most of my supply. If you have a hunting handgun, you may always want to consider some Wide-Flat Nosed Hard-Case bullets for hunting medium game with a handgun.

For Rifles:

FMJ is also for target practice. You'll want a supply of hunting rounds. For a stock-pile, you're looking for inexpensive. Remington's Core-lok, Remington's Fusion and general jacketed soft-points all make good hunting rounds. I also have a stock of FMJ rounds in both .223, .308 and .30-06 because that is what you get from military surplus, but I also have a reasonable supply of both loaded and components for hunting style ammunition.
 
For sidearms I would go 80/20 HP/FMJ. FMJ's are useful incase you find yourself in a situation where you have to shoot through something (door, thick brush, possibly a car door if it's more powerful caliber) but the more likely "non-red dawn" situation would be if you were hunting and were without a long arm (or it's use is not practical) a fmj would cause less damage to the meat and less of a chance of disrupting the entrails.

for long arms I would say 90-100% FMJ based purely on the fact that FMJ rifle ammo is more abundant, cheaper, involves less cleaning and in rifle calibers the "stopping power" is close to the same between fmj and hp and you are generally talking distances well over 7 yards (the usual handgun encounter range) so multiple followup shots are more possible.
 
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Well considering the massive price difference between HP and FMJ, I can't justify such a large ratio of HP to FMJ for my ammo (unless I was only storing tiny amounts of ammo, which I'm not). But, that's just me.
 
Prepper,

It depends on the hollow points that you're looking at. In .38 Special semi-jacketed hollow points are sometimes cheaper than FMJ. You don't need to be looking for the "premium" hollow-points (Golden Saber, Gold Dot, Hydro-Shock, etc) I know Midway isn't great on ammunition prices (and doesnt' ship to MA) but 1000rd of FMJ - 32 cents / round. 50rd JHP 39.6 cents / round (both for 40 S&W).

Ammoman.com (again, doesn't ship to MA) Priv 180gn FMJ = 30 cents / round (1000rd case) Winchester Bonded JHP = 37 cents / round. So you can get JHP for about a 20% premium, That means buying about 85% as much ammo for the same price.

In mil-surp calibers, the difference might be larger since theirs a lot more FMJ on the market.
 
Personally, my minimum threshold of HP is enough to top off each one of my magazines for each one of my handguns. Ideally, I like to keep enough on hand to re-load each magazine once or twice. If it feels good sitting on 1000+ rounds of HP, I say go for it, but how many handgun fights do you think you are going to get in and survive to need that much? Keep some HP. Stockpile the FMJ. FMJ is almost always cheaper. You can train more, and you can still shoot bad guys with it if you have too.
 
it's wise to keep some frangible to CQB and armor piercing incendiary to take out light armor too. [rolleyes]


[wink]


full metal jacket....
 
[laugh2]
wolf223 said:
it's wise to keep some frangible to CQB and armor piercing incendiary to take out light armor too. [rolleyes]
Click to expand...

teflon coated heat seaking ballistic tip rounds too! they can be stored in my tinfoil hat![smile]

but seriously Johnny Redhorse is right, it's better to have anything than nothing. except for those .40 shotshell rounds..... i'd probably rather have nothing.
 
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Count me among the ranks of those who stockpile cheap FMJ for target and whatever (replenishing as needed).

HP are for self defense (concealed carry, and home defense).
 
I agree something is better than nothing. I also agree that a "good" stock-pile definately includes FMJ.

The reason for advocating a mix of FMJ and JHP/JSP/SJHP etc is their increased effectiveness for hunting.

That's also why I talked about hunting rounds for rifles. While a FMJ will still take down a deer with good shot placement, the soft-point is more likely to take it down quickly if you miss slightly. I likely over-simplified my original response.

Stock-up on what you can. If you can include JHP, JSP, SJHP, etc in that stock-pile, you'll be better off in the long right.
 
My own little stockpile is probably 90-95% FMJ as far as pistol and rifle rounds go. I figure if it's good for the military then it's good enough for me. Plus it does tend to be cheaper as others have said so it's easier to get a good amount stored away.
 
98% FMJ for rifles and at least 1 or 2 boxes of a soft point hunting type ammo in every caliber for rifles. Mostly ball for pistol with some JHP for the 38/357 and the 40 (in reloading components) .45 is all-ball no HP.
 
Titan said:
Count me among the ranks of those who stockpile cheap FMJ for target and whatever (replenishing as needed).

HP are for self defense (concealed carry, and home defense).
Click to expand...

This sums it up for me. Also, do some of you think that you're going to be swapping out magazines with different types of ammo on the fly depending on whether or not your bad guy is behind a hard barrier vs. a soft barrier?

I say keep it simple and keep a lot of it. Good old 45 acp fmj is a damn good all around bet for most situations.
 
jkeeley1 said:
For sidearms I would go 80/20 HP/FMJ. FMJ's are useful incase you find yourself in a situation where you have to shoot through something (door, thick brush, possibly a car door if it's more powerful caliber) but the more likely "non-red dawn" situation would be if you were hunting and were without a long arm (or it's use is not practical) a fmj would cause less damage to the meat and less of a chance of disrupting the entrails.

for long arms I would say 90-100% FMJ based purely on the fact that FMJ rifle ammo is more abundant, cheaper, involves less cleaning and in rifle calibers the "stopping power" is close to the same between fmj and hp and you are generally talking distances well over 7 yards (the usual handgun encounter range) so multiple followup shots are more possible.
Click to expand...

I think you people are biasing too much towards HP ammo in handguns. Why?

Well, I'd rather have 60 rounds of FMJ than 20 rounds of HP. Thats about the ratio in cost. With that said, a stash of a couple of hundred HPs should do you fine. Then thousands of FMJs for practice and hunting.
Remember, in a defensive situation the "shootee" must drop FAST. If you are hunting and the animal runs 75ft, no big deal. So while a HP may be more effective, I'll take 3 FMJs to 1 hp any day.

In rifles, don't discount Wolf HP. I've got some Wolf .223 HP in 62 and 75 gr. Again, I can buy almost 3 times as much Wolf as I can Lake City military ammo for a given amount of money. (Wolf is back down to $220ish/1000 if you keep your eyes open)
Granted you can't reload the wolf, so that may play into the equation. But again, you could buy 2x as much wolf and spend the rest on once fired brass if you reload. Or better yet, only buy components.

Finally, don't discount the lowly .22 LR. Ammo is cheap and plentiful. In the right conditions almost any animal can be taken with a well placed shot from a .22. Also, given the right gun (Ruger 10/22) you have a decent defensive weapon at distances from 25 to 200 ft. (With a little practice, its not hard to put 25 shots into a 8" paper plate in under 10 seconds at 50 ft.) Another factor in the .22s favor is the fact that 5000 rounds cost $250 and can be carried by 1 man. This is HUGE in a long term SHTF scenario.
 
dcmdon said:
I think you people are biasing too much towards HP ammo in handguns. Why?

Well, I'd rather have 60 rounds of FMJ than 20 rounds of HP. Thats about the ratio in cost. With that said, a stash of a couple of hundred HPs should do you fine. Then thousands of FMJs for practice and hunting.
Remember, in a defensive situation the "shootee" must drop FAST. If you are hunting and the animal runs 75ft, no big deal. So while a HP may be more effective, I'll take 3 FMJs to 1 hp any day.

In rifles, don't discount Wolf HP. I've got some Wolf .223 HP in 62 and 75 gr. Again, I can buy almost 3 times as much Wolf as I can Lake City military ammo for a given amount of money. (Wolf is back down to $220ish/1000 if you keep your eyes open)
Granted you can't reload the wolf, so that may play into the equation. But again, you could buy 2x as much wolf and spend the rest on once fired brass if you reload. Or better yet, only buy components.

Finally, don't discount the lowly .22 LR. Ammo is cheap and plentiful. In the right conditions almost any animal can be taken with a well placed shot from a .22. Also, given the right gun (Ruger 10/22) you have a decent defensive weapon at distances from 25 to 200 ft. (With a little practice, its not hard to put 25 shots into a 8" paper plate in under 10 seconds at 50 ft.) Another factor in the .22s favor is the fact that 5000 rounds cost $250 and can be carried by 1 man. This is HUGE in a long term SHTF scenario.
Click to expand...

Well put my friend. +1
 
dcmdon said:
I think you people are biasing too much towards HP ammo in handguns. Why?

Well, I'd rather have 60 rounds of FMJ than 20 rounds of HP. Thats about the ratio in cost. With that said, a stash of a couple of hundred HPs should do you fine. Then thousands of FMJs for practice and hunting.
Click to expand...

If you're finding a 3 to 1 HP to FMJ cost, you're either paying way too much for HP or I want to know where you're buying your FMJ.

A few weeks back in this post, I tossed up some bulk HP prices that were under 40 cents / round for .40 S&W HP. Are you buying FMJ at under 13 cents a round? When I did comparison shopping between bulk FMJ and bulk HP (not the premium self-defense HP, but bulk HP) I found a 20-25% premium, which translates to 80-85% as much ammunition.

Still, I agree with the sentiment - a few hundred rounds of HP/JHP or JSP with the bulk of the stash being FMJ because it's cheaper.
 
Of course, I take it you don't mean .22, which covers both rifle and handgun, and is available in boxes of 500+ in hollowpoint.
[wink][rockon][cheers][devil2][banana][rofl][popcorn]
 
Shadewpi

You raise a great point. I was referring to premium self defense stuff. The basic "bulk" hp makes a great addition to a SHTF stash. You could almost think of it this way.
fmj - target practice, some hunting
hp - hunting
premium hp - self defense.

Coyote - no , I'm not talking about .22. there seems to be no price difference in .22 between hp and round nose.
 
Well, I would say it depends a lot on the type of handgun you have. For a revolver, I would lean more towards HP, for an autoloader, hardball would be my choice. One thing I would avoid is having two different rounds for the same weapon. The idea of practicing with one type of round and having a different round for serious business strikes me as inherently flawed. Your favorite 1911 might work flawlessly with FMJ, but become an expensive and awkward single shot with those super bear-stomping, man-eating, death-ray titanium core, gold plated warp drive HP's. Your point of impact will likely vary as well.
 
Why HP for Revolver and FMJ for auto? You make the point but don't explain why. Is it the perceived reliability advantage in autoloaders that FMJ's provide?

You are missing a couple of points . Most MODERN autoloaders have been designed around short, truncated cone HP bullets.
My Glock 34 has never failed to go feed, fire, extract and load, every time the trigger was pulled when used with factory ammo. (my crappy reloads don't count)
The same type of reliability can be expected of any Glock, XD or S&W M&P. These guns will eat anything all day long and come back for more.

Your reference to a 1911, I agree with partially. I own 2 Les Baer's and a Colt. The Baers will digest just about anything you give them.
The Colt likes FMJ. It also works with round profile HP like Gold Dot and Remington Golden Saber. It will NOT work reliably with "flying ashtray" type truncated cone HPs.

So it all comes down to knowing what your gun will reliably shoot. Reliability is your #1 concern with a defensive weapon.
So if your weapons prove through testing to be reliable with a HP round and also a cheap FMJ round, why not have them both??

Oh yes , you raise the issue of shifting point of aim. While this may make a difference at 50 yards while hunting, it is a non-issue when a handgun is used at defensive distances.
One of my Baers had adjustible sights. I can get point of impact right on the money at 50 yards.
My other Baer has fixed combat sights.

Do you think Les Baer knew what kind of ammo I was going to use when they regulated the sights??
Of course not. But they picked a middle ground that will shoot more or less point of aim out to a reasonable distance for defensive use. If I want point of aim at 50 yards, I should
be using adjustible.

Again, who cares if your point of impact shifts up or down 1/2 inch at 20 ft??
Of course that same shift evens out to 7.5 inches at 100 yards. So this matters in a hunting rifle, but just doesn't matter with a defensive gun.

Don
 
Hi Don,

Sounds like someone woke up on the wrong side of the bird's nest, judging by the way your feathers are ruffled. The original question was very generic in nature and as such I offered a generalized, non-specific opinion on the subject. But, since you asked a few more detailed questions, I'll indulge your curiosity.

Revolvers are far less particular about the ammunition used in them than autoloaders. This is an irrefutable fact. If you cannot accept this, then read no further as you will learn nothing from this post and will likely find it irritating. Forgive my oversight, I didn't think it would be necessary to point out such a basic truism on a forum for gun-cranks.

I did not miss "a couple of points." Designers of autoloaders have indeed made significant progress in reliability of operation with a wider variety of bullet profiles. Nonetheless, FMJ bullets are the least problematic. Using the word " perceived " does not change nor even mitigate the fact.There is quite a bit of variance from one gun model to the next, and again I point out the vague nature of the original post. For example, 9mm's tend to be more forgiving than .45's due to the geometry of the rounds, but this may be compounded or offset by the make and model of the weapon. I do agree that if a particular gun has been EXTENSIVELY tested with a particular round and has a high rate of reliability with that round then it may reasonably be expected to perform adequately with that round. I thoroughly disagree with the extremely common practice of firing one magazine of "the good stuff" through a gun and declaring it reliable, then shooting nothing but inexpensive "plinking loads" for the next few years while keeping the "defense" loads collecting dust in the nightstand.

I am pleased that you are satisfied with your Glock. They enjoy a good reputation, and having confidence in your choice of defensive weapon is possibly the most important criteria. Personally, no Glock would be my choice for personal defense, nor would any 9mm but we each have our tastes, opinions, and preferences.

"Oh yes , you raise the issue of shifting point of aim. While this may make a difference at 50 yards while hunting, it is a non-issue when a handgun is used at defensive distances." and "Again, who cares if your point of impact shifts up or down 1/2 inch at 20 ft??" First, the POI can vary far more than 1/2 in at 20 ft, and is not limited to the vertical plane. I guess if your definition of "defensive distances" is point blank, then it is a trivial matter indeed. It is somewhat ironic that you specified 50 yards as "hunting" distance, since the Marine Corps considers it pistol range. Forgive me, but I am getting a mental picture of you as one of "those guys" I see at the pistol range...the guy with all the right gear, custom gun, yellow glasses, etc...running magazine after magazine of double and triple taps through his Glock 9mm at a life sized silhouette less than 10 ft in front of him - probably in a Weaver stance.

"Do you think Les Baer knew what kind of ammo I was going to use when they regulated the sights?? Of course not." I would not presume to speak for the folks at Les Baer, but it is the commonly accepted practice to try a variety of ammunition from a fixed sight gun to see what works best. It is not that the gun shoots accurately with all ammo...it is the shooter's responsibility to find what works well in their gun. But I would be tempted to suspect that Les Baer recommends a certain ammunition profile for optimun accuracy in their fixed sight models.

No doubt not the reply you would have preferred, but I have tried to address some of your questions without getting too long winded nor technical.
 

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