Home FFL In Massachusetts

So, to whittle this down and see if I have the info from multiple pages correct.
I can get a 01 or 07 at my home in MA.
MA will not issue a license to sell to my home. I thought I read somewhere else that this is not 100% true, as you can get the license to sell if you are an online only business?
I can sell to parties out of state without the state required license to sell.
 
So, to whittle this down and see if I have the info from multiple pages correct.
I can get a 01 or 07 at my home in MA.
MA will not issue a license to sell to my home. I thought I read somewhere else that this is not 100% true, as you can get the license to sell if you are an online only business?
I can sell to parties out of state without the state required license to sell.
1. You cannot get a MA license to sell firearms from a residence unless you are well connected enough that the powers bend the law in your favor.

2. You can sell online via deliveries to other FFLs without a MA license to sell firearms.

3. There are non-selling justifications acceptable for a home FFL, such as gunwriter, industry consultant, etc.
 
I want to clarify what Rob wrote above. You can sell online via deliveries to other FFL's.

This means you can post a gun on gunbroker. Sell it to someone. Then ship it to their local FFL, where they handle the delivery.
This can be done interstate. Or inside MA. You just can't do what the ATF calls "retail transfer".
 
I believe one of the conditions of Applying for an FFL is you are agreeing that you will obtain all the local/state licenses within X days of receiving your FFL and prior to conducting any business.

You obtain all licenses necessary to be legal. If you aren't doing retail transfers you don't need one to engage in business legally.
 
Close, but it's actually "Within 30 days after the application is approved, the business/activity will comply with the requirements of State and local law applicable to the conduct of the business/activity."

You don't need the state licenses to hold an FFL, but you are then highly limited to what you can do in-state.

You also can't buy guns or silencers from wholesalers. Which you can do if you have a FFL. In the case of silencers, you would need an 07 FFL with a Class 2 SOT.
 
And, if you intend to sell any firearms (including non-NFA) or NFA items, you need an ITAR registration at $2250/year even you do not plan on any export sales..

I know of several small time 07s who are not ITAR registered. I don't personally know of any of them ever being approached by the State Department. Of the documented cases I can find on line, the process involved the state department giving them a choice between giving up their license or paying. There was never any prosecution.
 
I know of several small time 07s who are not ITAR registered. I don't personally know of any of them ever being approached by the State Department. Of the documented cases I can find on line, the process involved the state department giving them a choice between giving up their license or paying. There was never any prosecution.

ITAR no longer the case - see post #137 of this thread.
 
BGOUM - thanks for the ITAR info. Much appreciated.

We have been splitting hairs over what sales are etc.
My point is simply that if you want to be able to buy guns from wholesalers and sell them, but use other dealers for the retail transfer (this is most commonly done when selling on GB), then an 01 or 07 FFL without the state license is all you need.

also key here is that you can then possess silencers and post ban machine guns if you have an 07. And again, you can do this out of your home.
 
what if you wanted to run an online only shop like GunPrime, Big Daddy Unlimited, Etc?
As long as the activity only requires an FFL, and not a MA dealer's license, you only obstacle is convincing the BATFE that you actions are consistent with local zoning.

Be aware that the benefit of "AW/Mag exemption" in MA law comes from the state license, not the federal.
 
As someone who as applied for a FFL from there home address, it ain't gonna happen in MA without a storefront. Its a matter of State law.

The Feds could care less where an FFL is, assuming it meets local law. This includes zoning laws, etc.

When I applied, the examiner checked with my local PD before visiting me. My local PD would not process an application for a state dealer or state gunsmith license, because neither can be licensed at a residence.

I ended up withdrawing my application.

While it is possible to come up with the unique set of circumstances to obtain an FFL at a residence in MA, it's not easy and probably not a good idea anyways. If you are applying for an FFL, you must be actively involved in the business that requires the FFL. So getting a FFL without a State Sales license would not allow you to sell guns, thus you can't make any money, thus your not in the trade and you don't need an FFL. Same deal with gunsmithing. No State license at a residence, no FFL.

If you intend to apply for a manufactures license, the ATF requires more documentation including zoning (is your house zoned for light manufacturing?), and will actually want to see machines (Bridgeport, lathe, etc). If you have no way to manufacture things, you can't really be in the business of making guns. Also, the ATF is getting ticked off at the amount of post-86 machine guns out there in the hands of random FFLs, and is starting to become more stingy with allowing people with no intention of making guns an easy way to get fun guns to blast with their friends.

Even if you go to the effort, jump through the hoops, and get the FFL, if your activity is low enough, there is a good chance your license won't be renewed. Remember, you atleast need to try to make money at it! If all your doing is buying guns for your own consumption or a buddy or two, it will get someone at the ATF upset... It can also lead to tax evasion problems regarding Federal Excise Tax (10% on long guns, 11% on handguns) and NFA taxes, if you end up with NFA weapons you have no intention of selling.

Last reason not to get an FFL out of your house is the inspection problem. By law, the ATF can inspect your inventory and bound book any time during your regular business hours. (You where aware you needed to actually have regular hours, right?) This has major 4th Amendment implications. Your effectively giving up some of your constitutional protections. Also, if you somehow where to be able to do it, and had a State license with your residence as the address, you are subject to inspection once a year by the local licensing authority (your local PD). Same deal... You want a local cop going through your stuff cause you wanted to save a few hundred bucks on a Glock?

--EasyD
I know someone who had the town declare the garden shed next to his house as a separate address, and got it licensed as his gun shop.
But he knows people in town government.
 
Even if you go to the effort, jump through the hoops, and get the FFL, if your activity is low enough, there is a good chance your license won't be renewed. Remember, you at least need to try to make money at it! If all your doing is buying guns for your own consumption or a buddy or two, it will get someone at the ATF upset... It can also lead to tax evasion problems regarding Federal Excise Tax (10% on long guns, 11% on handguns) and NFA taxes, if you end up with NFA weapons you have no intention of selling.

Last reason not to get an FFL out of your house is the inspection problem. By law, the ATF can inspect your inventory and bound book any time during your regular business hours. (You where aware you needed to actually have regular hours, right?) This has major 4th Amendment implications. Your effectively giving up some of your constitutional protections. Also, if you somehow where to be able to do it, and had a State license with your residence as the address, you are subject to inspection once a year by the local licensing authority (your local PD). Same deal... You want a local cop going through your stuff cause you wanted to save a few hundred bucks on a Glock?

The MA prohibition is on issuance of a MA license to sell firearms to a residential address (Ch 140 section 123), not on an FFL.

You have to give a proper reason, and in general, do so with the intent to make a profit and have regular business hours. When EasyD applied for the FFL, what exactly did you do to explain why your business did not require a MA dealer's license?

There is one exception to the regular business hours/intent to make a profit. The ATF used to allow employees, gunwriters, photographers and reps doing work on behalf of the gun manufacturer to receive guns for those purposes on a temporary basis without use of an FFL. I know of cases where reps who did not hold an FFL had tens of thousands of $$ worth of guns delivered to their hotel while attending an event for exhibition, then returned the guns to the factory. .See https://www.atf.gov/file/55481/download for details. It includes:

In ATF Ruling 73-19, for example, ATF determined that firearms consultants and experts may be licensed as dealers to receive firearms from unlicensed persons for testing and evaluation. ATF Rul. 73-19, 1973-ATF C.B. 93. Licensed dealers who engage solely in firearms consulting or expert services for firearms testing or evaluation need not maintain regular business hours or open their business premises to the general public, although they must comply with all other applicable GCA requirements.

BUT.... The BATFE changed the ruled, and now allows that exemption only for W2 employees of the manufacturer. The ATF ruled that "consultants, photographers, gunwriters, volunteers [sic].etc" must hold an FFL, and that they are not required to have regular business hours. Since they explicitly included "volunteers" it would also appear to eliminate the profit motive.

The matter is if one can work the system to have the BATFE recognize this reason, and understand you would not be engaging in any prohibited by MA activity such as transferring firearms (possibly even to out of state dealers).

I could very easily meet the consultant requirement and have the full backing of a gun company or three to vouch that I consult for them, but, as EasyD correctly noted, it's just not worth it. If the FFL conveyed any real benefit (such an exemption from the MA AW ban) I would have already pursued that route.

I thought the Pittman-Robinson tax was paid by the manufacturer, not the FFL. As long as an FFL does not sell and untaxed LEO only gun to an ineligible entity, or manufacturing guns, he FFL is not in the business of paying that tax.
 
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The ATF cares only about 2 things when it comes to issuing an FFL out of your home.
1) Do you intend to engage in commerce in firearms. That is easy to show since there are FFLs who sell 1000+ guns per year out of their home on sites like gunbroker.com
2) Are you in compliance with town zoning regs. This is again easy to show if you know how to do it.

Every town has some language allowing people to engage in "customary home occupations" or sometimes just a "home occupation"

The legal basis for this langugge does not specify any particular kind of occupation. On the contrary pretty much anything is allowed.

The key is that you can't engage in anything that will "detract from the residential character of the neighborhood."

That typically means the prohibition or limitation of
1) signage
2) parking
3) noise
4) dust
5) effluent
6) auto traffic
7) foot traffic

Its very easy to show that a home based FFL that does not retail transfers has none of these problems and fits both the letter and the spirit of a customary home occupation.
Talk to your town's zoning official and get their blessing, because the ATF will absolutely be in touch with them to confirm that there aren't any problems, when they are processing the application.
Also, the license application process requires you to notify the CLEO in your town.
 
Remember that they frown on getting the FFL to "enhance a personal collection". However, you can "enhance" your dealer inventory as much as you want and do what you want with the stuff as long as it stays in the bound book. Jack.
 
The ATF cares only about 2 things when it comes to issuing an FFL out of your home.
1) Do you intend to engage in commerce in firearms. That is easy to show since there are FFLs who sell 1000+ guns per year out of their home on sites like gunbroker.com
2) Are you in compliance with town zoning regs. This is again easy to show if you know how to do it.

Every town has some language allowing people to engage in "customary home occupations" or sometimes just a "home occupation"

The legal basis for this langugge does not specify any particular kind of occupation. On the contrary pretty much anything is allowed.

The key is that you can't engage in anything that will "detract from the residential character of the neighborhood."

That typically means the prohibition or limitation of
1) signage
2) parking
3) noise
4) dust
5) effluent
6) auto traffic
7) foot traffic

Its very easy to show that a home based FFL that does not retail transfers has none of these problems and fits both the letter and the spirit of a customary home occupation.
Talk to your town's zoning official and get their blessing, because the ATF will absolutely be in touch with them to confirm that there aren't any problems, when they are processing the application.
Also, the license application process requires you to notify the CLEO in your town.
If you did this is Metro West Mass, could you share more details? Did you register your online-only business with the city, file a dba (business) certificate, etc? Or just talk to the head of zoning and get on the same page?
 
Hello,

New guy here and I'm back in Mass after decades of being away.

This thread has been going on a long time and I do not see a clear answer to the question of whether you can get a Type 07 FFL 02 SOT using a home address or how to legally build a machinegun at your home in Massachusetts.

My situation is this, I build LEGAL firearms and reload my own ammunition LEGALLY at my home. I have over 30 years with the Army as a civilian and a soldier. I have shot since I was young and have competed in firearms competitions of all types and hunt. I really enjoyed machinegun competition in the Army; I was on a machinegun team and was even a machinegun team captain one year. The one thing I always wanted to do as a civilian was to compete in machinegun competitions and demonstrations around the country but simply can't afford the tens of thousands of dollars to buy just one machinegun.

For a very small fraction of the cost, I could build my own machineguns to use in a competition or demonstration and with the right amount of tender loving care and attention to detail could build my own machineguns with sufficient accuracy to shoot competitively. For example, I don't need an expensive Krieghoff or pricey customized Beretta to be competitive in Sporting Clays. I can and have scored perfect scores at difficult stations while the competitors sporting expensive shotguns did not do as well. Needless to say, the shotgun I bought and personally tuned to my taste cost me no more than one thousand dollars total.

With that said, I do not want to be in the firearms sales business. I just want to build machineguns at my home like an M60, MG42, or other type and use them to compete in competitions around the country or simply provide a demonstration to the public. I would also like to make videos, when or if I can, regarding the historical qualification standards that were used to certify machinegun crews and actually perform the qualification on video and explain the various techniques used by the crew in the video. There is also great opportunity to make videos regarding the capabilities of each machinegun type. Then again, I'm the kind of guy who owns my own M109A3 Shop Van and use it to explain to the public how soldiers like me built nuclear weapons in the back of them during the Cold War.

So, if anyone can help me figure out what I need to do to live my dream of building machineguns LEGALLY in my Massachusetts home to use for LEGAL educational and competitive purposes, I would be greatly appreciative. Quite frankly, I just can't afford to buy a commercial machinegun to fulfill my dream but I could without a doubt build one myself and get a great deal of pleasure out of building one.

Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter! Best wishes to all ;)

Taurus454
 
Reloading ammo legally is easy.
Building a machinegun?
That's going to be a little more complicated.

You may just need to wait until the right case is brought before the SCOTUS and the NFA finally falls
 
Hello,

New guy here and I'm back in Mass after decades of being away.

This thread has been going on a long time and I do not see a clear answer to the question of whether you can get a Type 07 FFL 02 SOT using a home address or how to legally build a machinegun at your home in Massachusetts.

My situation is this, I build LEGAL firearms and reload my own ammunition LEGALLY at my home. I have over 30 years with the Army as a civilian and a soldier. I have shot since I was young and have competed in firearms competitions of all types and hunt. I really enjoyed machinegun competition in the Army; I was on a machinegun team and was even a machinegun team captain one year. The one thing I always wanted to do as a civilian was to compete in machinegun competitions and demonstrations around the country but simply can't afford the tens of thousands of dollars to buy just one machinegun.

For a very small fraction of the cost, I could build my own machineguns to use in a competition or demonstration and with the right amount of tender loving care and attention to detail could build my own machineguns with sufficient accuracy to shoot competitively. For example, I don't need an expensive Krieghoff or pricey customized Beretta to be competitive in Sporting Clays. I can and have scored perfect scores at difficult stations while the competitors sporting expensive shotguns did not do as well. Needless to say, the shotgun I bought and personally tuned to my taste cost me no more than one thousand dollars total.

With that said, I do not want to be in the firearms sales business. I just want to build machineguns at my home like an M60, MG42, or other type and use them to compete in competitions around the country or simply provide a demonstration to the public. I would also like to make videos, when or if I can, regarding the historical qualification standards that were used to certify machinegun crews and actually perform the qualification on video and explain the various techniques used by the crew in the video. There is also great opportunity to make videos regarding the capabilities of each machinegun type. Then again, I'm the kind of guy who owns my own M109A3 Shop Van and use it to explain to the public how soldiers like me built nuclear weapons in the back of them during the Cold War.

So, if anyone can help me figure out what I need to do to live my dream of building machineguns LEGALLY in my Massachusetts home to use for LEGAL educational and competitive purposes, I would be greatly appreciative. Quite frankly, I just can't afford to buy a commercial machinegun to fulfill my dream but I could without a doubt build one myself and get a great deal of pleasure out of building one.

Thank you for your time and consideration on this matter! Best wishes to all ;)

Taurus454
To actually do what you want legally you need an 07 FF (as well as the attendant MA licenses), and you ain't going to have one of those in your house in Mass, unless you're zoned in really weird area where you can have an outbuilding....
 
... I do not want to be in the firearms sales business. I just want to build machineguns at my home....
No.

You can't build MGs without an FFL 07/SOT, you can't get an 07 unless you are in the business manufacturing firearms, or at least selling them. You also won't get the MA dealer without a business address, and the chances of getting a MA MG license will depend on where, much of MA is an absolute NO.

But move to another state and it get much easier.

Never saw anything on MG competitions. MG shoots in general seem to have died since Monadnock stopped doing them.
 
I just went through the process of inspecting the home based FFL question in MA. It’s a no go. The ATF agent I spoke to, who was quite helpful, said that they would grant an FFL to a home address but the state wouldn’t. He suggested as a way to get around it: a detached property (i.e. shed) and petition the town/city to reclassify it as a commercial zone/structure and get a new address for it. The property, however, would then be taxed which may defeat the home based FFL.

Furthermore, per the FRB: all FFLs need the MA dealers license. I couldn’t find a law to support this claim. The rep I spoke to implied that any firearms dealing in the state even if not with state residents would require an MA dealers license. Maybe someone can expand more on that who knows more. And it goes without saying that the state will not grant you a license at home.

After a good month of searching something came up in an industrial area for cheap rent and low square footage. Just sent my 07 application off Friday and signed a lease. It took a ton of work to find a reasonably priced space and lots of phone calls to zoning boards, building inspectors, constituent services, etc. Just look and keep looking and you can find a space that is zoned and will let you get the 07. I emailed every place I could find and basically asked to be a basement dweller just to have an address for the ATF that wasn’t my home.

The other option is to become an employee of an existing 07/02 and see if you can perform the work on the premises. Problem is, even with this route, you’re still looking at ownership of a machine gun and outside of being an FFL (I believe C&R can have a Machine Gun license) that’s difficult to do. Again, someone can perhaps clarify more.

My suggestion would be to search for a space. No matter what, even if you don’t want to be considered one, you will be an arms dealer in the eyes of the fed and the state so that’s the expectation you need to set forward.
 
FRB is blowing smoke. Every MA based person selling strictly to those outside of MA do NOT have to have a MA Dealer's License. I have a friend/former co-worker who has an FFL out of his MA residence but sells strictly online to non-MA entities. He does not have a MA Dealer's license.

As for doing this wrt machine guns, that is not an area that I am knowledgeable about, so I'll pass to those much more knowledgeable of that area.
 
FRB is blowing smoke. Every MA based person selling strictly to those outside of MA do NOT have to have a MA Dealer's License. I have a friend/former co-worker who has an FFL out of his MA residence but sells strictly online to non-MA entities. He does not have a MA Dealer's license.

As for doing this wrt machine guns, that is not an area that I am knowledgeable about, so I'll pass to those much more knowledgeable of that area.
The ATF was also surprised at the potentially new interpretation by the FRB. Of all the agencies I reached out to, the FRB was the most difficult to get an answer from.
 
and the chances of getting a MA MG license will depend on where, much of MA is an absolute NO.
What is a MA MG license? Yes, I can enter the competitions for the military and so on. Knob Creek did close but Big Sandy, the King of MG shoots, is still going strong and the next is 17-19 MAR 23. In any case, I would love to make a documentary on the machinegun "beaten zone" and its historical effectiveness in combat. Demonstrating the beaten zone could be done with high speed cameras to shoot its effectiveness down range with ballistic dummies and/or balloons. Any case, it would be a stellar documentary!
 
The other option is to become an employee of an existing 07/02 and see if you can perform the work on the premises. Problem is, even with this route, you’re still looking at ownership of a machine gun and outside of being an FFL (I believe C&R can have a Machine Gun license) that’s difficult to do. Again, someone can perhaps clarify more.

My suggestion would be to search for a space. No matter what, even if you don’t want to be considered one, you will be an arms dealer in the eyes of the fed and the state so that’s the expectation you need to set forward.
I have had a C&R for awhile now, never heard of being able to own an MG with one.

Assuming I get a 07/02 for some place other than my home, where would I have to store any MG that I manufactured? And could I manufacture one at my home?

Thank you to all for the great responses ;)
 
What is a MA MG license? Yes, I can enter the competitions for the military and so on. Knob Creek did close but Big Sandy, the King of MG shoots, is still going strong and the next is 17-19 MAR 23. In any case, I would love to make a documentary on the machinegun "beaten zone" and its historical effectiveness in combat. Demonstrating the beaten zone could be done with high speed cameras to shoot its effectiveness down range with ballistic dummies and/or balloons. Any case, it would be a stellar documentary!
Much like you need an LTC to possess firearms, there's an additional license to lawfully possess MGs in MA. You go through a similar application process with your chief, just checking off the MG box on the first page. Then you'll get an additional card, with a green stripe on the top, that renews every 6 years, separate from your LTC. Not all chiefs will grant them, so you should chat with yours in advance to see if he will before applying.
 
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