How Do You Carry ????

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CHAPTER 269. CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC PEACE

MXD saud:
CHAPTER 269. CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC PEACE Chapter 269: Section 12D. Rifle or shotgun loaded with shells or cartridges; unloaded rifle or shotgun; carrying on public way prohibited; exceptions; punishment (b) Except as exempted or provided by law, no person shall carry on his person on any public way an unloaded rifle or shotgun, unless such rifle or shotgun is enclosed in a case.
Well that missed a few words... Here's the exact beginning quote from the MGL's: Chapter 269: Section 12D. Rifle or shotgun loaded with shells or cartridges; unloaded rifle or shotgun; carrying on public way prohibited; exceptions; punishment Section 12D. (a) Except as exempted or provided by law, no person shall carry on his person on any public way a loaded rifle or shotgun having cartridges or shells in either the magazine or chamber thereof. The chapter I quoted ALLOWS it by law, with exemptions both yea and nay, under other statutes thus, "Except as exempted or provided by law".

There is also a difference between, carrying in the vehicle under your direct control and, "on his person". I did not say I was concealing a shotgun or had it on my person, just under my direct control. Look, I am not advocating carrying a loaded shotgun in your truck, just pointing out the absurdity of a constant condition 1 carry when there are other alternatives. Again, there are times that are right to do so, just not required at all times in my living room.

"on any public way a loaded rifle or shotgun having cartridges" Well we know that's bullshit since "any public way" is not acceptable under other MA law while hunting. It's, "an improved surface" which alters that definition and is thus is acceptable under, "Except as exempted or provided by law." A public way through a wildlife management area can be a dirt road. An improved surface is not legal to carry loaded. You may carry a loaded shotgun under the not improved surface requirement. That is unless they have changed the law on just what is a, "public way" and what's an improved surface.
 
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If I carry, which is rare, I carry a G27 on my left hip as a cross draw. I don't chamber a round.
Not everyone can kill a man with their thumbs... [laugh]

carry = chambered - always...

You will be behind the curve as it is if you need to us it - don't add steps.

Trigger position depends on the gun...
 
MXD saud: Well that missed a few words... Here's the exact beginning quote from the MGL's: Chapter 269: Section 12D. Rifle or shotgun loaded with shells or cartridges; unloaded rifle or shotgun; carrying on public way prohibited; exceptions; punishment Section 12D. (a) Except as exempted or provided by law, no person shall carry on his person on any public way a loaded rifle or shotgun having cartridges or shells in either the magazine or chamber thereof. The chapter I quoted ALLOWS it by law, with exemptions both yea and nay, under other statutes thus, "Except as exempted or provided by law".

There is also a difference between, carrying in the vehicle under your direct control and, "on his person". I did not say I was concealing a shotgun or had it on my person, just under my direct control. Look, I am not advocating carrying a loaded shotgun in your truck, just pointing out the absurdity of a constant condition 1 carry when there are other alternatives. Again, there are times that are right to do so, just not required at all times in my living room.

"on any public way a loaded rifle or shotgun having cartridges" Well we know that's bullshit since "any public way" is not acceptable under other MA law while hunting. It's, "an improved surface" which alters that definition and is thus is acceptable under, "Except as exempted or provided by law." A public way through a wildlife management area can be a dirt road. An improved surface is not legal to carry loaded. You may carry a loaded shotgun under the not improved surface requirement. That is unless they have changed the law on just what is a, "public way" and what's an improved surface.

Ummmmmm, I wasn't even referring to anything you said. I quoted another poster all together that said he doesn't remember reading anywhere that walking around town with a shotgun slung over his shoulder was prohibited. I was only pointing out that it seems to be according to MGL.


I am 100% lost as to the connection you have made between my post and yours.
 
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whatever i carry HKp2000 or Glock 26 or micro eagle or what ever i carry-I carry chambered as usual... and ready to go.
 
I know of static electricity that has caused an accidental discharge.

Can you (or anyone else) point me to a documented instance of this?

If not, please tell me how you know that it has happened. What exactly did you see?
 
It seems someone likes to create his own interpretations of law. Allow me to quote the Massachusetts definition of a firearm:

“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.

Translation: The Commonwealth uses this word to mean "handgun". Thus, you cannot have a loaded shotgun under your direct control in a vehicle and consider it legal, since it has to have a barrel length greater than 18 inches. Loophole closed.


With regards to the explanation of large capacity rifles and shotguns:

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

Translation: This does not give you permission to carry a loaded non-large capacity rifle or shotgun in your vehicle. It is only saying that a large-capacity rifle or shotgun must be in a trunk or secure container, while a non-large capacity rifle or shotgun can be secured with a locking device.



IANAL(Scrivener, feel free to rip me apart), but I feel that my reading of the above sections explains any legal misconceptions that may have been posted. As for the static electricity...
 
If I have a rifle or shotgun with me it’s in the trunk (i.e. secure container).

[rolleyes]

Anyway….I always carry and always with one in the pipe. My safety is my finger. Remember, not all guns have manual ‘safety’ levers/switches. Glock, Sig, Kel-Tec, some Smiths, revolvers, etc.
 
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...you can legally carry a loaded shotgun uncased in the front of your vehicle. There are a couple conditions that need to be met, but it is legal. ...just toss that trusty, loaded 12 ga model 12 pump on your front seat and have at it.

...As long as the shotgun is a non-high capacity, and you have a high cap license and it's under your direct control...

Ummm, what?

Chapter 131: Section 63. A person, other than the director of law enforcement, his deputy directors of enforcement, chiefs of enforcement, deputy chiefs of enforcement, environmental police officers, deputy environmental police officers, warden and members of the state or local police in areas over which they have jurisdiction, special officers or persons charged with the protection of persons or property while acting in the discharge of their respective duties, as such, and paraplegics as provided in section sixty-five, shall not, except upon land owned or occupied by him, have in his possession or under his control in or on any motor vehicle or aircraft a loaded shotgun or rifle, nor shall he have in his possession or under his control in any motor boat a loaded shotgun or rifle unless authorized by the director in regulations relating to the hunting of migratory waterfowl; and any person shall, upon the demand of any officer authorized to enforce this chapter, display for inspection any shotgun or rifle in his possession or under his control in a motor vehicle, aircraft or motorboat while not on property owned or occupied by him.
 
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I started off without one in the chamber but on the second or third day I realized this...


I remember seeing a security camera video of a jewelry store heist. A customer drew their concealed handgun to fight back, but either didn't have one in the pipe, or the gun malfunctioned. He proceeded to fumble with the slide, was promptly shot, and died. All was caught on camera. It will make your blood run cold.
 
I remember seeing a security camera video of a jewelry store heist. A customer drew their concealed handgun to fight back, but either didn't have one in the pipe, or the gun malfunctioned. He proceeded to fumble with the slide, was promptly shot, and died. All was caught on camera. It will make your blood run cold.

Good memory. You don't want to be this guy:

(Caution, this is pretty graphic.)
http://ilovepwnage.com/video.php?v=Mzc1NA==
 
I remember seeing a security camera video of a jewelry store heist. A customer drew their concealed handgun to fight back, but either didn't have one in the pipe, or the gun malfunctioned. He proceeded to fumble with the slide, was promptly shot, and died. All was caught on camera. It will make your blood run cold.

I hear ya, I was driving through Dorchester picking up a rent checks when the light bulb in my head went off. I may have a loaded gun on me right now but its useless if when I pull the trigger it doesn't go off. I racked it and haven't looked back since.
 
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ignore it, dude. just a guy who occasionally carries shitty equipment giving shitty advice to a new shooter. better to focus on and reaffirm the good advice given to the new guy in this thread.
He's also the guy worried about EMP discharges knocking out the electronics on gun safes with keypad entry. I think it's pretty safe to ignore what he says.

[tinfoil]
 
Really, tell me more. Ever hear of a Faraday shield?
yeah, I'm having a problem the physics on that one as well...

Need to hear a lot more about that circumstance... Ground path for one?

As for older guns - sure - that's why I don't carry anything I don't trust in a configuration I don't trust. Nothing cheap, nothing in suspect condition, nothing with a bad reputation. Nothing I would not happily throw on the ground and trust were it not for the damage to the finish.

I do have to admit, I don't like carrying things with cocked external hammers. I prefer internal and/or DAO hammers for carry. When I carry something with an external hammer, I plan on and practice cocking during the draw rather than carry cocked. I sweep the back of my DAO guns during draw to keep the motion consistent with all the guns I carry.

As for cooking off rounds from ambient heat - I am in a world of hurt if my body is anywhere near as hot as it would have to be for my side-arm to cook-off a chambered round... Worth a thought though in your 'stop drop and roll' now becomes 'stop toss drop and roll' [wink]

Lastly for AC, some degree of stupidity has to have ensued to get a concealed weapon. When working with machinery/electricity, I take precautions with all the things I wear including wedding rings that are far more likely to get me in trouble playing with hot wires and mechanical parts than my side-arm.
 
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i think you'll find that with all CCW threads / questions, there's a lot of info that's passed on as gospel which is, in fact, entirely subjective and related directly to the respondants experience. a lot of carrying / firearms / holsters / conditions, etc., is personal, and relates directly to the shooter who responds. equipment and technique that can work for some shooters simply don't work for others.

some things are non-negotiable for self-defense carry though. in my opinion, - and i'm just a guy who tinkers with stuff to see what works- these are the non-negotiable items:

1. belt- your belt must support your carry gun in way that conceals it, and keeps your holster in a static position if you need to draw. the best belts in my opinion are made by the beltman. http://www.thebeltman.net/ it can take some time to get one, but they're well worth the wait.

2. holster- you have to have a good, reliable, quick release holster - be it IWB or OWB. again, this is only my opinion, but I think that BladeTech makes the best holsters.

3. condition- you must carry with a round in the chamber. a gun isn't going to magically go off and spray bullets. it isn't going to explode. in fact, it isn't going to do anything while in your quality holster on your quality belt unless you draw and pull the trigger. you're more likely to get hit by lightning or die in a car accident than have your gun "go off." if you're not carrying in condition 1, you shouldn't be carrying at all. your instinct to go for your gun in a confrontation - only to find that you have to rack a slide, or spin a cylinder, will slow you down and get you killed. you'd be better off not carrying, and going hand to hand. run some contact drills, and practice zippering your target while making space. the reality of a self defense encounter is this- it's going to happen close... as in 6 inches to 1 ft close... you'd better be able to draw, twist on your hip, and zipper without extending your hand, and without worrying about whether or not there's a bullet in the pipe ready to go. that shit where people have time to rack slides, find cover, etc., is hollywood crap.

i don't know what you're running for a semi-auto right now, but my advice would be to buy a S&W M&P 9 or a Glock 17 and learn how to conceal it. run the gun hard. get to know how it operates. adjust your wardrobe accordingly. after you've mastered one of those, you can start transitioning into the compacts and mouse style guns. you'll gain a boatload of confidence running a full sized semi, and learning how to conceal it, and then you'll be able to pass that knowledge on to others.

and like i said earlier, i'm just a dude who tinkers. i'm not a trainer or an operator or anything else. so if this doesn't work for you, no worries. i'm not going to be upset. [wink]

WORD

ETA: Or you can be cool and carry one of these:
DSC00918.jpg


J/K [smile]
 
ignore it, dude. just a guy who occasionally carries shitty equipment giving shitty advice to a new shooter. better to focus on and reaffirm the good advice given to the new guy in this thread.

Yup. I just wanted to make sure that the assertions "smokey-seven" made about static electricity were addressed specifically so that new shooters (or outsiders doing research) don't take it as fact. Now that he's been challenged and has failed to respond with proof, I'm more than happy to ignore his foolishness.
 
If you're worried about static discharge, just shuffle your feet and zap your attacker THEN draw your gun. At this point he'll probably be stunned, on the ground, and compliant [smile]
 
As usual, Timber offers some GREAT advice.

Good Belt / Holster combination. You want to make sure the position, cant and draw of the firearm is exactly the same everytime. This will help you build up muscle memory so your reactions follow the correct path in the event of an emergency.

Carry Condition: You should always carry in the same condition which allows single-handed draw and fire. For an auto-loader, this means a round in the chamber. For revolvers, this means one in the next chamber to be fired (can allow the hammer to be sitting on an empty chamber, which was common with older style single-action pistols)

Most people will recommend single-action auto-loaders are also "Cocked and Locked" such that you can drop the safety and fired. If you're not comfortable carrying with a cocked, external hammer, consider a double action pistol, double action only or you will need to train extensively to add cocking the hammer with one hand to your draw technique. (Possible, just more difficult to master)
If you are really uncomfortable carrying with a loaded chamber, consider a double action revolver that rotates the cylinder before firing (I'm not aware of any that do not, but don't want to assume). This will allow you to draw and fire from a position where the hammer is resting on an empty chamber, but you lose 1 round from the capacity to do so.

Once you select a firearm that you are comfortable carrying, verify its reliability. Fire A LOT of ammunition through it, the ammunition you're going to carry in it. Most places seem to recommend a minimum of 500rd without failure, so I follow that. It's expensive, but it provides pretty good assurance that the ammunition/firearm combination are suitable.

Practice, again A LOT. Pratice dry fire drills, practice normal and tactical reloads, clearing a jam, strong hand, weak-hand, single hand firing. Video yourself (or have someone videoing you) shooting so you can watch it to see if you're doing something wrong. Take a training course and have an instructor watch what you're doing.
If you're practicing with rounds other than your carry rounds, make sure you include some practice with your carry rounds in your training schedule.

Welcome to the club.
 
You will be behind the curve as it is if you need to us it - don't add steps.

When I carry my piece its more of a burden then anything else to me. Why bother loading it if I dont plan on ever seriously using it? I dont want to carry it, ever. When I do I'm always like "why the F do i have this friggen thing on me its digging into my hip." I dont want to unload it and clear it after im done carrying it either (I dont store firearms loaded).

If I thought i had a realistic chance of being attacked while going out, i would either stay home or i would carry the gun loaded. Its not about me being not trained, uncomfortable with it being loaded or any of that. Its about me not wanting to bother doing it in the first place.
 
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When I carry my piece its more of a burden then anything else to me. Why bother loading it if I dont plan on ever seriously using it? I dont want to carry it, ever. When I do I'm always like "why the F do i have this friggen thing on me its digging into my hip." I dont want to unload it and clear it after im done carrying it either (I dont store firearms loaded).

If I thought i had a realistic chance of being attacked while going out, i would either stay home or i would carry the gun loaded. Its not about me being not trained, uncomfortable with it being loaded or any of that. Its about me not wanting to bother doing it in the first place.
As someone who has experienced unprovoked assault from multiple attackers first hand, all I have to say is... [rofl2]

I agree, if I was heading somewhere and I KNEW I was going to need it, I'd do just about anything to avoid going there.

Therein lies the flaw in your reasoning. You will not likely know when you are going to need it until the moment after you do.

Your statement is akin to saying that you will buy a fire exteinguisher the day before you are going to have a fire. You will put on your seat belt in the moments before you are going to have an accident. You will wear a rubber when you run into the infected or fertile girl.

Sorry Dench, that just doesn't make sense... I am invoking the Chewbacca defense... [laugh]
 
If I thought i had a realistic chance of being attacked while going out, i would either stay home or i would carry the gun loaded. Its not about me being not trained, uncomfortable with it being loaded or any of that. Its about me not wanting to bother doing it in the first place.

I feel the urge to kick your ass after reading your statements. [wink]
 
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