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How do you prefer to close the slide on your semi-auto?
- Thread starter Cross-X
- Start date
Don't use your right thumb on the slide stop -- use your left thumb, just as you acquire a good, two-handed thumbs-forward grip:
http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_training/combatg_100306/index3.html
I think I need help. I looked at that pic without seeing the article and knew it was Brian Enos.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
My strong hand thumb does my slide stop manipulation. Hands come in different sizes though so I don't expect everyone to do it that way.
Me, too, but mostly because Enos has the largest hands of any shooter I've seen.I think I need help. I looked at that pic without seeing the article and knew it was Brian Enos.
My 4006 would do that, as will 2 of my SVI's. I consider that a beneficial feature.![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Yup, my Sigma 40VE will release the slide with a brisk insertion of the mag as well.
Sling shot. It is universal, doesn't matter what gun I'm holding. I don't need to think about where the slide lock is. I'm just more comfortable with it.
The bit about not slamming home the slide when not chambering the round bothers me. I've heard and seen it before, but the thought that loading a round into the chamber expends enough energy to make a difference seems strange.
Just think, there are (2) cases and I don't like the implications either way:
1) Loading the round consumes a small fraction of the slide energy, say 10%, but it is enough to prevent damange. This means that the slide only has a design safety factor of ~10%. Not so good...
2) Loading the round consumes a large portion of energy, say 50-60%. This would imply moderate changes in the loading of rounds could easily lead to a FTF. Not so good either...
So, lacking setting my pistol up with an accelerometer and measuring the actual changes, I tend to believe #1 is the truth, except that I believe the bit about breaking the slide is bunk.
Matt
The bit about not slamming home the slide when not chambering the round bothers me. I've heard and seen it before, but the thought that loading a round into the chamber expends enough energy to make a difference seems strange.
Just think, there are (2) cases and I don't like the implications either way:
1) Loading the round consumes a small fraction of the slide energy, say 10%, but it is enough to prevent damange. This means that the slide only has a design safety factor of ~10%. Not so good...
2) Loading the round consumes a large portion of energy, say 50-60%. This would imply moderate changes in the loading of rounds could easily lead to a FTF. Not so good either...
So, lacking setting my pistol up with an accelerometer and measuring the actual changes, I tend to believe #1 is the truth, except that I believe the bit about breaking the slide is bunk.
Matt
Chris
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Preferred method?
Smacking it upside the head of a liberal politician to knock some sense into them. But failing to see an option for that...
I'll do either method depending on the situation. I probably use the slidelock more often because it alters my grip less. And with the M&P and being able to use my shooting hand's middle finger for mag release (ie, the button is on the right side) I rarely have to move my shooting hand on the gun.
That said, I generally teach the 'slingshot' method to make it easier and consistent across every firearm they are likely to handle in class.
I have small hands... my slide lock isn't easily used by them. I've tried sitting at a desk doing it over and over...after the 10th time it started getting harder and harder for me to use it. So I I prefer sling shotting it.
P-14
NES Member
I put an extended slide release on the P14 just to make ALL reloads that much faster (primarily for IDPA). Strong hand thumb releases the slide as soon as the new mag is seated. Weak hand is on the way up to resume engaging targets. Smooth and fast is the only way to go. "Slingshotting" the slide takes too much time.
Regards,
Bob
1) If the chamber is empty, one should do neither, but rather ease the slide down against the barrel face.
2) The slingshot method has two potential disadvantages: either the user doesn't fully release at the apex of retraction but rather eases the slide forward a bit first, or the user loses his grip before the apex of retraction is met. Either reduces the effect of the recoil spring and leads to a potential failure to go into battery.
3) The slingshot method essentially relies on gravity to allow the slide stop (now freed of the upward push of the magazine follower and the retaining force of the locked slide) to drop. Most of the time, this will work; there are situations where it may not. Using the slide lock imparts a direct force to drop it out of position. It is what John Browning intended.
4) I routinely teach people to drop on a round using the slide lock, actuated by the thumb of the left hand. This (a) avoids the "light drop" potential, (b) avoids a shifted grip by trying to use the right thumb, and (c) helps to insure that the left thumb is not crossed over the right thumb for firing.
2) The slingshot method has two potential disadvantages: either the user doesn't fully release at the apex of retraction but rather eases the slide forward a bit first, or the user loses his grip before the apex of retraction is met. Either reduces the effect of the recoil spring and leads to a potential failure to go into battery.
3) The slingshot method essentially relies on gravity to allow the slide stop (now freed of the upward push of the magazine follower and the retaining force of the locked slide) to drop. Most of the time, this will work; there are situations where it may not. Using the slide lock imparts a direct force to drop it out of position. It is what John Browning intended.
4) I routinely teach people to drop on a round using the slide lock, actuated by the thumb of the left hand. This (a) avoids the "light drop" potential, (b) avoids a shifted grip by trying to use the right thumb, and (c) helps to insure that the left thumb is not crossed over the right thumb for firing.
Depends;
If you are shooting for target practice, it does not matter
If you are training for defense, you should NOT use the slide stop because it is a fine motor skill. Under the extreme stress of a lethal encounter you will have very limited (or no) fine skills and you will most likely not even be able to feel the part with your finger.
The gross motor skill of grabbing the slide with your hand is far easier to perform under stress.
You will notice that the nomenclature is slide stop, NOT slide release.
If you are shooting for target practice, it does not matter
If you are training for defense, you should NOT use the slide stop because it is a fine motor skill. Under the extreme stress of a lethal encounter you will have very limited (or no) fine skills and you will most likely not even be able to feel the part with your finger.
The gross motor skill of grabbing the slide with your hand is far easier to perform under stress.
You will notice that the nomenclature is slide stop, NOT slide release.
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I use the sling shot method. I'm a lefty so the slide stop is always on the wrong side of the gun to be reached comfortably. Of course, my first choice is to load before slide lock so this is never an issue.
-Cuz.
Weak thumb slide release, eyes on target.
Muscle memory > loss of fine motor skill
Muscle memory > loss of fine motor skill
Sometimes slide lock, sometimes slingshot. Depends on my mood.
+1, it depends on what I'm doing.
weak hand over the top of the slide. Thumb towards the rear. This is how I teach all my Officers also.
I sometimes use the slide stop lever on my S&Ws and on others but never on my Glock. According to Glock recomendations (and I go to the recert armorers course every 3 years and every Glock Instructor I have had says the same thing) it wears down the slide stop lever because the glocks are made differently than your classic autos. The Glocks have a slide stop lever which is a piece of metal with a wire on the end of it that wraps up under the locking block pin and releasing the slide using this all the time wears it down after a while.
I sometimes use the slide stop lever on my S&Ws and on others but never on my Glock. According to Glock recomendations (and I go to the recert armorers course every 3 years and every Glock Instructor I have had says the same thing) it wears down the slide stop lever because the glocks are made differently than your classic autos. The Glocks have a slide stop lever which is a piece of metal with a wire on the end of it that wraps up under the locking block pin and releasing the slide using this all the time wears it down after a while.
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I'm sorry, but this is completely unsubstantiated bunk. You won't be able operate the slide stop but you will be able to operate the trigger?
Explain to me, exactly, what constitutes a fine motor skill and what constitutes a gross motor skill? Which muscles are in play when operating the slide stop that are not in play when slingshoting the slide? When hitting the slide stop with my left thumb, I merely press in and down from where my thumb naturally rests in my two-handed grip. To slingshot the slide, I have to change the angle of my left hand, grip the slide correctly, pull it back all the way and release -- if I release too soon, then it won't work. But that is somehow less complicated than pushing down on the slide stop?
![[flame]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/032.gif "Flame [flame]")
People keep repeating this mantra over and over, never making any pretense of proving its truth, as if repetition alone will prove it.
I don't have to think about hitting the slide stop. I don't have to look for it. I don't have to feel for it. I'm no master class shooter, but it is automatic for me, and with a good slide stop in the correct position and a bit of practice, it can be automatic for you too.
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+1 I agree, why would you not have the fine motor skill of releasing the slide with the slide stop, but would have the skill for trigger prep, trigger break and sight alignment. All of those are practiced until they are second nature, so should using the slide stop
Well if you carry a snubby or a Glock with a preban mag that hold 15 rounds... there is a very low probability you'll need to use the slide stop for a reload anyway.
I also use the slide stop for reloads. For jams and feed issues I'd likely use my thumb and index to release the slide. I shoot/train a fair amount... if the opportunity comes up I'm confident I'll figure it out.
I also use the slide stop for reloads. For jams and feed issues I'd likely use my thumb and index to release the slide. I shoot/train a fair amount... if the opportunity comes up I'm confident I'll figure it out.
It depends on many factors:
If the gun is empty, I'll release the slide lock but manually bring the slide back - reducing wear-n-tear on the slide (at least I feel that it does, and if there's anything Governor Patrick has taught us, it's that feeeeeelings are king...)
If I'm reloading, I'll use the slide lock as well.
If I'm reloading my Kel-Tec, which doesn't have a slide release, I'll use my left (off-side) hand to move the slide into battery.
If the gun is empty, I'll release the slide lock but manually bring the slide back - reducing wear-n-tear on the slide (at least I feel that it does, and if there's anything Governor Patrick has taught us, it's that feeeeeelings are king...)
If I'm reloading, I'll use the slide lock as well.
If I'm reloading my Kel-Tec, which doesn't have a slide release, I'll use my left (off-side) hand to move the slide into battery.
I'm sorry, but this is completely unsubstantiated bunk. You won't be able operate the slide stop but you will be able to operate the trigger?
Explain to me, exactly, what constitutes a fine motor skill and what constitutes a gross motor skill? Which muscles are in play when operating the slide stop that are not in play when slingshoting the slide? When hitting the slide stop with my left thumb, I merely press in and down from where my thumb naturally rests in my two-handed grip. To slingshot the slide, I have to change the angle of my left hand, grip the slide correctly, pull it back all the way and release -- if I release too soon, then it won't work. But that is somehow less complicated than pushing down on the slide stop?
People keep repeating this mantra over an over, never making any pretense of proving its truth, as if repetition alone will prove it.
I don't have to think about hitting the slide stop. I don't have to look for it. I don't have to feel for it. I'm no master class shooter, but it is automatic for me, and with a good slide stop in the correct position and a bit of practice, it can be automatic for you too.
I concur with the foregoing and add:
While being unsure what a "fine motor skill" is and how it is distinguished from a "gross motor skill," I'm confident that recognizing and dealing with a failure to go into battery, on account of a buffered "sling shot" attempt, is also a "fine motor skill." And it is also a skill (of whatever sort) that will not have been practiced and become engrained as much the "skill" of hitting the slide stop to recharge the weapon.
I shoot bullseye and for a long time people told me to hold the trigger on the 1911 (if you have a beavertail safety, you cannot reach the hammer) and then release with the slide lock. Its supposed to protect the sear from the hammer bounce.
I had an AD and no longer do that.![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
I just let the slam home with the slide lock.
I had an AD and no longer do that.
I just let the slam home with the slide lock.
I shoot bullseye and for a long time people told me to hold the trigger on the 1911 (if you have a beavertail safety, you cannot reach the hammer) and then release with the slide lock. Its supposed to protect the sear from the hammer bounce.
I had an AD and no longer do that.
I just let the slam home with the slide lock.
Ouch. Holding the trigger pressed while dropping the slide is a standard test for disconnector function. It is supposed to be performed on an unloaded pistol.
On every 1911 I have seen pulling the slide back to sling shot it closed forces the slide lock down and out of position. Its not relying on gravity at all. In fact if you don't get the slide far enough back to push the lock out of the way, it stays locked.
I'm not sure about how the slide lock releases on any other guns, save the PPK, where a spring pushes it down.
AE
DickWanner
Banned
Neither, both my Glocks will close the slide on their own if I slam a full mag home on an empty chamber ![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
JimConway
Instructor
Closing the slide on a semi automatic
There are three ways to close a slide:
1. Use the slide stop
2. Use Sling Shot method
3. Grip the slide with the support hand with the Palm and the fingers.
The thumb should be pointed toward you.
I all of the mail line classes that I have attended, only one school recommends the slide stop. The only benefit to using the slide stop is speed, if all goes well. The down side is that slide stops are small and you could fumble it. If the gun is a battle pick up, you may not press it at all.
The two surest ways are methods #2 and #3, although I prefer #3, because it is the way that I rack the slide. Someone asked about the difference between fine and gross motor skills. The easiest way to explain is to think of them as "Dexterity = Fine" and "Strength = Gross". It is well documented that we will lose some of our fine (dexterity) motor skills in a life threatening event. Yes, your trigger finger is a fine motor skill. Why do you think that there so many missed shots in a fight.
The three ways that I listed above are ordered from fine (#1) to gross (#3) motor skills. The sling Shot is on the low end of the gross motor skills range.
Either #2 or #3 will work well, but please stop using the slide stop.
BTW, we only teach the #3 method.
Someone mentioned the effect that gravity has on the slingshot with the muzzle pointed down. That is foolish. The only power that is needed is the power of the compressed spring and that always works no matter where the muzzle is pointed
There are three ways to close a slide:
1. Use the slide stop
2. Use Sling Shot method
3. Grip the slide with the support hand with the Palm and the fingers.
The thumb should be pointed toward you.
I all of the mail line classes that I have attended, only one school recommends the slide stop. The only benefit to using the slide stop is speed, if all goes well. The down side is that slide stops are small and you could fumble it. If the gun is a battle pick up, you may not press it at all.
The two surest ways are methods #2 and #3, although I prefer #3, because it is the way that I rack the slide. Someone asked about the difference between fine and gross motor skills. The easiest way to explain is to think of them as "Dexterity = Fine" and "Strength = Gross". It is well documented that we will lose some of our fine (dexterity) motor skills in a life threatening event. Yes, your trigger finger is a fine motor skill. Why do you think that there so many missed shots in a fight.
The three ways that I listed above are ordered from fine (#1) to gross (#3) motor skills. The sling Shot is on the low end of the gross motor skills range.
Either #2 or #3 will work well, but please stop using the slide stop.
BTW, we only teach the #3 method.
Someone mentioned the effect that gravity has on the slingshot with the muzzle pointed down. That is foolish. The only power that is needed is the power of the compressed spring and that always works no matter where the muzzle is pointed
JimConway
Instructor
Glocks slides closing on their own
I am well aware that I can make the slide close on many different guns by pointing the muzzle somewhat upward and slamming a mag in.
The problem is whether you want to bet your life that a round has chambered and you are good to go. I have seen this happen many times and found, upon checking, that the chamber was empty.
I recommend, that if the slide goes forward, you should do a quick chamber check.
I am well aware that I can make the slide close on many different guns by pointing the muzzle somewhat upward and slamming a mag in.
The problem is whether you want to bet your life that a round has chambered and you are good to go. I have seen this happen many times and found, upon checking, that the chamber was empty.
I recommend, that if the slide goes forward, you should do a quick chamber check.
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