How long did your LTC-A take in your town???

You can bet too if he was slow on the uptake in even the slightest way that our famed barrister wouldn't have given him any quarter, either..... 🤣
Speaking of which, guess which two quarters in the 50 State Quarter series have guns depicted on the obverse?
 
Oh did not know that! So that makes it even weirder that towns take so long to get that info over to them. For example, I been hearing Attleboro takes about 9 months if not longer....
Wrentham is great. Attleboro is very good too, I haven’t heard any problems w Attleboro. I get mine in Wrentham but also have the option to get it in Attleboro since I own a business there. I write a fair amount of recommendation letters for people in Attleboro. Your friend was probably the exception rather than the rule, maybe he applied during Covid times or something. But it’s hard to beat Wrentham, the LT is very pro 2A.
 
You can bet too if he was slow on the uptake in even the slightest way that our famed barrister wouldn't have given him any quarter, either..... 🤣
Although I never discussed firearms with Bill (chief), I can imagine that he is just like his Brother who retired as deputy chief in my former MA town. Said deputy's position was that if you weren't statutorily DQ'd or a flipping a-hole, you got an unrestricted LTC. The whole family is in LE and good people.
 
Wrentham is great. Attleboro is very good too, I haven’t heard any problems w Attleboro. I get mine in Wrentham but also have the option to get it in Attleboro since I own a business there. I write a fair amount of recommendation letters for people in Attleboro. Your friend was probably the exception rather than the rule, maybe he applied during Covid times or something. But it’s hard to beat Wrentham, the LT is very pro 2A.
Yeah it was a friend's father who got his last year. But I also heard from another person that it was happening to others as well. But it probably was covid related reasons.
 
Long time watcher that never posts much. This thread is a bit out of date, but I thought I would update it.
Applied 9/16 and it arrived in the mail today (10/26) in northampton
Good news, thanks for sharing. I have since relocated to SW Texas... and we don't need know stank'n license or permit for that sort to thang down h'eah. Haha, but my MA permit will be coming up for renewal before long and I am not real sure I will bother with it, again.
 
Good news, thanks for sharing. I have since relocated to SW Texas... and we don't need know stank'n license or permit for that sort to thang down h'eah. Haha, but my MA permit will be coming up for renewal before long and I am not real sure I will bother with it, again.

You don't have the option of renewing it as It technically ceased to be valid when you took up out of state residence.

🐯
 
You don't have the option of renewing it as It technically ceased to be valid when you took up out of state residence.

🐯
Was the cat emoji intended to imply sarcasm?

Your statement is false. I challenge you to cite a law, court decision of official written claim by an agency that may, or may not, have authority to make such a declaration.

Please don't waste everyone's time with "I know it to be true", "It only stands to reason", "Someone in authority told me verbally" or the classic "I'd like to see you be the test case".
 
Was the cat emoji intended to imply sarcasm?

Your statement is false. I challenge you to cite a law, court decision of official written claim by an agency that may, or may not, have authority to make such a declaration.

Please don't waste everyone's time with "I know it to be true", "It only stands to reason", "Someone in authority told me verbally" or the classic "I'd like to see you be the test case".
A thought.
Does the law regarding drivers licenses actually say that it becomes invalid if you change your residence to another state?
My thinking is that if you change the circumstances, defined in the law, under which a license is issued (either DL or LTC), would that make either license invalid? Since there is a separate process, defined as a separate process in the law, for non-residents. Wouldn't a license issued under one paragraph be invalid once you no longer fix as being a person included under that paragraph? The law doesn't have to define words or phrases that are common usage. It is a resident of MA license and "resident of MA" has the common meaning of residing in MA, change that and it's no longer your license as you are not a resident of MA. I suppose this would leave the possibility that if you moved back to MA, and the license had not expired, and you had properly informed of the address changes, the license would become valid again.

Yes, there is an exception to the residency, that of having a business in MA, but the law addresses that so it's existence isn't relevant.
 
A thought.
Does the law regarding drivers licenses actually say that it becomes invalid if you change your residence to another state?
My thinking is that if you change the circumstances, defined in the law, under which a license is issued (either DL or LTC), would that make either license invalid? Since there is a separate process, defined as a separate process in the law, for non-residents. Wouldn't a license issued under one paragraph be invalid once you no longer fix as being a person included under that paragraph? The law doesn't have to define words or phrases that are common usage. It is a resident of MA license and "resident of MA" has the common meaning of residing in MA, change that and it's no longer your license as you are not a resident of MA. I suppose this would leave the possibility that if you moved back to MA, and the license had not expired, and you had properly informed of the address changes, the license would become valid again.

Yes, there is an exception to the residency, that of having a business in MA, but the law addresses that so it's existence isn't relevant.
You are "filling the blanks", not looking at the law and court decisions (or lack thereof). Since an expired LTC extends considerable protection in most cases, the system would only be dealing with a civil offense so chances of a case for this non-criminal offense even being brought are slim.

Expiring a MA LTC takes an administrative action and an LTC can indeed be expired for failure to file a change of address, but I have never heard of that happening.
 
Was the cat emoji intended to imply sarcasm?

It's in every post I have ever made here.

Your statement is false. I challenge you to cite a law, court decision of official written claim by an agency that may, or may not, have authority to make such a declaration.

Cool, but he is not going to be able to renew it, that was the point.

Please don't waste everyone's time with "I know it to be true", "It only stands to reason", "Someone in authority told me verbally" or the classic "I'd like to see you be the test case".

Wasn't (have never) going to say any of that and frankly this is just unnecessarily dickish.

🐯
 
A thought.
Does the law regarding drivers licenses actually say that it becomes invalid if you change your residence to another state?
My thinking is that if you change the circumstances, defined in the law, under which a license is issued (either DL or LTC), would that make either license invalid? Since there is a separate process, defined as a separate process in the law, for non-residents. Wouldn't a license issued under one paragraph be invalid once you no longer fix as being a person included under that paragraph? The law doesn't have to define words or phrases that are common usage. It is a resident of MA license and "resident of MA" has the common meaning of residing in MA, change that and it's no longer your license as you are not a resident of MA. I suppose this would leave the possibility that if you moved back to MA, and the license had not expired, and you had properly informed of the address changes, the license would become valid again.

Yes, there is an exception to the residency, that of having a business in MA, but the law addresses that so it's existence isn't relevant.

The problem with all that is residency is nebulous, and it has different legal parameters between common law, gun laws, federal law, car registration/insurance, and tax laws…. you can be a resident for some or none of those.

I’ve never heard of the parent state invalidating a DL due to someone “who ceased being a resident”.
 
Wasn't (have never) going to say any of that and frankly this is just unnecessarily dickish.
That was not directed at you personally, and if you took it that way, I offer my apologies.

This issue has been hashed out before, and the previous responses was various forms of the above arguments, so it was really directed at anyone who would reply, not you in particular.
 
You are "filling the blanks", not looking at the law and court decisions (or lack thereof). Since an expired LTC extends considerable protection in most cases, the system would only be dealing with a civil offense so chances of a case for this non-criminal offense even being brought are slim.

Expiring a MA LTC takes an administrative action and an LTC can indeed be expired for failure to file a change of address, but I have never heard of that happening.
Who said anything about expiring?
I think that's where your disconnect comes from, we are not talking about an expired/expiring LTC, simply that it isn't valid because the individual is no longer a member of the group, as defined by the law, to whom the law issuing a license is limited. Remember, the law makes everyone prohibited unless they fit in the defined group and follow the defined process, and get the defined license. In other words, the license doesn't grant you permission to have a gun, it gives you an exception to the law making possession a crime.

Look at a DL. Once you change your residence outside MA your old DL is no longer valid, it doesn't even matter if you get one in the other state. It's not expired, or revoked, just not valid.

Remember laws restrict, they don't grant permission. So the MA firearms laws start by saying everyone is guilty of the crime of possession, UNLESS they have an LTC. The LTC is an exception to the law. (I'm pretty sure I've heard you say something similar)
 
Who said anything about expiring?
I think that's where your disconnect comes from, we are not talking about an expired/expiring LTC, simply that it isn't valid because the individual is no longer a member of the group, as defined by the law, to whom the law issuing a license is limited. Remember, the law makes everyone prohibited unless they fit in the defined group and follow the defined process, and get the defined license. In other words, the license doesn't grant you permission to have a gun, it gives you an exception to the law making possession a crime.

Look at a DL. Once you change your residence outside MA your old DL is no longer valid, it doesn't even matter if you get one in the other state. It's not expired, or revoked, just not valid.

Remember laws restrict, they don't grant permission. So the MA firearms laws start by saying everyone is guilty of the crime of possession, UNLESS they have an LTC. The LTC is an exception to the law. (I'm pretty sure I've heard you say something similar)
Different problem- the "new" state will actually confiscate your old license and presumably actually send notification to the ma rmv to cancel that license.... the action is not initiated by some magic of changing residency it's practically a condition of getting a license in the other state which is a whole other ball game. Not to mention there's probably some chunk of federal b******* involved in that which the same cannot be said for gun licenses of any kind.....

ETA: Food For Thought.... I know attorneys that have driver's licenses from other states and don't have a mass one even though they clearly have some residency here..... not that it means anything but if a couple of my attorney buddies don't think it's "dangerous" then it probably isn't.

On the same token one of them has his cars registered here but has a DL from out of state....
 
Different problem- the "new" state will actually confiscate your old license and presumably actually send notification to the ma rmv to cancel that license.... the action is not initiated by some magic of changing residency it's practically a condition of getting a license in the other state which is a whole other ball game. Not to mention there's probably some chunk of federal b******* involved in that which the same cannot be said for gun licenses of any kind.....
I specifically mentioned not getting a DL in the new state to stay away from this. My example of your DL being invalid is not contingent on getting a DL in the new state or the states communicating to cancel your old DL.
The DL is issued to the person residing at the address in the state. Once you are no longer that person at that residence, the license is invalid as it pertains to you (residence is defined however is applicable to a DL). Even within the state, if your DL has an address on it (and on record with the DMV), and you have never resided at that address, then the DL is invalid. The fact that you are holding it isn't relevant.
ETA: Food For Thought.... I know attorneys that have driver's licenses from other states and don't have a mass one even though they clearly have some residency here..... not that it means anything but if a couple of my attorney buddies don't think it's "dangerous" then it probably isn't.
I assume they found a way to meet the residency requirements of the other state, I don't see an issue here. What residency is varies.
On the same token one of them has his cars registered here but has a DL from out of state....
Different states have different requirements for DLs and registration. Generally speaking a DL requires residency, but how they define that varies. Again I assume they met the requirements for each of these. But in the event that they didn't wouldn't you say that the item wasn't valid.
 
Look at a DL. Once you change your residence outside MA your old DL is no longer valid, it doesn't even matter if you get one in the other state. It's not expired, or revoked, just not valid.
I don't believe that is true. There are charges that can be brought for failure to obtain a new license with the statutory time limit after moving, however, I don't believe that someone who is guilty of not getting a in-state license with 30 days (or whatever the limit is) can be charged and convicted of driving without a valid license. Do you have any specific info to the contrary? Can you provide any reference to law than renders a license invalid under the circumstances you describe? I do agree it may be possible to revoke a driving license for failure to switch to one in your new state of residence, but that would be the result of an action by the government - not the administrative equivalent of spontaneous combustion.

My request is simple: Please provide a reference to the law that makes my MA drivers license invalid if I move to another address or state and do not file a change of address. You have offered a "proof by assertion" but nothing to confirm the veracity of your claim. The test for "validity" is simple - if the license is invalid, one can be successfully charged and convicted of unlicensed driving.

A MA LTC is valid until suspended, revoked or expired. An expired LTC is forever valid for protection against charges for carry/possession without an LTC provided one has not become a prohibited person; had their LTC revoked for any reason other than failure to file a change of address; or applied for a renewal and been denied.
 
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I don't believe that is true. There are charges that can be brought for failure to obtain a new license with the statutory time limit after moving, however, I don't believe that someone who is guilty of not getting a in-state license with 30 days (or whatever the limit is) can be charged and convicted of driving without a valid license. Do you have any specific info to the contrary? Can you provide any reference to law than renders a license invalid under the circumstances you describe? I do agree it may be possible to revoke a driving license for failure to switch to one in your new state of residence, but that would be the result of an action by the government - not the administrative equivalent of spontaneous combustion.

My request is simple: Please provide a reference to the law that makes my MA drivers license invalid if I move to another address or state and do not file a change of address. You have offered a "proof by assertion" but nothing to confirm the veracity of your claim. The test for "validity" is simple - if the license is invalid, one can be successfully charged and convicted of unlicensed driving.
OK.
If you move to NH and do nothing with your former-state-of-residence DL, that DL is not revoked or cancelled, but after 60 days it is invalid in NH.
A MA LTC is valid until suspended, revoked or expired. An expired LTC is forever valid for protection against charges for carry/possession without an LTC provided one has not become a prohibited person; had their LTC revoked for any reason other than failure to file a change of address; or applied for a renewal and been denied.
My assertion is simple and self evident, finding an example in the US would require legal resources that I do not have access to, but you do. So surely you can back up your assertion with a case that was dismissed because the accused carried in MA on a resident LTC after he has relocated out of state (considering some kind of grace period exists).

Simple facts, I haven't heard any dispute of these:
The LTC is issued to the person identified on the LTC, and in the application. This identity include the persons name and address.
Licenses are issued under one section for residents, and under another section for non-residents. Proving these to be distinct and different groups. And the license issued to each is different.
You are entitled to a license under the section you qualify for. Which includes both your residence status as well as other potential disqualifiers.
A license is only valid so long as you qualify. The act of revocation is recognition of the invalidity.

Your assertion that validity and revocation are the same, in addition to be incorrect, would allow a convicted violent offender to have a valid LTC until the paperwork caught up with him. My position would be that the LTC becomes invalid on conviction, even though verifying and documenting this may be difficult until official revocation takes place.

Consider the other side. If a PO takes possession of you LTC, but no Revocation has been issued, can you be changed with possessing a firearm - Revoked?
 
OK.
If you move to NH and do nothing with your former-state-of-residence DL, that DL is not revoked or cancelled, but after 60 days it is invalid in NH.

My assertion is simple and self evident, finding an example in the US would require legal resources that I do not have access to, but you do. So surely you can back up your assertion with a case that was dismissed because the accused carried in MA on a resident LTC after he has relocated out of state (considering some kind of grace period exists).

Simple facts, I haven't heard any dispute of these:
The LTC is issued to the person identified on the LTC, and in the application. This identity include the persons name and address.
Licenses are issued under one section for residents, and under another section for non-residents. Proving these to be distinct and different groups. And the license issued to each is different.
You are entitled to a license under the section you qualify for. Which includes both your residence status as well as other potential disqualifiers.
A license is only valid so long as you qualify. The act of revocation is recognition of the invalidity.

Your assertion that validity and revocation are the same, in addition to be incorrect, would allow a convicted violent offender to have a valid LTC until the paperwork caught up with him. My position would be that the LTC becomes invalid on conviction, even though verifying and documenting this may be difficult until official revocation takes place.

Consider the other side. If a PO takes possession of you LTC, but no Revocation has been issued, can you be changed with possessing a firearm - Revoked?
several users have provided personal experience that heir LTCs continued to be valid in the system with their new, out of state addresses. I can't imagine a better proof than the FRB's own inquiry tool...
 
several users have provided personal experience that heir LTCs continued to be valid in the system with their new, out of state addresses. I can't imagine a better proof than the FRB's own inquiry tool...
My MA LTC was still valid when I moved to NH in the 90s.... it was a business LTC
I know it's been discussed but I don't recall anyone with first hand experience, just the other guy. Not saying it didn't happen, just would like to heart from someone it happened to, that didn't have a business in MA. Can you link me to them?
 
My MA LTC was still valid when I moved to NH in the 90s.... it was a business LTC
I know it's been discussed but I don't recall anyone with first hand experience, just the other guy. Not saying it didn't happen, just would like to heart from someone it happened to, that didn't have a business in MA. Can you link me to them?
IIRC, @Len-2A Training said his was still active, with his NH address, not that long ago. Pretty sure at least one other escapee to NH has said the same.
 
My MA LTC was still valid when I moved to NH in the 90s.... it was a business LTC
I know it's been discussed but I don't recall anyone with first hand experience, just the other guy. Not saying it didn't happen, just would like to heart from someone it happened to, that didn't have a business in MA. Can you link me to them?
My (and my Wife's) Resident LTC is still valid. I also hold a NR LTC and the Director of FRB told me that both being valid would not be an issue and it isn't. I received a renewal notice for my machine gun license before it expired this year and it was sent to my NH address. All proper notifications were made and I knew that my former PD in MA would not request an administrative expiration prior to the LTCs (and MG license) naturally expire.
 
OK.
If you move to NH and do nothing with your former-state-of-residence DL, that DL is not revoked or cancelled, but after 60 days it is invalid in NH.

Poor example, that's actually what EOPS would love to have for LTCs, but such an analog doesn't exist in MA for LTCs at all. There is no auto-destruct mandate conditional or
otherwise in MGL. That's why EOPS doesn't expire or revoke them even after a person leaves. Becuase it can't.

My assertion is simple and self evident, finding an example in the US would require legal resources that I do not have access to, but you do. So surely you can back up your assertion with a case that was dismissed because the accused carried in MA on a resident LTC after he has relocated out of state (considering some kind of grace period exists).

Trying to prove something that never happens is difficult. You would have to have a cop dumb enough to arrest someone with an LTC and then charge them with unlawful possession. Then you would also have to have a prosecutor dumb enough to apply the charges on top of that. There is no "Dismissal" because the charges would never make it that far. Or they would retain the "other" charges if applicable and immediately drop the gun one because the LTC nulls it out.

@nstassel may or may not be aware of some cases where this sort of thing happened, but if I was going to make a WAG the unexpired LTC made those charges weak/unusable.

Also maybe you can explain this, if the license is magically invalid upon self-ratting then why isn't it mandated in the law that you have to surrender your LTC to your issuing authority or EOPS? Surely if the law mandated that they would tell you to do it. But they don't, because.... it doesn't. [rofl]

Not sure how hard that is to understand.

Simple facts, I haven't heard any dispute of these:
The LTC is issued to the person identified on the LTC, and in the application. This identity include the persons name and address.
Licenses are issued under one section for residents, and under another section for non-residents. Proving these to be distinct and different groups. And the license issued to each is different.

Doesn't mean anything, unlike your NH example theres no example in MGL which dictates destruction or automatic nullity of an MA LTC.

It has to do with the state of existence of the person at the time of application. That's what MGL is asking, nothing more. It doesn't say "if you leave this explodes".

Also there are people walking around with "resident" LTCs with non MA addresses on them. This happens either from people with business LTCs (which technically are "resident" ltcs, even though the people dont live here) or I would bet anything nowadays if the original issuing authority isnt c***s and requests a replacement license for a lost one, they will get another license with the address of record on it, wherever it actually is.

You are entitled to a license under the section you qualify for. Which includes both your residence status as well as other potential disqualifiers.

Lol yes at the time of application.

A license is only valid so long as you qualify. The act of revocation is recognition of the invalidity.

Lol a license is valid until its revoked or suspended. Period.

Your assertion that validity and revocation are the same, in addition to be incorrect, would allow a convicted violent offender to have a valid LTC until the paperwork caught up with him. My position would be that the LTC becomes invalid on conviction, even though verifying and documenting this may be difficult until official revocation takes place.

Apprenlty you've never heard of entrapment by estoppel.

Lol it is 100% valid until or unless some state actor revokes or suspends it. [rofl] Your position is garbage. There are tons (actually likely thousands, after GCA1998 when the laws changed) of people who have lost LTC and FID post conviction because of records problems, none of them get rapped for unlawful possession unless they failed to surrender thier guns at that point of revocation or suspension. A lawyer with any experience is going to go "Reasonable person principle, get f***ed". A reasonable person assumes that if a state actor issued them a license that it is legitimate. Thats also cute thing called "Entrapment by Estoppel". Because the state gave someone a license and didnt take it away during period of time X, it is presumed that is a form of the state telling the person "Posession of X is okay" . You cant just issue a license, then sneakily come arrest them for unlawful possession after the
fact because you were too lazy to take the license away or revoke/suspend / notify of such thing.

It's no different than when NICS does a delayed denial on someone and then the ATF goes to the house to get the gun. They never arrest the person if the person surrenders the
gun (absent OTHER offenses like an open warrant or something). Why? because the act of "proceeding" them to begin with is effectively LE telling you "you're okay". You can't tell someone its OK for you to buy a gun and then arrest them for that conduct later without triggering an estoppel defense. (and yes, you can argue later that they may have lied on fhte 4473 or something but good luck proving intent on that unless the guys DQing offense happened a week ago. )

Find me a piece of case law where a guy got busted for "carrying concealed firearm" or similar in any state where the actor was actually legally DQed but still (somehow) possessed a valid, non revoked, or non suspended license. You can't. You can't use "gnomish orbital legal mysticism" to automatically nullify a license. No matter how badly you want it to be true.

Consider the other side. If a PO takes possession of you LTC, but no Revocation has been issued, can you be changed with possessing a firearm - Revoked?

No. Some action must be taken by the IA. A suspension, or revocation. now normally if something bad happens, you get arrested, and this action has already happened while you
were marinating in the can before arraignment. Then the judge says "bro u cant touch guns legally" and obvious thing is obvious.

For example with that attorney detained in springfield some 15, 20 yrs ago? I don't think his LTC was ever suspended or revoked even though his gun and LTC were confiscated by the douchebag LEO that got all bent because the guy was OCing. He was never formally arrested or charged with anything either. And I'm pretty sure that guy probably owned more than one gun and didnt magically get cleaned out either.
 
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