• If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership  The benefits pay for the membership many times over.

How many NES members are now considered Felons? ATF AR/AK pistol brace fiasco.

T-Unit said:
lol, I tell them to f&ck off right back.

And, you know, if the millions of owners who also have braces did the same, WTF is the ATF gonna do? Arrest them all? Gonna round people up?
Click to expand...

I don't think that they would go for drastic measures, just more of wishy washy terrorist tactics (like arm braces are ok on Sundays, if you got Dr. note and it's preban that you have to prove) so that you don't know if you are a 100% felon, 80% felon or 0% felon. Uncertainty and fear are better for them than threat of certain prison. They may also add some prize money for gunowners to snitch on each other to drive the terror factor further. At the end of the day only the most brazen ones would bring stocks to the range, over the years the demand will fade and then they just confiscate them when value hits magic Faker "they are something like $200, no big deal, peasants" mark.
 
Racenet said:
That is exactly what MA does to get firearms approved for sale in the state. Oh, the blued P226 is approved, but the olive one isn't, because it wasn't submitted for approval. There was a write up from Sig many years ago about this.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY!!!!
 
Old Toad said:
So ATF makes a new "rule". Is it a Law? No.
Click to expand...

but it's good enough to swat your house and throw you in prison for 10+years and bankrupt your life through legal expenses. One day Mora wakes up and whatever personality of her bipolar disorder takes over, she decides that she will crush anyone here and there is no recourse. You can try your luck in liberal court or sue for legal expenses, but "public servants" somehow have immunity and you are the only one need to prove your innocence at outrageous expense.

At this point it's easier to assume that we are under hostile occupation and rule of law is non-existent. Your only crime is getting caught. We need to stop pretending that we can achieve justice by legal means or the Constitution is the law of the land.
 
How many here have received letters and/or visits from the ATF about pistols with braces, stating that they must be surrendered or turned over for evaluation?
 
Here we go. Draft from the ATF:
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...175224/SBCriteria.AS_SUBMITTED.pdf?1608175224

From the FPC:
BREAKING: ATF to Issue Guidance on “Stabilizing Braces”
1) The draft document does not appear to reflect a new “ban” on pistol braces or firearms with such devices. The ATF, evidently, is not indicating that the mere presence of a brace on a pistol automatically converts the firearm into one under the purview of the National Firearms Act (“NFA”). (Indeed, the ATF has no authority to declare accessories like pistol braces to be NFA components, though the agency’s previous conduct provides little reassurance.)

2) The draft document instead purports to be intended to inform the public on how brace-equipped firearms will be examined in the future. Based on the criteria set forth in the draft document, it appears that the ATF would take something of a ‘totality of the circumstances’ approach in determining whether a specific brace-equipped pistol is a ‘short-barreled’ firearm regulated under the NFA. These criteria include: the firearm’s type, caliber, weight, and length, the design of the brace itself, whether the firearm can be properly aimed when using the attachment as a brace, and whether an optic that cannot properly be used one-handed is present (i.e., something that suggests intent). The agency also indicates that it will observe the marketing of firearms and accessories, as well as other more subjective factors.

3) Importantly, the draft document recognizes that most people with braced firearms have acted in good faith. It suggests that the agency seeks to establish a procedure by which people who already have firearms that may fall under the purview of the NFA, and who wish to take advantage of registering them as NFA firearms to obtain the legal protections of such, may potentially do so without payment of the associated tax.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Boris said:
but it's good enough to swat your house and throw you in prison for 10+years and bankrupt your life through legal expenses. One day Mora wakes up and whatever personality of her bipolar disorder takes over, she decides that she will crush anyone here and there is no recourse. You can try your luck in liberal court or sue for legal expenses, but "public servants" somehow have immunity and you are the only one need to prove your innocence at outrageous expense.

At this point it's easier to assume that we are under hostile occupation and rule of law is non-existent. Your only crime is getting caught. We need to stop pretending that we can achieve justice by legal means or the Constitution is the law of the land.
Click to expand...
Yep, the focus should be on not getting caught. We passed the point of our laws being moral long ago.
 
Dennis in MA said:
I'm looking to on-load an SBR just to make it all moot to me. I've got a spare pre-ban AR. For $200 I can get rid of all of this S-word. It isn't like I don't already have numerous government files on me already. LOL
Click to expand...

The leaked document mentions a waiver of the $200 tax to register an already owned pistol with a brace into an SBR. I wonder how you are supposed to prove that you already had it? The whole NFA is bullshit but if you were on the fence about turning a braced pistol into an SBR, at least it won't cost $200. I thought about it in the past but decided a stock and VFG wasn't worth the hassle and $200 to me.
 
I did a whole bunch of NFA registrations back before the 41P changes, I might add on more SBRs if the tax is waived...
JenkkiMike said:
The leaked document mentions a waiver of the $200 tax to register an already owned pistol with a brace into an SBR. I wonder how you are supposed to prove that you already had it? The whole NFA is bullshit but if you were on the fence about turning a braced pistol into an SBR, at least it won't cost $200. I thought about it in the past but decided a stock and VFG wasn't worth the hassle and $200 to me.
Click to expand...
I doubt they're going to request proof that you already had a brace on that pistol before processing the tax-waived application, gotta assume the end game is to have everything on the NFA registry, and this gets them that much closer to the goal. I'd be sorely tempted to SBR random pistols, anything I bought from a now-out-of-business dealer.

Heck, you could probably submit the serial # of a random AR-15 rifle (manufactured and initially purchased in rifle configuration) and ATF would process it, though I suspect I'd get some scrutiny trying to Form-1 SBR a bullpup under the amnesty (something like an AUG for which bare receivers are not really a thing and which can't take an arm brace).
 
JenkkiMike said:
The leaked document mentions a waiver of the $200 tax to register an already owned pistol with a brace into an SBR. I wonder how you are supposed to prove that you already had it? The whole NFA is bullshit but if you were on the fence about turning a braced pistol into an SBR, at least it won't cost $200. I thought about it in the past but decided a stock and VFG wasn't worth the hassle and $200 to me.
Click to expand...


OR. . . . . . . . just take the brace off. LOL

I think my brace cost $95. Given the hassle-factor, I might just dump the thing.

But even with the latest links, it doesn't look like they are going after the whole thing - only you need to do better than wink/nod to the whole pistol-brace aspect. Like, if you put a short-eye-relief scope on that AR, you're gonna have a bad time.
 
Tomorrow you can offer comments on the proposal. See this link:

www.federalregister.gov

Objective Factors for Classifying Weapons with “Stabilizing Braces”

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (``ATF'') is publishing the objective factors it considers when evaluating firearms with an attached stabilizing brace to determine whether they are considered firearms under the National Firearms Act (``NFA'') and/or the Gun Control Act...
www.federalregister.gov www.federalregister.gov

Direct to the pdf here: https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2020-27857.pdf

The comment period will be open for two weeks only starting Dec 18 - make sure you add thoughts as it will impact us going forward
.
 

Attachments

  • ATF Braces 2020-27857.pdf
    252.8 KB · Views: 1
Still tempted to SBR random pistols, anything bought from a defunct dealer in the last 20 years (meaning ATF already has the serial number recorded).
wiryone1 said:
Boghog1 said:
Anyone looking to offload a brace?
Click to expand...
I like braced pistols and SBRs. Especially SBRs with free registration!
Click to expand...
Doesn't say anywhere that you needs a commercial brace, or even a functional one. Would they even know if you didn't have a brace, or just had one to share across all your "pistols"?

I've done multiple Form-1's; never provided details beyond make/model/serial/caliber/length. And if they do start asking for photos, I've got empty wrapping paper rolls, duct tape, and if I'm feeling fancy, black spray paint.
image.jpg
 
Kevin_NH said:
Still tempted to SBR random pistols, anything bought from a defunct dealer in the last 20 years (meaning ATF already has the serial number recorded).

Doesn't say anywhere that you needs a commercial brace, or even a functional one. Would they even know if you didn't have a brace, or just had one to share across all your "pistols"?

I've done multiple Form-1's; never provided details beyond make/model/serial/caliber/length. And if they do start asking for photos, I've got empty wrapping paper rolls, duct tape, and if I'm feeling fancy, black spray paint.
image.jpg
Click to expand...

you can't share it, that's like sand in ATF's vagina. Registration leads to confiscation.
 
Mrbiron said:
But if you SBR, can it go back to a pistol?

I’m new and dumb, bear with me.
Click to expand...

My understanding is you cannot "undo" an NFA designation. Once the ATF defines it or you register it as a SBR, that firearm is an SBR forever.

This is why you should only build pistols.

This of course ignores the fact that the ATF erroneously defined and AR lower as a firearm. Which is why they dropped that case a while back because the court was going to shove it up their ass.
 

Similar threads

Federal Judge Rules Millions Of NRA Members Exempt From ATF Pistol Brace Rule
Replies
12
Views
526
1919FAN
1919FAN
ATF new report shows FFLs are not the problem
2
Replies
47
Views
995
SkilledSovereignty
S
Status of Pistol brace ruling?
Replies
0
Views
115
TomMalthus
T
ATF Cries They are to Small
2
Replies
49
Views
1K
Dadstoys
Dadstoys
Missouri law being passed: If you home school, your home is now considered a school and you can't own guns
Replies
17
Views
608
Nhusa
N
Back
Top Bottom