How School Shootings Are Changing the Design of American Classrooms

[MaverickNH]

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/education/school-shooting-architecture-classroom-design-17b104ad?st=dxtcw45f68lagy2&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

There’s a mixed bag of comments in this WSJ article- some discussing design features /implementation and others whining about guns, as expected. But far less anti-gun than WaPo, NYT, etc.

”These design ideas are creating an unsettling siege mentality with ill-defined enemies at the gate. Is that helping or cranking up our problem with societal violence? Couldn’t these new designs be perceived as new challenges to be met by would- be shooters?”

”It is a sign of a deformed society when there is more action reforming class room design rather reforming laws to curb the slaughter of school children. You will see a lot of readers gas light about mental illness and family values. However, the facts and data have shown other countries with similar rates of mental illness have drastically lower mass shootings and gun violence deaths. I wonder why?”

”Just think about how insane this all is in terms of our society. When I was in grade school in the 50s and 60s, we did "duck and cover" drills out of fear of Russian nukes, but no one ever gave the slightest thought to the possibility of people with guns walking into schools and killing people. Now our focus is on fortifying our schools to stop the shooters. People walking around with guns who want to invade schools and kill kids is the norm. That's how far we've fallen as a country.”[/i}

”Only in a sick, deranged society that for some bizarre , inexplicable reason is more in love with guns than the lives of students, is it necessary to turn schools into armed fortresses. No other country has this problem, yet we think we are the greatest of all in all respects.”

 

[jkelly1229]

Lol... back in my day we sheltered from nukes under our desks... now these snowflakes want resistant glass and security officers

Pussification of America

 

[HorizontalHunter]

It’s really crazy to think that when I was a kid 40 odd years ago the rifles stood in a corner in the closet and the ammo was on the shelf above and there were no school shootings. We could also take a rifle or shotgun to school in the car for an afternoon hunt after class.

Now we have more laws, less freedoms and school shootings. Laws and classroom design will not fix a societal mental problem.

 

[SKumar]

Gotta make sure the "heroes" are well hydrated next time one happens

 

[oldguy68]

Gotta make sure the "heroes" are well hydrated next time one happens

View attachment 885987

Hey, it gets hot standing around with all that tacti-cool gear on!
If they just rushed in and shot the perp from the get go. They would all be riding back to the station in their a/c equipped vehicles by the time this pic was taken.

 

[Uzi2]

Two 3/4 inch sized deadbolts on the inside of the door of the classroom and an armed teacher in the room would stop almost any attack on any classroom.
The article is just another anti gun propaganda piece, trying to socially engineer the thought processes of people.

 

[Picton]

Two 3/4 inch sized deadbolts on the inside of the door of the classroom and an armed teacher in the room would stop almost any attack on any classroom.
The article is just another anti gun propaganda piece, trying to socially engineer the thought processes of people.

FIFY.

Any return fire is likely to make the shooter flee until he's neutralized.

As I've pointed out to my employers, there's no need to spend money on this. Just let LTC holders carry their own shit, then let the press report that's happening.

 

[dcmdon]

Gotta make sure the "heroes" are well hydrated next time one happens

View attachment 885987

Please don't tell me that photo is from Uvalde.

 

[Mellero47]

Lol... back in my day we sheltered from nukes under our desks... now these snowflakes want resistant glass and security officers

Pussification of America

Do you think it's the students asking to turn their schools into prisons?

 

[Davidk]

It takes a staggering level of stupidity to believe that eliminating guns from law abiding citizens will stop murderers

 

[Picton]

Do you think it's the students asking to turn their schools into prisons?

This. It ain't. It's ignorant adults who don't know what they don't know.

I'm in a building less than a decade old, meaning it was designed well after school shootings were A Thing. I remember the principal during the planning phases telling us each classroom would be equipped with bulletproof glass. I called bullshit on that one, and it soon turned out that she didn't know the difference between "safety glass" and "bulletproof glass."

The people making these decisions aren't trained in ballistics, and by and large they aren't equipped to think in terms of security other than in the most rudimentary way. If they're training school administrators in the meaning of hardened targets, I've not seen any evidence of that.

 

[FalArAk]

Please don't tell me that photo is from Uvalde.

Listening to children die is dehydrating?

 

[Uzi2]

FIFY.

Any return fire is likely to make the shooter flee until he's neutralized.

As I've pointed out to my employers, there's no need to spend money on this. Just let LTC holders carry their own shit, then let the press report that's happening.

No, you didn't fix anything for me.

Why would you eliminate the use of a deadbolt to secure a classroom from the inside when the threat is on the outside?

If every non involved classroom is immediately locked securely from the inside, the only place a shooter has to occupy is the corridor or a bathroom.

Barrier type security measures are set up in layers that either stop the intrusion or slow the progress. The first layer would be to deter or stop initial access to the building with automatic building wide notification of a breech, the second layer is securing the internal doors of all the occupied rooms within from further access by the intruder by deadbolting the classroom doors from the inside.
The third layer is the armed personnel ready to confront the intruder should they try to breech the internal doors to classrooms.

 

[dcmdon]

Schools are already built of masonry. Most of the work is already done. You just need a secure door, without a window that has multiple swing bolt locations that can't be figured out from the outside. If doors are out-swing and equipped with safety hinges, then they can't be kicked in.

 

[jkelly1229]

Do you think it's the students asking to turn their schools into prisons?

Act like animals get treated that way.

You can lock every door and have a safety officer without having a prison

 

[boilermaker]

Just for clarification, the quotes the OP posted are from comments left by whomever and not part of the article.

 

[Picton]

Why would you eliminate the use of a deadbolt to secure a classroom from the inside when the threat is on the outside?

Because it costs money. End of story.

I've been talking to administrators and school committees about this very topic for twenty years. As soon as something costs more, they shut down.

 

[jkelly1229]

Because it costs money. End of story.

I've been talking to administrators and school committees about this very topic for twenty years. As soon as something costs more, they shut down.

That's false. Or at least none of the schools my wife has worked at have balked at a simple measure like this.

This will be her 4th school in 5 years ranging from a private school in the northeast to bum f*** florida...to a city in georgia now to a small town in ga

 

[Picton]

That's false. Or at least none of the schools my wife has worked at have balked at a simple measure like this.

This will be her 4th school in 5 years ranging from a private school in the northeast to bum f*** florida...to a city in georgia now to a small town in ga

Were they older buildings? Those end up getting retrofitted. Modern schools, at least all the ones I’ve ever been in, have deadbolts built in.

Deadbolts make sense. That’s why schools have them. Putting in two per door as suggested by @Uzi2 is not likely to be a plan the school committee will want to pay for.

 

[jkelly1229]

Were they older buildings? Those end up getting retrofitted. Modern schools, at least all the ones I’ve ever been in, have deadbolts built in.

Deadbolts make sense. That’s why schools have them. Putting in two per door as suggested by @Uzi2 is not likely to be a plan the school committee will want to pay for.

None were newer than say 1990

 

[Uzi2]

Were they older buildings? Those end up getting retrofitted. Modern schools, at least all the ones I’ve ever been in, have deadbolts built in.

Deadbolts make sense. That’s why schools have them. Putting in two per door as suggested by @Uzi2 is not likely to be a plan the school committee will want to pay for.

Yes, deadbolts do make sense and not all schools have them.

And having one on the upper and lower third of any door is going to make that door a little more impervious to being kicked in or pried outward.....it's simple mechanics.

These school committees spend money having multiple useless meetings to discuss the issue. They act like the costs are coming or would come out their own personal pockets!! There's PLENTY of grant money available to fund the hardening of schools.

Adding locks to the INSIDE of a door doesn't make a school a prison, it makes it a secure facility from outside intrusion.

Prisons are locked from the OUTSIDE to prevent escape of those contained within.

 

[Drix]

Kids aren't even going to notice architectural choices to make them safer unless it's pointed out.

How many of them think of the current building codes in a building? Shit I bet you 90% of them don't even notice exit signs.

 

[Picton]

Yes, deadbolts do make sense and not all schools have them.

And having one on the upper and lower third of any door is going to make that door a little more impervious to being kicked in or pried outward.....it's simple mechanics.

These school committees spend money having multiple useless meetings to discuss the issue. They act like the costs are coming or would come out their own personal pockets!! There's PLENTY of grant money available to fund the hardening of schools.

Adding locks to the INSIDE of a door doesn't make a school a prison, it makes it a secure facility from outside intrusion.

Prisons are locked from the OUTSIDE to prevent escape of those contained within.

You should be showing up at Public Comment during your town's next school committee meeting and telling them all this. You're not wrong, but my prediction is you'll get nowhere. I never said it's a bad idea. I said your town is not going to want to spend money on it.

My hallway has eleven classroom doors. There are six hallways in my building, plus about twenty additional doors on each of three floors. That's 126 classroom doors, and that's just in one building. And minus offices, utility rooms, etc; all should be hardened similarly to be effective. I'm not counting connecting doors, and many of those have zero deadbolts right now.

I have no idea how much it costs to buy an institutional lockset and have it installed, but I'd assume it's at least $100 per door (I can see it being double or triple that, but I don't really have a clue). For easy math, we'll say $100. That's $12,600 minimum for my building, and a couple hundred thousand overall for the whole district. Minimum.

That's not chump change, especially considering what you'd hear from the school committee:

1. The chances of a school shooting are tiny; that's too much to spend.
2. Each door already has a deadbolt. Why add another?
3. We're laying off staff already this year. There's no excess money.

By all means, search for grants. But be aware that many school systems (and almost all towns) pay someone to search for grants; they're probably better at it than you are.

 

[Uzi2]

You should be showing up at Public Comment during your town's next school committee meeting and telling them all this. You're not wrong, but my prediction is you'll get nowhere. I never said it's a bad idea. I said your town is not going to want to spend money on it.

My hallway has eleven classroom doors. There are six hallways in my building, plus about twenty additional doors on each of three floors. That's 126 classroom doors, and that's just in one building. And minus offices, utility rooms, etc; all should be hardened similarly to be effective. I'm not counting connecting doors, and many of those have zero deadbolts right now.

I have no idea how much it costs to buy an institutional lockset and have it installed, but I'd assume it's at least $100 per door (I can see it being double or triple that, but I don't really have a clue). For easy math, we'll say $100. That's $12,600 minimum for my building, and a couple hundred thousand overall for the whole district. Minimum.

That's not chump change, especially considering what you'd hear from the school committee:

1. The chances of a school shooting are tiny; that's too much to spend.
2. Each door already has a deadbolt. Why add another?
3. We're laying off staff already this year. There's no excess money.

By all means, search for grants. But be aware that many school systems (and almost all towns) pay someone to search for grants; they're probably better at it than you are.

You lost me at "You're not wrong".

All the rest is superfluous BS.

The money they save laying off a few staff would likely pay good chunk of the expenses....it's a good trade off in my opinion.

Chances of a school shooting are just as possible as anything else and nobody has a crystal ball that can predict one. Having the ability to diminish the effects of one with the simple installation of deadbolts inside classrooms ONCE, improves conditions permanently.

 

[Picton]

You lost me at "You're not wrong".

All the rest is superfluous BS.

The money they save laying off a few staff would likely pay good chunk of the expenses....it's a good trade off in my opinion.

Chances of a school shooting are just as possible as anything else and nobody has a crystal ball that can predict one. Having the ability to diminish the effects of one with the simple installation of deadbolts inside classrooms ONCE, improves conditions permanently.

You should be showing up at Public Comment during your town's next school committee meeting and telling them all this.

Posting here is unlikely to help.

 

[Uzi2]

Posting here is unlikely to help.

Posting here allows me to show others how ridiculous your rationale is with regard to the situation.

 

[Picton]

Posting here allows me to show others how ridiculous your rationale is with regard to the situation.

Lol. It's not "my rationale." It's experience trying to deal with this very issue for many years in more than one town.

But you feel free to join me. I welcome your help.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I hope OP likes the new “residents” who will be his neighbors.
I’m not sure anything could get me back living in that state.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

You lost me at "You're not wrong".

All the rest is superfluous BS.

The money they save laying off a few staff would likely pay good chunk of the expenses....it's a good trade off in my opinion.

Have you seen all the news stories lately about the school districts crying about laying off bunches of staff they hired with COVID money, even though they weren’t supposed to do that, now that the COVID money has dried up?

They are screaming about lack of staff and class size now. No way they are budgeting spending on lock sets for all the necessary doors as @Picton said.

Wait till all the illegal ESL kids are plugged into those classes.

 

[HARRYM]

Until they do a study on how Democrats and Leftists have created a rise in crime in America they can design all the schools they want as it won't change a damn thing.