How to identify and correct this aiming problem

ReluctantDecoy

ReluctantDecoy

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For reasons unknown, I always have issues hitting the lower left point on a 12x12 target. This example picture is just casually shooting a PPC off hand at only 15 yards. Nothing serious in terms of aiming/concentration. Just 1 shot a second or so. I can consistently group shots over each other for the most part on all the other target points. If I really concentration and go for precision, I usually bullseye at this close a range. Just not the lower left.

For more background info: Righty shooting a 9mm PPC 8" SBR conventionally with a red dot. I am left eye dominant, but use my right eye. This doesn't seem to present itself as much with irons. What does that mean? Is this my eye dominance issue? Why just that one point on the target?

20210425_151636 (1).jpg
 
There should be no difference on your target. Sign up for a Project Appleseed weekend and learn trigger control, natural point of aim, respiratory pause and follow through.
 
Have you tried using one of those "Shooting Corrections" chart to give you some feedback? Sometimes they can really help you diagnose the problem.

Here's the one I use with new shooters.

187121023_10223247784850501_704524009550248469_n.jpg

Seriously, tho, I agree with our esteemed Admin above. The Ball and Dummy drill can show you a lot about what you're doing to the gun at and immediately after trigger pull.
 
Re-adjust your footing.
Right handed/ left eye dominant? Your probably straining to keep the rifle there.

Plant your feet, level off with the rifle, close your eyes, then open them and see where the sights sit. Adjust your body from there.
 
moojpg2 said:
You're a freak. There's nothing that should cause this. Maybe it's mental.
Click to expand...

Maybe. Although, I swear the red dot is perfectly aligned to provide similar accuracy as seen on the other pips, so I have no idea what's actually happening. And it's consistent. All my targets look like this one, and when I take my time, it's even worse because all the other groups look even tighter, yet the lower left is still scattered.

I was hoping someone was going to say my red dot has a parallax issue or something, but I guess it's just me.
 
johnnymac101 said:
Hang the target upside down! Problem solved!
Sorry, I have nothing useful to contribute
Click to expand...

At the range with a friend who was consistently about 4 inches low at 25 yards. He had adjusted elevations twice and was still in the same sport. When I went to hang new targets I hung his so the bullseye was right where he had been hitting. He cursed me, but he was hitting the bullseye after that.

I am going to take a wild guess for the OP that there is something about low and left that is just enough movement of the firearm to change your cheek weld or some other part of your stance to throw you off a bit. As has been mentioned, focus on the basics and practice your trigger pull etc and see if it gets better. Also, try it lefty and see what happens.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
For reasons unknown, I always have issues hitting the lower left point on a 12x12 target. This example picture is just casually shooting a PPC off hand at only 15 yards. Nothing serious in terms of aiming/concentration. Just 1 shot a second or so. I can consistently group shots over each other for the most part on all the other target points. If I really concentration and go for precision, I usually bullseye at this close a range. Just not the lower left.

For more background info: Righty shooting a 9mm PPC 8" SBR conventionally with a red dot. I am left eye dominant, but use my right eye. This doesn't seem to present itself as much with irons. What does that mean? Is this my eye dominance issue? Why just that one point on the target?

View attachment 484371
Click to expand...
practice is really the only solution - i did not take a photo, but, had a similar somewhat wtf moment today, as i was running my drills, and on the lowest bullseye at 12yds, it was about of my waistband level, i did flinch 9 times out of 10 and made an accurate 1.5" hole group precisely 2" lower than the POA. 1st round went into the POA, all the 9 others went 2" below, with an amazing consistency. :) that`s what a prolonged shooting of .22lr with no recoil does to you...
 
Try mixing it up. You might be psyching yourself out.

I would guess that you are shooting multiple consecutive rounds on the same target. Try 1 round per target going clockwise or counterclockwise. You can also try a speed and precision drill where you number (or letter) the targets and have a buddy call out the target.

Bob
 
HorizontalHunter said:
Try mixing it up. You might be psyching yourself out.

I would guess that you are shooting multiple consecutive rounds on the same target. Try 1 round per target going clockwise or counterclockwise. You can also try a speed and precision drill where you number (or letter) the targets and have a buddy call out the target.

Bob
Click to expand...
that is for sure - recoil anticipation.
i use same targets as in post #1 - only stick 2 vertically, and run a 10 bullseye pattern over it, at fast rate. slow rate precision shots are fine, but those rapid fire ones on lower POAs pointing a bit down - meh. now, as i recognized the issue i will try to figure it out, eventually, but, just got really surprised by it.
again, last couple of months i did not shoot any 9mm, only .22lr pistol. i noticed that i miss on all lower ones and then ran a mag into the same one, to confirm what it is. and it was not a spread - a nice accurate hole but exactly 2" lower the diamond. :)
 
HorizontalHunter said:
Try mixing it up. You might be psyching yourself out.

I would guess that you are shooting multiple consecutive rounds on the same target. Try 1 round per target going clockwise or counterclockwise. You can also try a speed and precision drill where you number (or letter) the targets and have a buddy call out the target.

Bob
Click to expand...

I typically shoot 1 round per target pip. Go around the perimeter and hit the center at the end. Sometimes I go in reverse. For whatever reason, it feels like there's a point of aim/point of impact shift on just the bottom left. I shoot the rest reasonable well. I'm starting to think it's all just psychological.
 
I purposely shoot odd shaped targets some of the time. It turns out to be useful in several ways. When I have large shoot and see targets with good groups, I cut them up so I can use the unused areas. I cut them into triangle or curved shapes, because that is what is left. I originally did this because I am cheap. But I quickly discovered that the odd shapes are a useful challenge to the eye.

I did not realize how accustomed I was to shooting the middle of rectangles and circles until I started trying to do something different. Our eyes get very used to shooting organized shapes, and those shapes don't really look like real world targets. So I stick my triangle and semi-circle targets up at random angles, and then I try to shoot the middle, the corners, and the edges. Sometimes this is unexpected difficult, especially at speed, and I think practicing in this way helps me see targets better.

So I might suggest to the OP trying some odd shaped targets, and see if that helps to figure out or resolve this issue.

I would also say that I do not recommend these drills for beginners. Making the targets more complicated is not helpful until the basic skill of shooting in the middle of a circle is comfortable.
 
paul73 said:
well, not an every single one here is a complete and true ‘nes operator' yet, some of us still shoot some guns, and miss, from time to time. :)
Click to expand...

It's because you still play with 9 mm. When you become bold enough to handle the 40, the bullets explode in a burst of rainbows and unicorn farts that will totally annihilate your target. 40 shooters never miss.. Even when they do there's nothing left of their target that would give an indication that they missed their mark.
 
Admin said:
Have a buddy throw a dummy round in your mag and shot another string of 10. Pay attention to your sights.
Click to expand...

I would take it one step further. The ball and dummy drill only IDENTIFIES the issue. Once identified, you need to correct it. I do this by taking a pile of dummy rounds and mixing in ONE live round. Load them without looking (I use brass dummy rounds so I can't tell difference by feel). Then load up and start working through entire mag. What this essentially does to your brain is simulate the stress that triggers recoil anticipation and allows you to work through it without wasting ammo, because you know the gun COULD go off. Once you hit live round, empty everything and reset the whole drill.
 
Roland Deschain said:
I would take it one step further. The ball and dummy drill only IDENTIFIES the issue. Once identified, you need to correct it. I do this by taking a pile of dummy rounds and mixing in ONE live round. Load them without looking (I use brass dummy rounds so I can't tell difference by feel). Then load up and start working through entire mag. What this essentially does to your brain is simulate the stress that triggers recoil anticipation and allows you to work through it without wasting ammo, because you know the gun COULD go off. Once you hit live round, empty everything and reset the whole drill.
Click to expand...
I correct it by tell them to mentally stop being a pussy.
 
dhuze said:
Your red dot has a parallax issue or something.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Not even a modest red dot should present enough parallax at 15 yards to be doing that especially only to one quadrant.
That's also making the assumption that when he's shooting at a very small target in different spots on a square range he's not shooting with the dot in the center. Which isn't impossible, but as it wasn't mentioned I find it unlikely.
 
Whiskeywon said:
Not even a modest red dot should present enough parallax at 15 yards to be doing that especially only to one quadrant.
That's also making the assumption that when he's shooting at a very small target in different spots on a square range he's not shooting with the dot in the center. Which isn't impossible, but as it wasn't mentioned I find it unlikely.
Click to expand...

I was kinda referring to this post.
ReluctantDecoy said:
Maybe. Although, I swear the red dot is perfectly aligned to provide similar accuracy as seen on the other pips, so I have no idea what's actually happening. And it's consistent. All my targets look like this one, and when I take my time, it's even worse because all the other groups look even tighter, yet the lower left is still scattered.

I was hoping someone was going to say my red dot has a parallax issue or something, but I guess it's just me.
Click to expand...
 
My go to when I am consistently shooting up/down/left/right of center.... Other than just sucking.
 

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