I think they're ripping us off!

[BigAl23]

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?
$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

 

[Lank]

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?
$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

I'm sure the mark up is slim

 

[Thinking]

Definition of CAPITALISM

an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[Broc]

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?
$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

Your local gun store might be selling at cost or very little markup.

I can't speak for TSUSA, I don't shop there (only because I reload).

But when it comes to margins, big stores doesn't necessarily mean better pricing on guns. Look at Bass Pro and Cabelas for example. Those guys buy thousands of handguns and rifles and their prices are always $100-400 more than the local gun store that buys just a few rifles.

TSUSA also has thousands of people constantly looking at their website. If your LGS had a line of one thousand people waiting outside for those 20 ammo boxes, the price would be higher.

 

[Snora]

Sold out in 30 seconds sounds like it was priced too low and not ripping you off.

 

[ScottS]

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?
$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

Am I reading this wrong, or am I extra stupid this morning.

The LGS is going to charge $6 less a box for the ammo than TSUSA? Based on that, is your thread title "I think they're ripping us off" sarcasm?

I must be slow on the uptake.

Wait...is the "they" TSUSA? If so, that thought must be a first on here.

 

[drgrant]

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?
$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

What do you mean who is ripping off who? Also what is going to happen if the price is going to vary depending on the chain and where they're getting it from for all you know the LGs is getting an order based on a price that was promised months ago so his pricing is based off what he committed/paid back then not what is relevant now.... also nearly everybody that selling ammo I don't care who it is is patting a buck or two extra on the side...

Also the other thing you guys seem to forget is that you're not actually getting ripped off unless you actually pay the shit price. If the price is too expensive for you then don't buy it, it's that simple. The best way to influence market economics is to not buy something.

 

[BigAl23]

Well I was at Cabelas back on Aug 3 and walking by the handgun ammo aisle, I saw a box of Winchester 9mm 115 500 rds. It was the only thing sitting on the shelf. I picked it up and asked the employee if this was $119.99 and he said yes. Of course I asked if there was more and he said they only got one case in and that was the last box. So Cabelas is not price gouging the ammo.

 

[BigAl23]

Am I reading this wrong, or am I extra stupid this morning.

The LGS is going to charge $6 less a box for the ammo than TSUSA? Based on that, is your thread title "I think they're ripping us off" sarcasm?

I must be slow on the uptake.

Wait...is the "they" TSUSA? If so, that thought must be a first on here.

No not sarcasm. I'm wondering why TSUSA is charging 40% more than my LGS when the must be buying at the same cost. My LGS said that's what his normal price is.

 

[OnTheRoad]

No not sarcasm. I'm wondering why TSUSA is charging 40% more than my LGS when the must be buying at the same cost. My LGS said that's what his normal price is.

They charge that much because it appears people are wiling (very willing, based on how fast it sells out) to pay that much. Based on the volume they move, they may very well pay less from the distributor than the LGS. If they priced it lower, it would only sell out faster.

 

[ScottS]

No not sarcasm. I'm wondering why TSUSA is charging 40% more than my LGS when the must be buying at the same cost. My LGS said that's what his normal price is.

Ok, I get your point now (not that I agree with it). Your "they" was a bit vague for me, I guess.

Whenever I see a thread mentioning how "they" are ripping us off, and mentioning a LGS, the "they" is always the LGS.

 

[EJFudd]

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?

$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

I would say that means that your LGS is buying it from another source.

 

[drgrant]

Well I was at Cabelas back on Aug 3 and walking by the handgun ammo aisle, I saw a box of Winchester 9mm 115 500 rds. It was the only thing sitting on the shelf. I picked it up and asked the employee if this was $119.99 and he said yes. Of course I asked if there was more and he said they only got one case in and that was the last box. So Cabelas is not price gouging the ammo.

Lol so if I own a gun shop and I have guys walking through the door willing to pay $340.00 for a case of 9mm at a drop of a hat, that's "price gouging?"

ETA: If you go into any gun shop of any prominence right now and hang around or work long enough- eventually you will see someone come in that is literally annoyed that they
can't buy an entire case of ammo (in the case of shops rationing, etc. ). they don't even care about the price, they want that 1000 rounds to stash away.

Any gun shop of any prominence could put cases out right now at 300-350 and their stock would be gone in a week or two assuming a modest stack of cases.

Cabelas can get away with selling it cheap (when it exists) because of a couple of things....

-They certainly paid less for the ammo than the gun shop did, likely under a buyers group contract or some multimillion dollar contract with winchester, probably still baked in at early 2020 pricing. -They have 50 times more products in the store to sell to make up for the lost opportunity profits they would have made off ammunition. Cabelas is not going to have ammunition sales constitute a large portion of their profits. Think about it like BJs or Costco selling gas, those gas pumps don't keep the store alive, they're an attractive nuisance product designed to get people to correlate their shopping trips around the existence of the gas pumps.

Also to put things in perspective...

Shop wholesale cost might be $220.00 for a case. That case gets sold for $340, which is $120.00 profit. If I have 20 cases that means that pile of ammo makes me $2400 off a pile of
ammo. In the grand scheme of things in a retail operation thats not a ton of money.

So you're going to stand there and tell me you're going to throw away $1200 in profit? (eg, at 280 a case which yields 14 bucks a box) For a total of about maybe 16 hours of customer goodwill and then empty shelves for over a week or more.... and in the long run, which do you think is going to be remembered by the consumer? The 10 people that were jerking off over the fact that you were not "gouging" (and I use this term loosely because it's not really price gouging) or the 100 people that went into your shop and got pissed off that there was no 9mm on the shelf. Not having stuff to sell is a bad position for a gun shop, a REALLY bad one. After someone comes in a few times to bare shelves, theres a tendency to not bothering to come back. That's why a lot of small shops right now are just closed outright, or frequently have to go on hiatuses.... because they had nothing to sell...

 

[drgrant]

To put it another way... right now there is a balance point of equilibrium that most shops are trying to hit.... between a lack of supply, yet to keep ammo on the shelves for people that want it... with also a third objective of maximizing profit whenever feasible. Market forces largely determine prices in a sort of yo-yo effect etc. Any "padding" being done right now, either at the distribution or the LGS level, is not going to go away if the market demand is as stiff as it is. Prices aren't going to drop until inventory starts sitting around.

Think of it this way... years ago under obama admin at one point gas was like 4 something bucks a gallon, or more. There were toyota dealers who would basically laugh at you, full on risitas style, if you tried to negotiate downward a price on a prius- because they had the advantage of knowing that every time a few of them showed up on their lot, they would sell at sticker, immediately. This situation isn't any different, It's a sellers market. That's just how economics work. And if you want the prices to go down, the best thing to do is to stop buying shit.

 

[Tinkermatic]

Sold out in 30 seconds sounds like it was priced too low and not ripping you off.

This. TSUSA will keep, and should keep raising prices until the stuff stays in stock for more than 30 seconds. If they don’t, the supply/demand curve will never find equilibrium and supply won’t catch up to demand until it slows.
If anyone thinks demand is going to slow anytime soon, I fear they’re sadly mistaken. Even the MSM is running stories about the influx of new gun owners, sprinkle in some riots, a pandemic, and an election year where the winner, regardless of who it is, results in more panic buying and you’ve a hell of a recipe for Increased demand.

Unfortunately, ammo has shown itself to have a relatively low price elasticity of demand, meaning people will buy it regardless of price increases. Especially when the alternative is not buying any.
Now, before someone mentions reloading, the barrier to entry into reloading isn’t all that low. Components are almost as hard to find as ammo from what I hear. Knowledge and or learning a new skill takes time, space in addition to that relegated to ammo storage, is necessary, and the cost of it all isn’t to be disregarded.

As @drgrant said in a different thread last week, the timeline for all this to blow over and return to something close to “normal” is probably in the 3-4 year range.

 

[Roadglide]

Tsusa was selling 10 bucks cheaper per box of the exact same box at my lgs the other day.

 

[greencobra]

op, not everyone lives near your lgs.

i find it funny that we, the gun community, think that ffl's are our friends and should sell us stuff at little or no mark up.

 

[ScottS]

I think the actual definition of "price gouging" means that the product doesn't move. Example: see the ads in the NES classified from 2016 that haven't sold, but just keep getting bumped.

 

[Individualist]

Well I was at Cabelas back on Aug 3 and walking by the handgun ammo aisle, I saw a box of Winchester 9mm 115 500 rds. It was the only thing sitting on the shelf. I picked it up and asked the employee if this was $119.99 and he said yes. Of course I asked if there was more and he said they only got one case in and that was the last box. So Cabelas is not price gouging the ammo.

You got lucky. I went the past few days because online they were showing some 9mm in stock at normal prices ($200/cs). Asked one guy who said “he never saw it, must still be in route.” Next day another guy says “he never saw it, must have been a mistake.” Third day another guy tells me that “even if it does make it to the shelves (hinting that employees grab it) it sells out in minutes by people coming in every day to resell it online.”

Free market capitalism baby. Just suck it up and buy it if you need it, when you can find it.

 

[drgrant]

I think the actual definition of "price gouging" means that the product doesn't move. Example: see the ads in the NES classified from 2016 that haven't sold, but just keep getting bumped.

I think we have Pedastal Sinks older than that, maybe. Although the Flobert Parlor Rifle, is no longer.....

 

[EJFudd]

I think the actual definition of "price gouging" means that the product doesn't move. Example: see the ads in the NES classified from 2016 that haven't sold, but just keep getting bumped.

LOL!!!!! After about 40 or 50 bumps, the item should have to be donated to charity.

I think we have Pedestal Sinks older than that, maybe. Although the Flobert Parlor Rifle, is no longer.....

Am I the only member who actually misses the infamous Flobert Parlor Rifle in the Classifieds?

 

[pupchow]

So, the LGS couldn't sell you a case or two @ $14/box?

 

[Rockrivr1]

The prices being charged at TS is the same as every other online store. In some cases they have lower prices then a few. Nobody has a lot of stock left. It’s not price gouging. It’s the market demand for a limited commodity. Ammo is not alone. Have you seen the prices for beef lately.

 

[Stape]

Went to one of my LGS's yesterday to pick up a rifle and he had cases and cases of Federal 9mm on the floor and also stacks of cases of Wolf 7.62x39, price was $430/cs? Ouch, thats high, but at least he has some. Says he sells it pretty steady.

 

[late08]

Another reason is convenience. WAY easier to sit behind the computer and just click click click for $19.99 than to get in the car and drive around LGS shopping.

Plus they have a nationwide customer base at TGS- so its going to go real quick no matter the price. LGS not so much....its more local demand driven.

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?
$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

 

[1919FAN]

It's just supply in demand driving the price plain and simple while the wholesale prices climbed a few percent availability is what is driving the price.

 

[Broc]

9mm s*cks. Stop buying that sh*t round. It's like shooting a plastic BB at someone.

.40 is where its at. That stuff is like the 50BMG of handguns. Buy it all.

 

[drgrant]

9mm s*cks. Stop buying that sh*t round. It's like shooting a plastic BB at someone.

.40 is where its at. That stuff is like the 50BMG of handguns. Buy it all.

The cheap .40 is starting to run dry at places, too.. People have caught onto that shit. Used .40s are actually selling like hotcakes now, too. flints are ejac'ing over Smegma 40VEs...

 

[Racenet]

I was at my LGS yesterday and he told me he has a small order ( 20 boxes only) Sellier& Bellott 9mm 124 coming in.

Just 15 minutes ago I was on Target Sports and there was the same ammo. It was there for about 30 seconds before it sold out. It was $19.99 a box

back to my LGS and I said how much is the ammo going to be?
$14 a box! I said, you're paying $14 a box? He said, no, I'm selling it for $14 a box! So, WTF? .....over

0/10

 

[magpug]

Maybe if people were not grabbing just to grab there WOULD be ammo.Also posting so and so has some and then whine 10 minutes later that is gone. WTH. Wait til 11/4 after the arseholes get in. Just saying.