I would like to learn to shoot at a few hundred yards

[Jose]

You must be an excellent shot to be able to do MOA at 600 with iron sights. I can barely see the target at 600, never mind get MOA grouping.

Remember what I said: with the right target.

The targets used in NRA Highpower Rifle and in CMP EIC matches are all designed to be seen by an unaided, healthy eye all the way to 1000 yards.

The black bullseye is always 6 MOA +\- regardless of the distance. That means the 600 yard NRA rife target has a 3 ft diameter aiming black.

As long as your distance vision is good (or corrected to be good) and you can focus on the front sight, NRA highpower is not a seeing game.

 

[Jose]

.22LR 1" group at 100yds?

I believe him because I can do pretty close to that with iron sights

1.5 MOA 10 shot group, shot with an AR15 National Match equipped with a Compass Lake Engineering .22LR upper on a NRA regulation 600 yd target reduced to 100 yards. Prone with a sling and shooting coat, NM iron sights

20 shot group on a 100 yard NRA smallbore prone target. 10 ring is slightly over 2 MOA. Shot with an Anschutz 1411 prone match rifle with match aperture sights, again prone with a sling and shooting coat. Lost two to the wind on shifts that I missed

And I can produce those groups on demand.

 

[Jose]

From what a couple of my buddies tell me, Jose is an excellent shot. Especially with a scoped rifle out to 1,000.

I'm OK.......there's guys here that are true hard holders (Derek, PatMcD, bpm990, ctrickett).

As a matter of fact I just got back from Thunder Valley. Went there to confirm a drop chart all the way to 700 yards and just play with banging steel.

 

[Jose]

OP, exactly what rifle and scope do you have to work at learning long range shooting?

If you let us know we can start with some advice about its suitability. Also, if you handload, let us know what projectile you are using and what muzzle velocity you are getting out of it.

 

[GunGrey]

The devil lies in the details

 

[jasons]

New to this, don't even know where to start. Are there clubs that have ranges of this size? I am hoping some of the more knowledgeable could share some info. thanks.

Seems the max at the local clubs is 100 yds. I would like to get to 200 and say up to 400.

Go to a CMP clinic. The season is pretty much over, but they should start back up in the spring. I recommend Nashua's.

 

[M1911]

Go to a CMP clinic. The season is pretty much over, but they should start back up in the spring. I recommend Nashua's.

Great suggestion.

 

[jasons]

you do not need even 100 yrds.

I'm absolutely pro gun person,

but just for my curriosity, why would you need an assault rifle ?

You seem to know a lot about what people need.

By the way, I shoot my "assault rifle" across the course almost every weekend in the summer. I even took it to the Nationals this year.

 

[bpm990d]

As a matter of fact I just got back from Thunder Valley. Went there to confirm a drop chart all the way to 700 yards and just play with banging steel.

That sounds great! I hope you create a post with a class review. Looks like a lot of fun.

BTW, what did you use to calculate your drop tables and how close were your predicted results?

B

 

[T3andme]

Another vote for the CMP program. Google it and hit what is probably the last session for this year. I learned so much from it and would like to do more.

 

[bullseye]

There's a big fat guy that needs to be executed, put him out at the 100 yd marker, good place to start.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/176101-Too-fat-to-execute

 

[Jose]

That sounds great! I hope you create a post with a class review. Looks like a lot of fun.

BTW, what did you use to calculate your drop tables and how close were your predicted results?

B

It was just an open range day. No formal class or training, although Tom Sarver, the owner, does provide training upon request.

I used JBM Ballistics with the default values for Nosler's 175 gr match bullet. Dope was spot on to 400 yards then started to run low past that. At 500 I had to add .2 mils uo, at 600 .3 up and at 700 .7 up. I suspect I did not use the best possible G number.

That was my last batch with that load as I found my rifle likes my old Palma load a lot better. JBM has Bryan Litz's parameters for the Lapua 155 in there which happens to be the bullet I used for NRA prone and will use with my scoped Howa now. So my next trip there will be to confirm dope on the Lapua load and I think the results will match more closely.

 

[c-king]

How can I find out more about this clinic?

Thanks-

CMP civilian marksmanship program.

There's CMP clinic in Gloucester on Nov 11th. Its $40 and includes the rifle (Garand) and ammo. Its only shot at 100 yards. Its a great day and there are always a few guys that shoot high power there to help.

A bonus is you get all the papers and what not to be able to order from the CMP.

 

[bullseye]

You know, I want to shoot at a few hundred yards also, and the moonbats that live in them!

 

[boatman]

OP, exactly what rifle and scope do you have to work at learning long range shooting?

If you let us know we can start with some advice about its suitability. Also, if you handload, let us know what projectile you are using and what muzzle velocity you are getting out of it.

SW AR 22, with just OTS 500 round box of fed/cci. I am maxed at 100 yds, and don't really believe .22 with 1k fps is great for going longer range. But would be interesting ballistics/targeting considering at 200 yds the bullet is in the air about .5 sec...


Looking at getting either an SW AR 15T, or Savage 308.

2 other questions:
1. Looked up reading range, there are 2 different places, one is the rifle revolver range, which I can't find a website for, the other is the reading high power, which looks more like what I am looking for
2. what is CMP?

 

[jasons]

How can I find out more about this clinic?

Thanks-

The list of upcoming CMP clinics is published here: http://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.p...coming&filter=designation&filter_value=CLINIC

If you click on the club, it will show you contact info. Call or email the match director.

 

[TheRoland]

It was just an open range day. No formal class or training, although Tom Sarver, the owner, does provide training upon request.

I used JBM Ballistics with the default values for Nosler's 175 gr match bullet. Dope was spot on to 400 yards then started to run low past that. At 500 I had to add .2 mils uo, at 600 .3 up and at 700 .7 up. I suspect I did not use the best possible G number.

That was my last batch with that load as I found my rifle likes my old Palma load a lot better. JBM has Bryan Litz's parameters for the Lapua 155 in there which happens to be the bullet I used for NRA prone and will use with my scoped Howa now. So my next trip there will be to confirm dope on the Lapua load and I think the results will match more closely.

How did you get velocity at your muzzle? I found getting a "known-good" drop at 300 and using that to calculate velocity produced a better curve than chrono.

In my opinion, long-range is pretty easy to do, but hard to do well. I've hit steel at 800 (which any idiot with the right equipment can do) but consistency is a learned skill.

 

[jasons]

How did you get velocity at your muzzle?

With a chronograph.

 

[Cerfur]

Not sure where you are.. Dartmouth mass had the newbedford rifle range in it...(weird I know) It has a 500 yard range, Membership is only 60 bucks. The one thing I learned about Reaching out its alot about equipment and you need to start with 17hmr or 22lr and move up.. You need good scopes and you need to also get the equipment to get them sighted in (lead slead) I have been shooting rifles for a long time and am very good to about 100 yards as I am a hunter..

I have been for a long time been thinking I want to get into long range target.. I have a good 30-06 but I need a better scope and a lead sled.. I also think I need a .17hmr because I know I will burn alot of rounds and 30-06 is not cheep! I have used friends rifles that are all set up and done. What I consider quite well for me at 500 yards... But I can't do it with my own equipment..

I don't even understand how guys shoot with steel sights at 200 yards......

 

[jasons]

Not sure where you are.. Dartmouth mass had the newbedford rifle range in it...(weird I know) It has a 500 yard range, Membership is only 60 bucks. The one thing I learned about Reaching out its alot about equipment and you need to start with 17hmr or 22lr and move up.. You need good scopes and you need to also get the equipment to get them sighted in (lead slead) I have been shooting rifles for a long time and am very good to about 100 yards as I am a hunter..

I have been for a long time been thinking I want to get into long range target.. I have a good 30-06 but I need a better scope and a lead sled.. I also think I need a .17hmr because I know I will burn alot of rounds and 30-06 is not cheep! I have used friends rifles that are all set up and done. What I consider quite well for me at 500 yards... But I can't do it with my own equipment..

I don't even understand how guys shoot with steel sights at 200 yards......

You don't "need" a scope or a rest. You can use that stuff if you want, but it's not needed.

 

[Jose]

I don't even understand how guys shoot with steel sights at 200 yards......

Probably because you've never been taught how to use a front post/rear aperture sight set correctly and with the right kind of target. Read this to see how it's done: US Army Marksmanship Unit explains service rifle sight picture

The unaided eye can see a black 6 MOA round target on a buff background all the way to 1000 yards. That's a fact, not an opinion. Which is why all the targets used in iron sight rifle competition are exactly that.

 

[Jose]

You need good scopes and you need to also get the equipment to get them sighted in (lead slead) I have been shooting rifles for a long time and am very good to about 100 yards as I am a hunter..

1) You don't need a scope to shoot at long range
2) You don't need a lead sled to sight a rifle in
3) The fact that you've been shooting rifles a long time and are a hunter gives you no insight or knowledge about the sport of long range target shooting.

Hunters, in fact, are almost always the least knowledgeable about such things particularly in the east where shots are game are almost always under 150 yards (hardly long range).

 

[Jose]

SW AR 22, with just OTS 500 round box of fed/cci. I am maxed at 100 yds, and don't really believe .22 with 1k fps is great for going longer range. But would be interesting ballistics/targeting considering at 200 yds the bullet is in the air about .5 sec...


Looking at getting either an SW AR 15T, or Savage 308.

2 other questions:
1. Looked up reading range, there are 2 different places, one is the rifle revolver range, which I can't find a website for, the other is the reading high power, which looks more like what I am looking for
2. what is CMP?

Don't buy a new rifle yet. The most popular and easily accessible way to learn to shoot at longer distances is by taking an NRA or CMP highpower rifle clinic and then slowly buying the rifle and gear to participate in matches.

If buy either of the rifles you mentioned, then you take a clinic and like the sport of highpower you'll realize that you just wasted your money on rifles that are not suitable for the sport without a ton of modifications ($$$).

In fact, I think your .22LR AR is a fine tool for long range practice at 100 to 150 yards. Just ditch the cheapo ammo and get some true match .22LR ammo. Some of it is horrendously expensive, but there are lesser grades of target ammo that won't break the bank. However, all rimfire match ammo is more expensive than the plinking stuff. It has to be. Consistency costs money.

I'm surprised no one has suggested you attend an Appleseed training shoot. You can learn how to properly use the iron sights and a sling on your AR there. Once you learn that, you have overcome the biggest hurdle to entry into highpower rifle shooting.

CMP is the Civilian Marksmanship Program: http://odcmp.com/

 

[jasons]

Don't buy a new rifle yet.

This. Go to a clinic then shoot some matches with a club rifle or borrow someone's backup rifle. If you decide you like it, buy a proper rifle and keep shooting matches. The best way to learn is to shoot.

 

[noddaduma]

Remember what I said: with the right target.

The targets used in NRA Highpower Rifle and in CMP EIC matches are all designed to be seen by an unaided, healthy eye all the way to 1000 yards.

The black bullseye is always 6 MOA +\- regardless of the distance. That means the 600 yard NRA rife target has a 3 ft diameter aiming black.

As long as your distance vision is good (or corrected to be good) and you can focus on the front sight, NRA highpower is not a seeing game.

That's interesting info. Sounds a lot like the 600 yd steel target I used to shoot out west in the desert. It was ~3 ft diameter and painted black, which provided high contrast against the desert sand backstop. Easy to see in the peep sights of both my Garand and AR-15.

I guess it wasn't just arbitrarily sized at 3'. I do remember that all the round gongs on that range (100, 200, 300, 400, 600) looked the same in the sight picture. Now I know why.

 

[Gman021]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but look into Appleseed shoots.

 

[M1911]

I don't even understand how guys shoot with steel sights at 200 yards......

It's not that big a deal. Seriously. As I mentioned, my wife had shot less than 500 rounds through a rifle when she took a CMP clinic with me. She hit the target at 600 yards. And both of us are heavily nearsighted. The targets are large with very good contrast. Add in a sling and some good instruction, and you'll hit the target as well.

Now going distinguished, that is a big deal. But just hitting the target somewhere is not.

 

[PatMcD]

We had a new guy show up yesterday at our last XTC Match (That's 200, 300, and 600yds) in Scarborough. All he had was a Rock River carbine-length rifle and some Black Hills 69grain ammo. Flip-up sights, USGI web sling, cloth shooting jacket, borrowed spotting scope. We had him on paper with his first shot at 600. He ran out of time and didn't get all his rounds down range, but every one that did made the scoring rings. His first string was for a 77 I think. He was a little disappointed on his score, but I thought he did quite well for it being his first time and all.

The moral of the story: get off the computer and just get out there and do it (Next season, as this one is pretty much over up here). Go to a Highpower rifle Match. Let the Match Director know ahead of time you are new and need help/borrowed equipment. I've got spares of everything and free ammo for any new guy that wants to shoot in Maine. I've got a pretty good idea there are guys with the same offer down in NH and MA.

 

[jasons]

I've got a pretty good idea there are guys with the same offer down in NH and MA.

Yep. Just make yourself known ahead of time and people will bring gear to borrow.

 

[M1911]

Yep. Just make yourself known ahead of time and people will bring gear to borrow.

Take these guys up on their offer. Service rifle shooters are good people and hitting the target at 600 yards is a hoot. And you'll really learn something about trigger control.