Identify this Flintlock

[Slotheadslim]

My parents have had this flintlock in their attic as far as I can remember. Now that they are considering selling their house and moving to a retirement facility this gun would go to me. It was my grandfather's and supposedly was used as a practice gun for the Vermont Militia during WWII. While the hammer drops I doubt it is usable, there is no ramrod and no paperwork to describe it. There are no identifying markings on it and a few scant letters. If you have any ideas what it is I'd love to hear from you or if you know of someone who might know or other resources I could use please tell me.

Thanks,

Tom

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[jtnf]

IANAE, but TINAFL!

That is a percussion cap BP gun, no flint involved.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flintlock_mechanism


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percussion_cap

 

[Slotheadslim]

Thanks Jtnf! That's very good information. I appreciate it.

Tom

 

[bbarer]

It has some resemblance to an 1855 Springfield, but the lock is not right......Too bad because an original one would be quite a prize. Not sure what you have but it is a bit unusual..

 

[Slotheadslim]

Hi All,

I've spoken to several people familiar with antique firearms about this rifle but there is no definite identification yet. Here is what I found out:

- 1837 stamped on the barrel and the body.
- British crown stamped on the right side of the body just below the hammer (see the attached pictures and zoom in)
- Percussion cap rifle
- Barrel length 34"
- Bore diameter 11/16
- 49.5 inches total length
- "R" stamped on the flat part of the trigger guard
- The half stock appears to be original
- Sling-swivel attachment point in the forged trigger guard
- Number "85" stamped faintly on the barrel chamber
- Ramrod is missing

If anyone has any more guesses, information or would like to see more pictures please let me know. I was told that Robbins & Lawrence in Vermont had a contract with England to manufacture over 10,000 Model 1853 Enfield muskets so it's possible it was built in Vermont. There are some similarities to this rifle to other Robbins & Lawrence models I've seen but no exact match.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Rugerfan]

The finish on the stock, and the screw heads look too modern. My guess is it is a reproduction of some variety.

 

[Glockster30]

Thanks Jtnf! That's very good information. I appreciate it.

Tom

Just to complicate matters, it could have been a flintlock that was converted to percussion.

 

[BaldAssCat]

Just to complicate matters, it could have been a flintlock that was converted to percussion.

I was thinking the same thing with the curve of the drum shapped like a pan but there's no screw hole for the frizzen spring below the drum.

http://www.rockislandauction.com/photos/56/p_standard/CUQ1325-T-CU2-L.jpg

It could have been filled though. The lock plate looks long enough to have had a frizzen spring at one point but I've found a repro for a late 1800s trade gun with the same style lock. I also found one claimed to be a conversion that looks the same too.

http://www.gunauction.com/buy/9065362


Beyond late 1800s trade guns I'm having a hard time finding a square comb, and none of them on a half stock. Otherwise the trigger guard is the same style as a Brown Bess and the stock shape with the long wrist was the english style of the day.

- - - Updated - - -

The finish on the stock, and the screw heads look too modern. My guess is it is a reproduction of some variety.

Refinish and replacement screws maybe?

OP, I forgot to ask if it was .68 smooth or rifled?

 

[Slotheadslim]

All,

Thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately my grandfather passed away in 1973 and there is no one else to ask about the history of the gun. After 179 years anything is possible.

The interior of the barrel is smoothed, not rifled.

Tom

 

[Terrys]

Looks kinda like a Dresden. Can you see what's engraved under the crown?

Edited to add: I mean a Prussian M1809/31 made in Dresden. It kind of looks like a "D" under the crown on the lock. The fore stock area is messed up though.

But what do I know....

 

[BaldAssCat]

Check the one about halfway down the page under the heading "shotgun".

http://traditionalmuzzleloader.com/index.php/smoothbore-guns-of-the-fur-trade/18-shooting

Not exactly the same but a similar half stock, lock and octagon to round barrel. Looking like it might be a brittish trade gun.

I think trade gun because the crown is very small compared to the military guns of the time. I've seen crown stamps on cast iron from the 19th century that size though. I never could never pinpoint the origin of that either because every forge and blacksmith of the day were using it.

 

[Slotheadslim]

Looks kinda like a Dresden. Can you see what's engraved under the crown?

Edited to add: I mean a Prussian M1809/31 made in Dresden. It kind of looks like a "D" under the crown on the lock. The fore stock area is messed up though.

But what do I know....

Terry,

I think you are absolutely correct. Based on the pictures and descriptions in the following links I'm 99% sure this gun is a Prussian M1809/31:


http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/73486-Model-1809-Potsdam-Prussian-Musket-pics


http://olderthendirt.proboards.com/thread/1934


http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?173300-Prussian-Musket-Question-about-markings


http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku....9-Dated-1835-Percussion-Musket-SOLD-PENDING-F

Thank you so much! If I find out more I'll let you know.

Tom

 

[BaldAssCat]

Terry,

I think you are absolutely correct. Based on the pictures and descriptions in the following links I'm 99% sure this gun is a Prussian M1809/31:


http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/73486-Model-1809-Potsdam-Prussian-Musket-pics


http://olderthendirt.proboards.com/thread/1934


http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?173300-Prussian-Musket-Question-about-markings


http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku....9-Dated-1835-Percussion-Musket-SOLD-PENDING-F

Thank you so much! If I find out more I'll let you know.

Tom

Very nice. Congrats on the musket! Maybe you can find a complete stock for it.

 

[Terrys]

Terry,

I think you are absolutely correct. ....

Thank you so much! If I find out more I'll let you know.

Tom

Glad I could help, Tom. I know very little about antique muskets and have only ever owned one, but it was a Prussian M1809/31. Sadly, I sold it for next to nothing in the early '70s.

You didn't say whether you're going to restore it or not, but if you do, try here for parts: http://www.ssfirearms.com/products.asp?cat=95 . Some of the auction sites sometimes have parts and stocks and eBay might have some as well.

Terry

 

[Slotheadslim]

Terry,

Great link. Thanks for sharing it. Honestly even though the rifle was my grandfathers it didn't have any significant value to him. It has literally sat in the corner of the attic for the last 60 years. I'm not particularly tied to it and I was considering selling it. If you or others might be interested in it feel free to send me a private message.

Tom