IDPA, plates, practical. Do you know of any groups who run a hot range?

I guess this mentality is why it boiled down to me not going to comps. "Just do it because rulz!".

I'm saying the rules don't make any sense. You're training to get better with a firearm. I dont think while doing that you should simultaneously tell people loaded guns are so dangerous, we can't do that around here. I don't like being treated like an idiot when I'm being responsible. Treat the dumbass finger f***ing his gun like an idiot and let the rest of us be adults.

The brightly colored Nascar shirts with fake sponsors should have been the first indication that this ain't training
 
I guess this mentality is why it boiled down to me not going to comps. "Just do it because rulz!".

I'm saying the rules don't make any sense. You're training to get better with a firearm. I dont think while doing that you should simultaneously tell people loaded guns are so dangerous, we can't do that around here. I don't like being treated like an idiot when I'm being responsible. Treat the dumbass finger f***ing his gun like an idiot and let the rest of us be adults.

Come to a shoot. Watch or participate. It’s a good time. Good people, some laughs. Some super skilled guys.

It’s a game. Forget the dumbing it down. But there is still a lot to be gained by going.
 
I've been to a couple and the cold range aspect is specifically what turned me off about it.

In a way I get it. But again it’s harder to manage a hot range.

Not making excuses for the rules. But having been to a LOT of matches. Cold ranges are the normal.

Only one guy I know in person has an issue. He’s the outlier.

Everyone else is ok with it. And these while not major matches. These still have a solid crew and are not small matches.

EDA: what’s the benefit to a hot range?
 
In a way I get it. But again it’s harder to manage a hot range.

Not making excuses for the rules. But having been to a LOT of matches. Cold ranges are the normal.

Only one guy I know in person has an issue. He’s the outlier.

Everyone else is ok with it. And these while not major matches. These still have a solid crew and are not small matches.

EDA: what’s the benefit to a hot range?

The benefit is your gun is loaded like it should always be.
 
The benefit is your gun is loaded like it should always be.

I get it. But the “games” are not that way.

So I’ll stop here. With the below.

My responsibility as an SO is to tell you to unload and show clear (etc). I can’t allow an exception.

Hope you reconsider.
 
Even the ACTS (American Confederation of Tactical Shooters) and GADPA (Great American Defensive Pistol Association) operate a cold range. These are noteworthy because both organizations came to be because their charter members felt USPSA and even IDPA do not offer a 'real world' shooting experience.

OP are you a member of a gun club? One that has bays where you can set up and run the type of drills/scenarios you want? Have you considered being the organizer for the exact thing that you seek?
 
Cold range is the same, people aren't messing with their gun either. they are sent home if they do

Here is a question for you hot range folks. If you shoot your stage, you holster your gun. You pop out the mag and put in a fresh one....how do you know if there is one in the pipe? Not think you know, actually know

In my case, if the gun slide locks back, you eject the empty mag, slap in a new one, and drop the slide. I don't try to count rounds. When the SHTF, you won't keep track.
 
Didn't read the whole thread. The last IDPA match (major match to boot) I'm aware of that had a hot range on one particular stage dude shot himself in the leg.
 
Actually now that I think about it there was a club in Southern New Hampshire that was hot. Outlaw matches, I can't remember if it was before IDPA or not. Was a good gang and they had some pretty cool stuff, a Quonset hut setup like the inside of a plane, an old house you worked way thru, neat stuff. The takeaway from the hot thing I got was you didn't get LAMR to get you chi together, and they were purposely quick to rush are you ready stuff, but you pretty quick figured out to get your focus sharp before you stepped into the box.
 
I wonder how many cold range advocates also complain about the Range Nazis. You know, the self-appointed ROs who bark about no more than five rounds loaded, and no more than 1 shot every five seconds?
 
So ban that guy from competitions. Don't treat all people like idiots, just because there are idiots.
Mmmmm, perhaps. But IIRC the host just didn't have the entire match anymore. World class event that was available to us local schmucks.
 
If you don't compete, because you're too switched-on to have an empty gun, how do you measure yourself and your skill?

I'm f***ing awesome when there's nobody with a shot timer around.

Lol. I own several shot timers and I shoot a fair number of matches with friends. We record results and have stages.
 
So ban that guy from competitions. Don't treat all people like idiots, just because there are idiots.
You really don’t get it. The problem is that you don’t know who “that guy” is until there’s an accident. If I choose to attend a match, I never turn my back on the guy with the loaded gun because I don’t trust him not to do something stupid/dangerous. If everyone on the range was hot, I could never relax because I have a significant amount of time/experience running matches with new shooters who could not be trusted alone with a loaded gun. In fact, it’s not just new shooters, it’s also seasoned veteran’s who’ve been shooting for years all by themselves in the pistol port at their range who never know just how dangerous they are with a loaded gun because nobody ever watches them shoot. You would have to be out of your f’ing mind to say you’d be comfortable at a match on a range with 50+ shooters all carrying hot, most of whom you don’t know. Or, you’d have to be very inexperienced when it comes to understanding the dangers associated with loaded guns in inexperienced hands. I sincerely hope I am never on the same range as you, because my instinct tells me you would be dangerous even on a cold range.
 
You really don’t get it. The problem is that you don’t know who “that guy” is until there’s an accident. If I choose to attend a match, I never turn my back on the guy with the loaded gun because I don’t trust him not to do something stupid/dangerous. If everyone on the range was hot, I could never relax because I have a significant amount of time/experience running matches with new shooters who could not be trusted alone with a loaded gun. In fact, it’s not just new shooters, it’s also seasoned veteran’s who’ve been shooting for years all by themselves in the pistol port at their range who never know just how dangerous they are with a loaded gun because nobody ever watches them shoot. You would have to be out of your f’ing mind to say you’d be comfortable at a match on a range with 50+ shooters all carrying hot, most of whom you don’t know. Or, you’d have to be very inexperienced when it comes to understanding the dangers associated with loaded guns in inexperienced hands. I sincerely hope I am never on the same range as you, because my instinct tells me you would be dangerous even on a cold range.

I've been going to gun ranges all my life with plenty of the people you're talking about. Never been shot. This fear mongering about guns going off everywhere is fantasy land.
 
I've been going to gun ranges all my life with plenty of the people you're talking about. Never been shot. This fear mongering about guns going off everywhere is fantasy land.
No, I think you just value your life and personal safety less than I value mine and my kids. You are willing to take the risk that someone you don’t know won’t make what could turn out to be a life altering error, and I am not. So be it. Good luck in your endeavor to find a hot range match. I know I won’t be there.
 
I've been going to gun ranges all my life with plenty of the people you're talking about. Never been shot. This fear mongering about guns going off everywhere is fantasy land.

I shoot IDPA/USPSA sanctioned matches at a couple of clubs. At my local club here in Georgia we're actively trying to get more shooters. We've gone from a range that was built about five years ago to hosting GA State IDPA this year. We've previously run Tier 2 BUG matches, hosted GSSF, and have three matches a month. So, we're active and we want more of our members to try practical shooting.

Couple of months ago one of the long distance rifle shooters entered one of our matches. He got flustered while shooting, and spun uprange, sweeping the RO in the process, ended up pointing his gun at members of his squad as they stood there.

He's NOT a "new shooter", he's a competent long distance shooter - he's new to IDPA/USPSA/Practical shooting.

I was in his squad, not ROing him on that stage. The RO reached out, pushed his arm down so that the gun was pointing at the ground, got him turned around, then had him unload and show clear. MD was called over, shooter was DQ'd.

He's since shot at other matches, he's getting better.
 
We all have horror stories about getting guns pointed at us on cold and hot ranges. Its not how the range is run, but the dumb people there.

All competitions games default to "we don't know which one of you is an idiot, so you are all idiots" when it comes to safety.

When I'm playing games with my gun, I don't want to carry a loaded gun running around RO'ing people, I don't want the weight of the mags or gun on me. So on long days. I'll even bag my gun between stages.
 
So ban that guy from competitions. Don't treat all people like idiots, just because there are idiots.
I would rather have someone who shot themselves worry about getting their membership revoked rather that what size settlement they will get from the clubs former insurer. I say former because a gunshot claim will likely result in non-renewal of the policy. This is, of course, assuming that the person does not appear likely to repeat the error.
 
What's the advantage for a hot range?
Natural selection??? Kill of the idiots or the folks that aren't smart enough not to squad with them? There is zero advantage. As other have said, 'It's a game'. If you want to train like a DHS JBT, there's no shortage of people happy to take your money and put you on a hot range. Some of them might even be good.
With proper discipline and process, I think, it could be done. Why? It's a different story. In any case, any organized action shooters group will exercise cold range to adhere to published official rules.
To what end? There simply is no advantage or reason to run a hot range in a game. It's not like the Taliban is going to make a sudden attack from over the next berm.
I don't think they pretend its a good idea for guns overall, just the game. All games have rules that are different than real life that it mimics. MMA you can't punch people in the balls. Real life fight...yeah I'm gonna punch you in the plums.
...or gouge out the eyes.
No doubt, but winning shooting competitions is fun
I got to experiecne that once when I got old enough that no other seniors showed up in my division.
 
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No, I think you just value your life and personal safety less than I value mine and my kids. You are willing to take the risk that someone you don’t know won’t make what could turn out to be a life altering error, and I am not. So be it. Good luck in your endeavor to find a hot range match. I know I won’t be there.

I'm not looking for hot matches to become a thing. The OP is. I'm simply commenting on how I believe cold ranges for comps are ridiculous.
 
I would rather have someone who shot themselves worry about getting their membership revoked rather that what size settlement they will get from the clubs former insurer. I say former because a gunshot claim will likely result in non-renewal of the policy. This is, of course, assuming that the person does not appear likely to repeat the error.

What your ststing is yet another problem with not emphasizing responsibility. Laws allow the type of claim your talking about specifically becuase, like cold ranges, no-one is standing up and saying "we don't make rules to help idiots live their lives". Anyone having an AD/ND at a range shouod not be allowed to sue the range for their incompetence.
 
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