Improper storage of ammunition..in a vehicle

[DPR]

On the morning of Thursday, January 19, 2017, a Massachusetts Environmental Police officer responded to a complaint involving waterfowl hunters. Upon arrival to the scene, the officer observed four hunters aboard a vessel actively shooting at waterfowl while the vessel was underway.

With the assistance of the Marshfield Harbormaster, a Massachusetts Environmental Police Sergeant was subsequently transported to the hunters’ vessel to conduct a boarding. During the boarding, the Sergeant observed the hunters had no state or federal duck stamps and were not in possession of the proper amount of personal floatation devices. The hunters’ vessel was then escorted back to the boat ramp.
Upon arrival at the boat ramp, additional MEP officers then inspected the hunters, their harvest, and their equipment. The officers observed the following violations: insufficient personal floatation devices, no state duck stamp, no federal duck stamp, shooting waterfowl from a moving vessel, possession of waterfowl over the limit, and possession of unauthorized waterfowl (out of season).
With the assistance of the Scituate Police Department, the four hunters were placed under arrest.
Subsequent to the arrest, a vehicle inventory inspection revealed eight unsecured handguns and a large cache of improperly stored ammunition. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives is reviewing the firearms and suspects for any further state or federal violations.


Any guesses as to how the ammo was stored improperly? Don't know if they were charged with anything ammo related though. And there is no way that they had a large cache of ammo, I cant' fit my cache of ammo in a car or truck.

 

[fencer]

Maybe the ammo was stored with the firearms?

 

[robjax]

What, no Hunter safety course? Jeeze, for a couple of hours and few dollars all of this doesn't happen.

"no state duck stamp, no federal duck stamp, shooting waterfowl from a moving vessel, possession of waterfowl over the limit, and possession of unauthorized waterfowl (out of season)"

 

[Waher]

Ammo in MA is supposed to be kept in/with their original boxes, so maybe that's the basis of the charges?

 

[mikelawtown]

Ammo in MA is supposed to be kept in/with their original boxes, so maybe that's the basis of the charges?

Thought this was in the home safe?

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Why the hell was the BATFE involved with this in any way?

 

[robjax]

Why the hell was the BATFE involved with this in any way?

they want to send these guys away for life. It's as simple as that. They are anti and want to make sure these guys never legally posses or use a firearm again.

 

[MisterHappy]

Not in its original boxes.

527 CMR 13.04(1)(e)

 

[Jttgspring]

So wait. If your transporting ammo in those plastic cases, you know flip top ones, that's not proper storage? Learn something new every day. I wanted to buy some of those too...

 

[MisterHappy]

It's not a Mass General Law. It's part of the Commonwealth of Mass Regulations (CMRs).

When the legislature enacts new laws , they generally add a codicil about "the Agency Director may enact such regulations are needed....." or words to that effect.

If it were not for the pile of fail with all the other charges, this would likely never have happened.

Don't be stupid, and you should be fine.

 

[Arto]

It might've been easier/shorter to list any laws they might have been in compliance with....

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

Cachè... Pfft. I'm not impressed with anything less than an arsenal.

 

[noxin]

Cachè... Pfft. I'm not impressed with anything less than an arsenal.

a collection of weapons and military equipment stored by a country, person, or group.


We've seen the "storage" requirements be applied to firearms in parked/unattended vehicles, it's not a huge leap someone asshat is going to apply that same (flawed) logic to ammunition in a parked/unattended vehicle as well.

 

[Arto]

how about a "cachet" of ammo?
like Creedmoor Match?
the state of being respected or admired; prestige.
"no other shipping company had quite the cachet of Cunard"
synonyms: prestige, status, standing, clout, kudos, snob value, stature, preeminence, eminence; street credibility

 

[Shotgun Scully]

Idiots
let them feel the pain

 

[Garys]

Idiots
let them feel the pain

I wonder if these were the guys?

 

[slap shot]

they deserve to get boned but i'm also wondering what the improper ammo storage actually is for.

 

[MAJoe]

they deserve to get boned but i'm also wondering what the improper ammo storage actually is for.

My understanding is if the vehicle is parked, it's storage and not transport. The ammo would be treated the same as in your home (locked up). The firearms could be loaded, but secured, and trigger locks would be sufficient. As soon as the vehicle is underway, it would fall under transport. Then, there is no requirement to secure ammo, but trigger locks are no longer good and weapons must be secured, etc.

 

[drgrant]

Ammo in MA is supposed to be kept in/with their original boxes, so maybe that's the basis of the charges?

There is no such charge and that's probably going to get dropped/discarded in about 10 minutes flat. Even that "original boxes" bullshit is CMR and not MGL. It's a fire safety regulation.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Maybe the ammo was stored with the firearms?

Ammo in MA is supposed to be kept in/with their original boxes, so maybe that's the basis of the charges?

Thought this was in the home safe?

Not in its original boxes.

527 CMR 13.04(1)(e)

My understanding is if the vehicle is parked, it's storage and not transport. The ammo would be treated the same as in your home (locked up). The firearms could be loaded, but secured, and trigger locks would be sufficient. As soon as the vehicle is underway, it would fall under transport. Then, there is no requirement to secure ammo, but trigger locks are no longer good and weapons must be secured, etc.

To all of the above. Please cite the specific law or regulation that says those things!

Per my fire chief: 527 CMR 1.00 replaced 527 CMR 13.00 on 1/1/2015 AND it only applies to storage in a home, NOT a vehicle or transportation. The 2 CMRs I mentioned have different storage limits and I still see 13.00 quoted and still "around" so I'll admit confusion here on which one is the real deal. Also per CMR, jurisdiction is strictly the fire department NOT the police. So Mike has it right below, there is no crime . . . unless there is some obscure hunting regulation I haven't heard of yet. Keep in mind "vehicle" could easily be the boat, as in the media or police using the wrong term . . . I don't know if there are any ammo storage requirements on boats.

There is no such charge and that's probably going to get dropped/discarded in about 10 minutes flat. Even that "original boxes" bullshit is CMR and not MGL. It's a fire safety regulation.

-Mike

 

[MisterHappy]

len,

Thanks for the clarification WRT the updated CMRs.

AFAIK, there's no hunting regs on ammo storage. I never thought it would stick, or be pursued, with so much low-hanging fruit in the failboat.

 

[MAJoe]

To all of the above. Please cite the specific law or regulation that says those things!

Per my fire chief: 527 CMR 1.00 replaced 527 CMR 13.00 on 1/1/2015 AND it only applies to storage in a home, NOT a vehicle or transportation. The 2 CMRs I mentioned have different storage limits and I still see 13.00 quoted and still "around" so I'll admit confusion here on which one is the real deal. Also per CMR, jurisdiction is strictly the fire department NOT the police. So Mike has it right below, there is no crime . . . unless there is some obscure hunting regulation I haven't heard of yet. Keep in mind "vehicle" could easily be the boat, as in the media or police using the wrong term . . . I don't know if there are any ammo storage requirements on boats.

To clarify, when a vehicle is parked, MGLs for storage instead of transport apply, but not for ammunition? That is confusing as hell.

 

[MGnoob]

Imagine going down for doing somthing so stupid.i guess thats how it usually happens though.
Maybe they wont crusify them, maybe the birds they shot that were out of season self idenitfied as the birds that was in season.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

To clarify, when a vehicle is parked, MGLs for storage instead of transport apply, but not for ammunition? That is confusing as hell.

MGLs for storage and transport refer to firearms, not ammunition. As Len and others have pointed out; ammunition storage is coverd by CMRs and only refer to storage in the home.

 

[MAJoe]

MGLs for storage and transport refer to firearms, not ammunition. As Len and others have pointed out; ammunition storage is coverd by CMRs and only refer to storage in the home.

Gotcha, thanks. Wonder how these charges will play out then.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Gotcha, thanks. Wonder how these charges will play out then.

Based on my experience testifying, unless the accused has a gun law knowledgeable attorney or they bring in an expert witness, the judge/jury will probably convict (more likely the guy will take a PP plea deal even if it is bogus). The average attorney/public defender is defenseless against this sort of railroading.

 

[knfmn]

IMO, the biggest offense in this whole incident was stupidity. These guys were shooting at birds while they were driving the boat and had birds out of season and over the limit. I'm not a fan of most of the laws in MA, but they really were asking for it doing all this stupid stuff while they had a bunch of unsecured guns and ammo in their vehicle.

 

[rblank]

So I was actually starting to research this recently. I have to go to a meeting at my son's school in the AM, and obviously can't carry on school property. My intent was to lock my unloaded firearm in a case and store it in a second lockable storage cubbie under the rear seat of my truck.

My confusion is if I can store the mags in the same case as the unloaded gun, or if I have to store them in a separate lockable storage cubbie under the other seat or center console?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Legally in MA ammo can be stored next to the unloaded gun (which is in a locked container) in a MV.

However one case a judge stated/ruled that even with a LTC, possession of ammo/guns anywhere on school property was illegal. That is NOT what the MGL says, but take heed to this warning about how people are prosecuted.

 

[rblank]

Thank you Len. One of these days soon I'll be signing up for your course so I don;t need to keep wondering these things.