In need of a safe, current Winchester died

teamRR

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I guess it would be worth looking into how to replace safe parts but I really don't like the idea of a manual dial versus electric, they are really a pain to use day to day and I like being able to reprogram mine. Have 3 of the same tractor supply model and am about to get a 4th.

One of my small electrics is a little Sentry fire safe I bought at Walmart close to 15 years ago, has been in some awful humid environments and shows it, going strong still from what I can tell. No doubt they all will fail a lot sooner than a manual safe but it would not surprise me to hear they can take 300,000 cycles or something outragous before normally wearing out (ie we will all be dead by then). Mechanics and locksmiths only see the ones that fail, sometimes they don't realize how small a percentage that represents.
 
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There is no Winchester TS 24 to the best of my knowledge. The model names are a little funky, the TS 22 actually holds 24 firearms according to the specifications. There should be a sticker on the inside edge of the door with the model and serial number.

View attachment 382496

I wish I could be of more help. My TS 22 still has the original lock and keypad and I am getting concerned about it failing due to the age. Mine was purchased in 2013. I ordered the S&G Lock from Amazon. As soon as it arrives I have a friend who is a locksmith and he is going to change the lock for me. I'll have more specific data at that point in time.

Thanks for the info. I will look at it tonight and see which one I have.
 

LuvDog

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For the folks who say that the electronic keypad can just be replaced... does that mean you could buy your own keypad... then go to some random safe, pop off the lock and connect your keypad and open the safe?
 

teamRR

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For the folks who say that the electronic keypad can just be replaced... does that mean you could buy your own keypad... then go to some random safe, pop off the lock and connect your keypad and open the safe?

No, I'm quite sure either the code is actually stored elsewhere in the safe or the keypad pairs with the safe in a manner that is hidden, ie safe SN run through a key gets a code to pair it with the safe and then the keypad gets control - or both.

If the code is stored on the safe you might be able to take a keypad with the same code, hook it up and would be good to go. But again you would need to know the original code..

Would be great to hear an informed explanation.
 

teamRR

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I do remember reading in the manual somewhere that with proof of purchase and the SN they could give you a code to open the safe. That indicates most likely the code (plus a default code the manufacturer knows) is programmed on the safe, and that keypads might just be purely a remote control, ie code you punch in is verified within the safe in some other part, reprogramming similarly just sets a new code in the safe.
 

Rim Job

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Keypad has shipped, should be here Monday. From what I've read online, the 6 digit code is NOT stored on the keypad. It is stored on a separate chipset inside the door.

And you guys disappoint me. Somebody asks about buying a bigger safe and you're all like 'Don't do it!' , 'Keep what you have!'

You should be pointing me to a bank being demolished and looking to offload their vault!
 

LuvDog

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Keypad has shipped, should be here Monday. From what I've read online, the 6 digit code is NOT stored on the keypad. It is stored on a separate chipset inside the door.

And you guys disappoint me. Somebody asks about buying a bigger safe and you're all like 'Don't do it!' , 'Keep what you have!'

You should be pointing me to a bank being demolished and looking to offload their vault!

OK. so if the code is stored on a chip in the door, then by buying a replacement keypad, we're assuming the keypad isn't working, right? I can see that... those pressure switches on soft keypads go bad all the time.

You'll replace the keypad and enter the old code and it should unlock, or at least that's the logic right?

And you should definitely buy a bigger and newer safe when you're done.
I think the majority of people were saying to not take a cutoff wheel or torch to your current safe, since it can most likely be opened and not destroyed.
 

Rob Boudrie

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No, I'm quite sure either the code is actually stored elsewhere in the safe or the keypad pairs with the safe in a manner that is hidden, ie safe SN run through a key gets a code to pair it with the safe and then the keypad gets control - or both.

If the code is stored on the safe you might be able to take a keypad with the same code, hook it up and would be good to go. But again you would need to know the original code..

Would be great to hear an informed explanation.
The combination is stored in the lock body inside the safe, not the keypad.
 

Rob Boudrie

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I guess it would be worth looking into how to replace safe parts but I really don't like the idea of a manual dial versus electric, they are really a pain to use day to day and I like being able to reprogram mine. Have 3 of the same tractor supply model and am about to get a 4th.
Changing a dial combination is easy but requires a special tool - generally the U8 or U9 S&G combination change key - both work, the U9 is longer for use if you are reaching the lock through a panel you leave in place. Once you've become comfortable with the combo opening should take about 10 seconds if you always spin the dial 4 times to the left when locking so it is prepped to dial in the numbers.

Be careful ordering combo locks on the internet, and they are frequently take-offs from safes, not new stock.

#1: There are multiple models of S&G 3 wheel locks. You'll rarely see a 66xx series (Group IIm), and don't really need anything beyond Group II on a gun safe. S&G makes a regular 3 wheel Group II that is the de facto standard (6730) and a el-cheapo version with zinc, er I mean zymac, wheels and levers (6741). If you want to be sure, have the seller show you a photo of the lock with the back off - if the wheels and lever are gray instead of brass, you have the cheapo price-point version. If they are red, you have a Big Red Big Redâ„¢ Safe Locks - Mechanical Safe Locks which is an upstart competitor of S&G that looks pretty decent.

#2: Many are take-offs from gun safes being "upgraded" to electronic. The spindle is attached to the lock by a press-fit single use piece called the "spline key". Do NOT try to re-use these; just get a new one. Better - have a few handy when you install in case you have to goof and pull the spline key out. When buying a take-off lock be sure to ask if it comes with a new spline key or just the one taken off when de-installing the lock. mbusa.com sells these for $1.34 each (plus shipping) S&G SPLINE KEY - 6600, 6700, 8500

#3: The combo change comes in the package with the lock, but often does not come with the safe. Eastern Security does not include this by default and downgrades your warranty if you insist - but despite being called a "key" it is really a "tool" so one fits all locks of a particular series. If the vendor is selling a take-off, you may need to include a combon change tool along with your spline key order. S&G CHANGE KEY - 3 WHEEL

---------------------

This tool is really quite interesting: Phoenix 4.0 | Taylor Technologies

It will open most of the common brand name electronic locks, except the ones with federal standards approval (Kaba-Mas X-##series; S&g 2740). The consumer grade locks "leak" information when buttons are pressed. There are differences in things like current draw, duration of draw, time for led to come on, etc. depending on the validity of what is entered. When I asked the regional S&G rep if this tool could actually open an S&G Titan D-Drive, I was told "yes, but you are in greater danger from more common threats". I still don't understand why UL allows these locks to continue to have a Group I manipulation proof rating, or why that is not usually a Group I-R (given they ignore the Phoenix technique).
 
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teamRR

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Keypad has shipped, should be here Monday. From what I've read online, the 6 digit code is NOT stored on the keypad. It is stored on a separate chipset inside the door.

And you guys disappoint me. Somebody asks about buying a bigger safe and you're all like 'Don't do it!' , 'Keep what you have!'

You should be pointing me to a bank being demolished and looking to offload their vault!

I hear about it a lot, ie safe movers come in with the new and out with the old, but I don’t the point in ever replacing a good safe.

Some day I will have more space and very well might get a big $$ ultra secure large model to store most of a collection - even then keeping smaller ones around for a bedroom closet, or for basic security and fire protection for ammo & valuable parts would be an outstanding option.
 

LuvDog

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If I ever buy an electronic lock safe, I'll just call Rob or take a picture and have him tell me how to change it over to manual.... or better yet, ask him to stop by my house on his way to the club
 

Len-2A Training

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OK. so if the code is stored on a chip in the door, then by buying a replacement keypad, we're assuming the keypad isn't working, right? I can see that... those pressure switches on soft keypads go bad all the time.

You'll replace the keypad and enter the old code and it should unlock, or at least that's the logic right?
Yes, I had the electronic keypad go bad on a safe. Eastern shipped me a new keypad, plugged it in and it works just fine. No changes to anything necessary.

Last time I looked, which was a month or so ago, I am pretty sure that all the ones listed were made in China.
Liberty Safes are made in the USA. I'm not sure if any other mfrs build in the US.
 

NHKevin

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Yes, I had the electronic keypad go bad on a safe. Eastern shipped me a new keypad, plugged it in and it works just fine. No changes to anything necessary.


Liberty Safes are made in the USA. I'm not sure if any other mfrs build in the US.
Liberty might be made in the US, but they are still sheet metal wrapped around drywall.
 

Asaltweapon

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My Eastern electronic just stopped working one day while I was changing the battery. No warning no nothing. For some odd reason the lock reverted back to the factory setting.
I was just happy it happened when the door was open. Good thing as the paperwork was inside the safe!!!
 
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There is no Winchester TS 24 to the best of my knowledge. The model names are a little funky, the TS 22 actually holds 24 firearms according to the specifications. There should be a sticker on the inside edge of the door with the model and serial number.

View attachment 382496

I wish I could be of more help. My TS 22 still has the original lock and keypad and I am getting concerned about it failing due to the age. Mine was purchased in 2013. I ordered the S&G Lock from Amazon. As soon as it arrives I have a friend who is a locksmith and he is going to change the lock for me. I'll have more specific data at that point in time.

I have the TS-22 😂😂
 

Rob Boudrie

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Yes, I had the electronic keypad go bad on a safe. Eastern shipped me a new keypad, plugged it in and it works just fine. No changes to anything necessary.
This is either very easy or a pain depending on the lock model.

Some electronic locks (For example, the S&G Titan D-Drive and probably the Titan swingbolt and Spartan models, and well as the old LaGard basic model) have a cable coming from the keypad that plugs into the lock case inside the safe. Connecting a new keypad into one of these requires cutting the existing cable to the lock body that protrudes from the safe. The best move here is to attach a female socket to the cable coming from the safe so you do not need to cut the cable going to the new keypad.

The famous Michael Bane had a lockout problem with a Canon safe that was solved with a new keypad - and, in the process, discovered that Canon's "lifetime warranty" covered the lock but not lockout service or lockout entry damage.

Champion Safe was made in Utah around 2000 and their website still claims Made in USA.
 

watchman

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Liberty Safes are made in the USA. I'm not sure if any other mfrs build in the US.

There are more American made safes than you think the reason you don't hear about them on NES is because they cost more than $400.00 and well
skinflints are going to skinflint. Thanks @drgrant for that finely crafted phrase.
 
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I have the same safe as OP. I had electronic lock problem like OP and contacted Winchester and they replaced it (sent a locksnith out and I had to share with him the master code than Winchester shared with me).

Al that said I am moving to free state and don't want to bring mine with me. It's honestly barely better than trash at the moment, as I had a flood (gun s all moved) and the drywall interior was all ruined so I ripped it all out. Also, I recently changed the combo because the top row (1-4, especially 1 and 2) sticking and not reliable.

Free to anyone who will co.e and help get it out of my basement (refrigerator dolly should do the trick) by Sept 2.

Squire
 

wjsmall97

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Don't buy a Canon safe, they filed for bankruptcy, and no one answers there phones ( the 1-800 # or the other number that I used to contact them before). Is any one familiar with the Browning safes ?
 
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