Inherited guns coming into Mass

[traveler57]

Okay,
I have inherited some long guns (carbine, shotguns, rifles) from my father in Arkansas and want to bring them into mass. He also has some handguns but that is another BIG problem, since they are not on the approved list of hand guns, and were not in Mass before 1994.

I think I have studied all the laws and postings, and forums.
(I have an LTC A ALP.)

Here is what I understand the law to be for long guns:
1. I can ship the long guns to myself, directly, while I am in Arkansas. And simply file the FA10 form with my police dept within 7 days. Under Arkansas law the longs guns are fully legal for me to own in Arkansas.
2. The guns are not large capacity and are not on the 2002 Large Capacity Weapons Roster. If they were large cap, would this change anything?
3. I can ship them unloaded in unmarked boxes with the USPS, or UPS.
I think FEDEX and DHL are still not allowing firearms. It doesn't necessily have to be overnight shipping.


Handguns (just to clarify the differences).
1. Have to shipped between FFL in both states.
2. Have to be legal in Mass. (including AG regs)
3. Have to be shipped overnight.
4. Almost never done in MA due to our strict laws and limited list of "approved" handguns. (But could be if the exact same model new gun was on the approved list and on the AGs list. ie. I saw it for sale at FS in Mass.)

I looking for members comments or actual experiences with shipping their own firearms to themselves. Am I correct on my points? Close?

I know someone will say that I "should" use 2 FFLs to do the transfer, but this is not required by MA or FED law for long guns.

I will be in Arkansas next week to do the inventory, and if I double check Ark. law with my friend's gun shop in Arkansas, I hope to ship some back while I am there.

Thanks for anyone's comments or experiences.

Dan

 

[Len-2A Training]

Traveler,

First accept my condolences on the loss of your Father!

No, you have most of what you posted wrong. Luckily the facts are in your favor. I'm pretty sure I've covered this turf before on this forum so you might do a search. If I'm wrong, then I posted it in ARFcom.

Facts:
- LTC-A allows you to own anything that you've described here.
- On inheritance, you can legally take direct possession of any guns/mags (except those that might be "No Ban") and bring them back from Arkansas with you or ship them to yourself back here DIRECTLY. NO FFLs INVOLVED.
- You do FA-10s on each gun when they arrive back in MA as a "Registration".
- Irrelevant to your case . . . just for info only . . . the "in state" date is only for handguns and it is 10/21/98. The date for hi-caps mags is 9/13/94 and it's only required that they were manufactured by that date . . . they could be anywhere in the world.
- There is NO requirement for inherited handguns to be on anyone's list, date of mfr is irrelevant (other than "No Ban" hi cap mags).
- You can ship all of them via UPS or FedEx (ground is OK for long guns, air for handguns). You can ship long guns ONLY via USPS (but be forewarned, they almost never pay off on insurance losses).
- IF you involve a MA FFL, you WILL LOSE all the handguns . . . he will NOT be able to transfer them to you, regardless of the fact that they were inherited. Both Fed and MA laws allow you to directly take inherited guns with no FFL . . . using an FFL for handguns is "deadly" with our laws.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Inheritance

>2. Have to be legal in Mass. (including AG regs)

Just to clarify Len's point:

Chapter 180 requirements and AG regs only apply if the gun is transferred via a "purveyor of handguns", which is an entity with a MA license to sell firearms.

Inheritance is one of the loopholes in Chapter 180 reqirements and AG requirements.

 

[dwarven1]

I have inherited some long guns (carbine, shotguns, rifles) from my father in Arkansas and want to bring them into mass.
Dan

Dan, my condolences on your loss.

Ross

 

[traveler57]

Len,
ng
I am sure glad I found this forum, since so far I have gotten mis-information from others on this question. (And knowing your past answers on various questions, I tend to use you as a GOOD sourse.)

And, I see where my confusion is coming from. It is the MA laws that apply to "purveyors" of firearms (i.e. dealers/FFL) and the inherited guns are "already owned" by me, just in another state. So, now reading your reply and re-reading the M.G.L. it is starting to make sense that inherited guns are "outside the box."

So, even my Dad's Llama 380 is okay to ship to myself... This was always a neat little gun, since it was styled (1970) as a mini-1911.
And I don't think he had any AW guns at all.

So, yes my misinformation is now great news for me.;

Thanks as always.
I

 

[Len-2A Training]

Glad to help you out!

Enjoy the Llama!

 

[traveler57]

Okay, now to help further get the facts straight. (And maybe why I was a bit confused, on my fathers guns vs. buying out-of-state.)

So, if I see a great gun today (I am in Arkansas right now) and I want to buy it. Two part question.
1. If it is a rifle/shotgun (non AW) can I simply buy it and ship it to myself?

2. If it is a handgun, can I simply buy it, and ship it to myself?
(I can already guess that this can't be possible, otherwise all the Mass handgun laws would be out the window.) But what if I find a pistol that is on the "approved list?" Can I buy this one in Arkansas and ship it to myself? (Getting past the AG rules on the FFLs?)

Again, it seems that I can't put the FED law and Mass law into an answer on my own. Thanks again for your great help.

BTW- I did find some posts on inherited guns within Mass and one on shipping a rifle owned by a Mass resident back from Wisconsin after hunting. But I didn't find one on my situation.

And thanks on the condolences, as his passing was what inspired me to exercise my 2nd amendments rights after 25 years in Mass.

 

[KMaurer]

Federal law allows a person to purchase a rifle or shotgun in any state, as long as the laws of that state and their state of resident don't prohibit it. Handguns, however cannot be purchased from an individual or dealer in any state other than the state of residence. If you find a handgun out of state that you'd like, your going to have to have it transfered through an FFL in your state of residence. IOW, you can't beat the AG this way. The only ways around him are (1) inheritance, (2) moving here with the gun, (3) dual residency. or (4) private sales in-state.

Ken

 

[traveler57]

Thanks Ken, this confirms what I was thinking. And inheritance seems to one of the exceptions to the normal rules for FFL transfer of a handgun.

So, I am back to where I thought I was (I think.) It would only be for a very, very good price on a MA legal handgun, before it was worth the effort to buy it out of state. And my last two purchases at FS were as good as any price on gunsamerica.com.

Thanks again.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I know that Ken knows this but he didn't type in a very important point.

You can NOT purchase a long gun out-of-state from anyone except an FFL. You can bring it back with you or you can ship it to yourself (ground).

Fed Law requires all out-of-state handgun transfers via an FFL in your home state, only exception is inheritance.

 

[traveler57]

Okay still a question

First, thanks to all this info. You guys are really helping me muddle through the MA law.

From the posts of Len, Ken, Rob, I can't seem to put them all together and be sure on the FA-10 requirement for inherited guns. Do I still have to put inherited guns on an FA-10. I think I am reading everyone as saying "yes" but I want to confirm, before I go get the forms from my local PD.

Also, do I put my name on both sides of the transfer, To: and From:? Or do they really want me to put my father (deceased) on the "From" line?

Dan

 

[Adam_MA]

Just check the "Registration" box on the top and your name only once.

Adam

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don't need any info on WHERE/WHO you got the guns from on a "Registration".

Registration is for the following types of usage (not intended to be inclusive):

- Inheritance,
- Obtained on C&R FFL from out-of-state source,
- Brought into MA by person who moves guns into MA AFTER they officially moved in/became a legal MA Resident,
- Brought into MA from your 2nd home in another state,
- Bought in-state from someone on your C&R FFL where other party didn't do an FA-10 with you,
- etc.

 

[traveler57]

Got the FA10 form

Okay,

Just picked up the FA10 forms from my local PD. (And no, the dispatcher at the desk didn't know what I was asking for.)

Yes, it now makes sense (yeah, right, like MA laws really make any sense) and I just check off "Registration" and fill in the gun info and my info in the "Buyer/Purchaser" section.

I will fill them out tonight and get them in the mail to the Firearms Record Bureau.

thanks to all. See you at the range

 

[lagrangian]

Good to hear all that info on inheritance. Very interesting.

But how does it work with gifts? Assuming I get my LTC-A (I just took MRA's class, so will shortly be sending in the application -- crossing my fingers that Arlington's "green" reputation holds up for me) I have a relative in PA who has a bunch of guns (both long guns and handguns) that he doesn't want to keep any more and would like to give to me. Does gifting trigger the same "loophole" as inheritance, or do all the various "list" rules still apply to received gifts of guns?

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, gifts are NOT exempt from the Fed or State Laws . . . only inheritance, after the person is dead.

Chief Ron Glidden has stated before that one can loan a gun to a friend/relative and put it in their wills that upon passing, the gun will belong to the person it was loaned to. Thus, no FFL, no transfer (as gun still legally belongs to owner until his/her death) and upon passing it becomes legally owned in MA (FA-10 gets done at that time as noted above).

 

[KMaurer]

And since there is no federal exemption for gifts as there is for inheritances, the only you someone can give a handgun to a resident of another state is to transfer it through an FFL in the recipient's state. Thus, your friends can't give you any handguns that aren't on the EOPS approved list or that don't satisfy the AG's regulations.

Ken

 

[Scrivener]

Think it through

"Does gifting trigger the same "loophole" as inheritance, or do all the various "list" rules still apply to received gifts of guns?"

You don't inherit from living people.

In other words; NO, the inheritance exception does NOT apply and all rules controlling interstate transfers DO apply.

As the AFR does not apply to long arms, only "assault weapons" would be an issue. Handguns must be on the AFR and meet the AG's regulations in order to be transferred to a Mass. resident.

 

[dwarven1]

Re: Got the FA10 form

Just picked up the FA10 forms from my local PD. (And no, the dispatcher at the desk didn't know what I was asking for.)

Last week I had to pick up an FA10 from the Marlboro PD and spoke to their training officer. HE didn't even know what an FA-10 was! When I explained what form it was, he recognized it immediately; he just didn't know what the number was.

 

[traveler57]

Registration is for the following types of usage (not intended to be inclusive):
- Brought into MA from your 2nd home in another state,
.

Okay, Len, now you got me thinking. I am sure that there has to be a "date when purchased" clause in this one, somewhere. Otherwise, I would just buy anything in my 2nd home state, and then do a registration on it when I come back to Mass. This would seem to imply getting around the FFL transfer requirement and "the list." Longguns can already be purchased at any out-of-state FFL, and then registered when I get back. But I am thinking about pistols for this question.

There are many states, like Arkansas that don't have any restrictions on who owns a gun in that state. (Their restriction laws deal with carrying concealed, but not just simple ownership.) So I could buy a gun, put it
at my 2nd home, then later just move it to MA??? And if the local FFL doesn't want to sell a gun to you, then just do a F2F purchase with someone locally in the 2nd home state, selling a gun.

What am I missing here?

 

[Len-2A Training]

Registration is for the following types of usage (not intended to be inclusive):
- Brought into MA from your 2nd home in another state,
.

Okay, Len, now you got me thinking. I am sure that there has to be a "date when purchased" clause in this one, somewhere. Otherwise, I would just buy anything in my 2nd home state, and then do a registration on it when I come back to Mass. This would seem to imply getting around the FFL transfer requirement and "the list." Longguns can already be purchased at any out-of-state FFL, and then registered when I get back. But I am thinking about pistols for this question.

There are many states, like Arkansas that don't have any restrictions on who owns a gun in that state. (Their restriction laws deal with carrying concealed, but not just simple ownership.) So I could buy a gun, put it
at my 2nd home, then later just move it to MA??? And if the local FFL doesn't want to sell a gun to you, then just do a F2F purchase with someone locally in the 2nd home state, selling a gun.

What am I missing here?

Fed Law is in play here.

BATFE defines that anyone who owns a second residence in another state CAN be considered a resident of the 2nd state (for the purposes of buying guns) if they are living there for an extended period of time. Best to check the BATFE website for exact info (it's in their Q&A FAQ).

Problem is that many dealers will NOT sell to you unless you have a DL, car registration or other proof that you live there year round/vote there . . . something that you can not do in 2 places at one time.

If under Fed Law you can be considered a Resident of some other state, then you can buy guns under whatever the Fed and State laws are there. Yes, you can bring it back to MA as long as it isn't banned here, and do a FA-10 for each one as a Registration. It's perfectly legal.

 

[namedpipes]

Reviving with a couple questions as this thread is 10 years old...

Is this still true now:

If one inherits handguns from someone in another state, you can bring them back to Mass (or ship them to yourself in Mass) and simply FA-10 them to yourself not specifying the "seller". No FFL involved at either end. You must be named specifically in the will as the recipient?

Under these circumstances, what carrier is used? Fed Ex? UPS? Do you declare (to the carrier) what it is or just put the unlabeled box on the counter?

Ammunition - can he ship it to himself? Does he have to affix ORM-D labels, same questions on the declaration.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Stop. I'm out of popcorn. Jack.

 

[jpm]

You MUST use an ORM-D label and ship ground only using either UPS or Fedex for ammo. You cannot ship primers or powder without a hazmat permit. You have to ship primed cases the same as ammo (ORM-D and ground).

 

[DW357]

Must use UPS or FedEx to ship the guns. Only FFL's can use the USPS to ship handguns. You must declare them as firearms.

 

[CrackPot]

Must use UPS or FedEx to ship the guns. Only FFL's can use the USPS to ship handguns. You must declare them as firearms.

Certainly USPS policy but I as an FFL I cannot tell you how many private sellers have sent me handguns USPS priority mail (it is the cheapest way after all). No insurance, no declaration, no worries I think has been the general policy applied.

Not advocating anything, just reporting on experience...

 

[namedpipes]

Stop. I'm out of popcorn. Jack.

Hey, I'm just trying to pass on good, complete and current help to the guy. As a for instance, I learned last night that I hadn't noticed the limit on primers was increased from 1k to 10k.

You MUST use an ORM-D label and ship ground only using either UPS or Fedex for ammo. You cannot ship primers or powder without a hazmat permit. You have to ship primed cases the same as ammo (ORM-D and ground).

I doubt if he cares that much about the ammo - that was a side question. But if he does send it, this ^^^. Thanks.

Must use UPS or FedEx to ship the guns. Only FFL's can use the USPS to ship handguns. You must declare them as firearms.

Certainly USPS policy but I as an FFL I cannot tell you how many private sellers have sent me handguns USPS priority mail (it is the cheapest way after all). No insurance, no declaration, no worries I think has been the general policy applied.

Not advocating anything, just reporting on experience...

I don't think he cares about a few extra bucks in shipping, just wants to make sure he does it right.


Thanks everyone.

 

[Jay1391]

So my search led me to this old thread.
I’m inheriting from out of state (I’m in MA, deceased from RI). I know in need to FA-10 but…
With the updated EFA-10 there are now separate options to click for “Registration” or “Inheritance”.
Which one should be used for inherited firearms from a Rhode Island resident?
If I click on “inheritance” then it asks for the decedent’s FID or license number? Would you only use the “inheritance” option if both are MA license holders?

 

[Palladin]

with THIS going on.......I wouldn't be admitting to inheriting anything

Illegal Data Release Massachusetts

GOAL Teams with Comm2A in Response to State’s Unlawful Data Release Gun Owners’ Action League (GOAL) and the Commonwealth Second Amendment (Comm2A) have teamed up in response to an unlawful data release that includes very specific information on firearm transfers in Massachusetts. We were...

www.northeastshooters.com

 

[Mesatchornug]

Pretty sure @Len-2A Training has said that the inheritance link is not right.