Interesting blog on "gun influencers", (not gun bunnies, no pictures).

[drgrant]

He admits they made a bad product, at one point he mentions something about how size doesn't matter because these people will not carry.

What he fails to understand is that while the noob probably won't care, the person they ask for advice might.

If you are going to go after a saturated market (because the $350-550 market is saturated), you better build something good, not just OK because you assume people won't care.

Market saturation is something he also fails to understand, GLOCK, SIG, SW, Ruger, FN ... those 5, with Glock, SIG and SW at the top, flood stores with guns, could maybe add Kimber to that list as well. Bro, you are entering a tough market with a lot of supply, your product better be cheap AF or have some really good reason why people should choose it. Looks like neither of those requirement were met, the product was average on pricing and sh*t on features.

Krapber doesnt make enough guns to even be relevant at least not in the bulk-gun-space. Most of their stuff is priced above that.

 

[Broc]

Krapber doesnt make enough guns to even be relevant at least not in the bulk-gun-space. Most of their stuff is priced above that.

Ok. I thought they did, we just don't see them in MA.

Only because they are mentioned several times on NES and they seem to be advertising on every damn gun magazine.

 

[Mesatchornug]

He admits they made a bad product, at one point he mentions something about how size doesn't matter because these people will not carry.

I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here and saying they were targeting the full-frame duty pistol size when he says size doesn't matter; following the tired "full-sized guns are easier to control" argument.

What he fails to understand is that while the noob probably won't care, the person they ask for advice might.

If you are going to go after a saturated market (because the $350-550 market is saturated), you better build something good, not just OK because you assume people won't care.

completely agreed.

 

[meh]

It sounds to me like they had a theory about what should sell more than an understanding of what would sell. He wants me to believe their product didn't sell because of an elite group of influencers. Apparently, I'm not buying that, either.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

marketers to get trial samples in the hands of reviewers who would appropriately compare it if they really wanted it to sell. Sometimes people will hate your product, even when you did a good job of it. But more likely, he's excusing bad decisions and corner cutting as "value engineering." No friend, you made a bad product.

Sigma vs. M&P. It sounds like this writer was doing a history of the Sigma.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Sigma vs. M&P. It sounds like this writer was doing a history of the Sigma.

Were youtube/influencers a thing yet when the Sigma came out?

 

[drgrant]

Especially since it was the job of those marketers to get trial samples in the hands of reviewers who would appropriately compare it if they really wanted it to sell. Sometimes people will hate your product, even when you did a good job of it. But more likely, he's excusing bad decisions and corner cutting as "value engineering." No friend, you made a bad product.

To further diminish his whining, here's a gun-influencer-vet*, giving a reasonably balanced review of a $400 pistol that will never be a Glock-killer

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pECNo8QZro


*granted, John isn't e.g. Mat Best...but I'm sure the article's author doesn't see a ton of difference there

Sometimes the product is just "meh" or the placement is poor.

like it was the Remington RP9 or something like that. Problem is there are a bunch of other guns in this space (like what broc is talking about).

Also I am thinking of the type of gun built vs something like a bottom peer like the Taurus G3 nowadays (which may not have been out when his gun was released) but still... that barrier
to entry is pretty stiff. Unless your S&W or Ruger, you're not selling guns worse than a G3 in that market space. easily. (they can make junk and win because their branding is only a few steps down from say Harley Davidson).

Yeah bro, Good luck with that.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMWsO_-X7Y

 

[drgrant]

Sigma vs. M&P. It sounds like this writer was doing a history of the Sigma.

Meh, maybe, but influencers didnt exist 100 yrs ago.

And even today, even the newer Smegmas that arent really smegmas, those guns are still hot sellers

Becuase SW branding cult. etc. They never had to whore those out either so it cant be that gun

 

[Mesatchornug]

Sometimes the product is just "meh" or the placement is poor.

like it was the Remington RP9 or something like that. Problem is there are a bunch of other guns in this space (like what broc is talking about).

Also I am thinking of the type of gun built vs something like a bottom peer like the Taurus G3 nowadays (which may not have been out when his gun was released) but still... that barrier
to entry is pretty stiff. Unless your S&W or Ruger, you're not selling guns worse than a G3 in that market space. easily. (they can make junk and win because their branding is only a few steps down from say Harley Davidson).

Yeah bro, Good luck with that.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkMWsO_-X7Y

One of the replies to the article mentioned the R1, like your RP9. Others in here mentioned the XD series. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those is right - Remington and Springfield each have enough name recognition to hope they could enter that market. And their engineers might understandably get butt hurt when they learn their baby is ugly

 

[StevieP]

We get the outdoor channel and I am influenced every Wednesday evening.

Larry Potterfield is my influencer.

 

[Broc]

There's too much time out of my life I won't get back.

The guy denies his own premise in his conclusion. To wit, his premise:

"They are going to buy from a major big-box sporting good retailer (Academy Sports, Bass Pro Shops, etc.) where they feel comfortable. They want a gun that is from a brand with a known quality reputation, a warranty, and is reasonably priced with an MSRP ideally $399.99. The target consumer for this gun is going to go to Bass Pro or Academy or any one of those types of stores and ask for a pistol for home defense. They are going to look at the price first. The guy behind the counter will pull out a few guns in the same $400 range. The buyer will pick them up and decide based on what feels best in their hand is the one they want. If one model happens to be on special that day, that one will probably be the one sold."

Then later, in his conclusion:

"A lot of guys who sign up to work behind the counter at these retailers are gun guys. First-time buyers rely on the knowledge of the guy behind the counter or their gun guy friends for advice. So now the gun guy friend or the gun guy behind the counter is asked for their sage advice, they repeat what YouTube McVetBro-Douche said."

So...which is it? Are they first-time buyers, who are going to grab the first gun and "decide based on what feels best in their hand is the one they want. If one model happens to be on special that day, that one will probably be the one sold," or is it "First-time buyers rely on the knowledge of the guy behind the counter or their gun guy friends?" Because you can't have both.

Besides, when was the last time you ran into a "gun guy" behind the counter at Bass Pro?

The guy is an idiot. It is very common for engineers to not know how the market or corporate world works outside their bubble. I see if every day.

It really shows when they get angry.

Ps: this is not a shot at the NES engineers. You all know what I mean.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Ps: this is not a shot at the NES engineers. You all know what I mean.

We all deserve it sometimes

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

That was entirely too long of an article for what boiled down to "I'm still salty over rejection and they hurt my feelings".

I'd so love to know which gun it was he worked on that was rejected by Mr. Youtube McVetBro. Given the start to finish process he describes, it must be one of the larger companies, as I'm betting some of the smaller companies consolidate a lot of those roles into one person. My money is on Beretta APX. Fits many of the things he mentioned.

 

[Broc]

That was entirely too long of an article for what boiled down to "I'm still salty over rejection and they hurt my feelings".

I'd so love to know which gun it was he worked on that was rejected by Mr. Youtube McVetBro. Given the start to finish process he describes, it must be one of the larger companies, as I'm betting some of the smaller companies consolidate a lot of those roles into one person. My money is on Beretta APX. Fits many of the things he mentioned.

Probably Hi Point

Hi Point dont give a sh*t and I am pretty sure everyone thst works there does not give a sh*t about influencers. Hi Point just makes guns that are almost impossible to blow up. But they are ugly AF.

 

[drgrant]

That was entirely too long of an article for what boiled down to "I'm still salty over rejection and they hurt my feelings".

I'd so love to know which gun it was he worked on that was rejected by Mr. Youtube McVetBro. Given the start to finish process he describes, it must be one of the larger companies, as I'm betting some of the smaller companies consolidate a lot of those roles into one person. My money is on Beretta APX. Fits many of the things he mentioned.

There are too many failures in/near that segment to list....

Beretta APX, Remington RP9, RP51... Ruger American.

Then there are other guns that failed through bad luck. For example the original Caracal C was a great gun but the recall ND bs basically killed the gun.

The XDs were never sold that cheap so it can't be that. (he mentions a blowout sale of the guns at a point).

 

[drgrant]

Probably Hi Point

Hi Point dont give a sh*t and I am pretty sure everyone thst works there does not give a sh*t about influencers. Hi Point just makes guns that are almost impossible to blow up. But they are ugly AF.

Hi Point I bet (by unit #, not dollars) probably easily blew away the 3 or 4 guns I just mentioned in terms of unit volume, I doubt anyone would say theyre a failure commercially.

Also I cant think of a hi point pistol that ever had an MSRP of $399.

 

[Cur]

McGun Vetboy is no question going to influence gun owners as much as Clint and Elmer and that arrogant old 45 guy.

I recall when Clint shifted - he said he was tired of people listening to him, buying a full size 1911 and then either never carrying it or selling it back to the gun shop and ever carrying again.

McGun Vetboy influences buyers in every category. Beer. Beard oil. Mascara.

I'm gonna take solace in the fact I don't know who that first one is, but definitely know the last two by just first name. I'm just gonna keep carrying on.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Probably Hi Point

Hi Point dont give a sh*t and I am pretty sure everyone thst works there does not give a sh*t about influencers. Hi Point just makes guns that are almost impossible to blow up. But they are ugly AF.

Hi-Point came to mind for me as well, but I get the feeling Hi-Point knows exactly that they're Hi-Point and tend to actually capitalize on that aspect. They're kind of immune to industry jokes because they're basically in on it too.

 

[Broc]

Hi Point I bet (by unit #, not dollars) probably easily blew away the 3 or 4 guns I just mentioned in terms of unit volume, I doubt anyone would say theyre a failure commercially.

Also I cant think of a hi point pistol that ever had an MSRP of $399.

I know, that was not Hi-Point.

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

There are too many failures in/near that segment to list....

Beretta APX, Remington RP9, RP51... Ruger American.

Then there are other guns that failed through bad luck. For example the original Caracal C was a great gun but the recall ND bs basically killed the gun.

The XDs were never sold that cheap so it can't be that. (he mentions a blowout sale of the guns at a point).

One key thing he mentions is "mid 2010s". That's why I was going with APX. 2016. $399 MSPR. 4" barrel length. A perfectly serviceable pistol that is just a bit too ugly for mass market acceptance and not enough value add to get people to drop their Glocks, Sigs, and M&P's.

 

[whatluck]

The guy is an idiot. It is very common for engineers to not know how the market or corporate world works outside their bubble. I see if every day.

It really shows when they get angry.

Ps: this is not a shot at the NES engineers. You all know what I mean.

This 100%. If you're a good engineer its probably because you spend all your free time perfecting your craft. Just because you have a MS in IT from MIT doesn't mean you're good with marketing. Seems to me like a little more market research would've been prudent.

 

[whatluck]

One key thing he mentions is "mid 2010s". That's why I was going with APX. 2016. $399 MSPR. 4" barrel length. A perfectly serviceable pistol that is just a bit too ugly for mass market acceptance and not enough value add to get people to drop their Glocks, Sigs, and M&P's.

The APX is actually a decent pistol if you're 5'7 and have stubby italian hands.

 

[drgrant]

One key thing he mentions is "mid 2010s". That's why I was going with APX. 2016. $399 MSPR. 4" barrel length. A perfectly serviceable pistol that is just a bit too ugly for mass market acceptance and not enough value add to get people to drop their Glocks, Sigs, and M&P's.

Yeah, could be. Of course if its that the engineer seems to be ignoring the APX looks like shit / weird (vs its contemporaries) and has a marginal trigger

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

Yeah, could be. Of course if its that the engineer seems to be ignoring the APX looks like shit / weird (vs its contemporaries) and has a marginal trigger

Everyone always things their own kid is cute, no matter how deformed.

 

[Mesatchornug]

There are too many failures in/near that segment to list....

Beretta APX, Remington RP9, RP51... Ruger American.

Then there are other guns that failed through bad luck. For example the original Caracal C was a great gun but the recall ND bs basically killed the gun.

The XDs were never sold that cheap so it can't be that. (he mentions a blowout sale of the guns at a point).

Isn't the American the one they entered in the Army trials? If so, it kind of definitionally has to be gunning for the G19. Makes me think maybe the Security-9, but even that's not in the price point we're talking about. I think the SR-9 came out too early to have the arc he's whinging about...

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

The APX is actually a decent pistol if you're 5'7 and have stubby italian hands.

The Italian part aside, that isn't very far off for me. Maybe I should take a second look? If only I didn't need eyeballs to shoot guns, I'm sure I'd be fine with this one.

 

[whatluck]

The Italian part aside, that isn't very far off for me. Maybe I should take a second look? If only I didn't need eyeballs to shoot guns, I'm sure I'd be fine with this one.

I mean, you could. A big let down for me is the availability of mags and holsters. It just never took off.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The XDs were never sold that cheap so it can't be that. (he mentions a blowout sale of the guns at a point).

I remember lots of super-cheap Sigmas.

 

[whatluck]

I remember lots of super-cheap Sigmas.

Here in KY there's used XDs everywhere, $350-$400 with box spare mags and no rust. Most carried and never shot, and I imagine upgraded to the G48 or P365.

 

[AHM]

The guy is an idiot. It is very common for engineers to not know how the market or corporate world works outside their bubble. I see if every day.

It really shows when they get angry.

A proxy for direct contact with sales prospects
is having a detailed finger on the pulse of customer service -
if not shouldering that directly.

Nothing informs engineering about what crap they've built
like listening to people bitch about it, and having to fix it.