Internal vs External extractor

[ntomsw]

I'm looking into getting another 1911, and I am wondering what the main differences are, or if there are any advantages of either one. On some google searches, a lot of people say the external are no good, etc.

A few of the ones I'm looking at, all have external, and just want to make sure before I take the plunge.

Thanks.

 

[marvelshooter]

If you are a Bullseye shooter an external extractor is not legal for Distinguished Pistol matches.

 

[Big_Red]

Differences? One you can see and one you can't?

I've had 1911s with both and both worked fine.

 

[bill o]

My SW1911's external extractor lasted 25,000 rounds of 170PF .45 before the hook sheared off. The bad thing is you have to send it back to the factory for replacement (free). There are no replacement parts available anywhere.

The people who tell you external extractors aren't reliable probably read on the internet that Kimber had a miserable time with them. The S&W design is strong and reliable.

Internal extractors are fine too.

 

[ntomsw]

My SW1911's external extractor lasted 25,000 rounds of 170PF .45 before the hook sheared off. The bad thing is you have to send it back to the factory for replacement (free). There are no replacement parts available anywhere.

The people who tell you external extractors aren't reliable probably read on the internet that Kimber had a miserable time with them. The S&W design is strong and reliable.

Internal extractors are fine too.

Ahhh, good info thank you. Yes a lot of info I found was on Kimbers and they said they were awful. I was curious. Thank you for that info.

 

[jar]

http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/04/external-extractors-and-1911s.html

 

[drgrant]

Go with an internal if you want the local gunsmith to be able to fix/adjust it. External is fine too, but like bill o says, if it dies or needs help it will have to go back to Smith.

-Mike

 

[jar]

Why doesn't smith sell them? All you do is knock out the pin, swap them, and put the pin back in.

 

[bill o]

Why doesn't smith sell them? All you do is knock out the pin, swap them, and put the pin back in.

In the context of the Kimber debacle, maybe they're afraid their design will get a bad rep when people try to install at home, screw it up somehow and complain on the internet.

I was talking to someone who bought a stripped M&P pro slide and had to send it to the factory for the new extractor. They told him there was an adjustment procedure that could only be done by them.

 

[jar]

I was talking to someone who bought a stripped M&P pro slide and had to send it to the factory for the new extractor. They told him there was an adjustment procedure that could only be done by them.

He could've bought the extractor from APEX.

 

[Gammon]

I have been shooting 1911s for many years and have become used to the internal extractor which has proven extremely reliable for several hundreds of thousand rounds. I did try a Para 45 Carry Model with their "super" spring loaded internal extractor which proved to be unreliable (stove pipes).

I have yet to try an external extractor but I can say that I have not heard anyone claim that this innovation is superior to the original part. Based on my experience, I would not switch to the external extractor until someone could prove to me that it was a definite improvement.

 

[greencobra]

I've been down this path too. No one can give you a clear idea of why an external is not the way to go. They mostly seem to go by random comments they've heard in passing, usually from old timers sitting on a gun club porch discussing 1911's. I own both types of extractors on various 1911's. All the external guns are S&W. One, while not exactly a 1911 but has an external, has been running flawlessly for 25 years or so. A 4013 .40 S&W compact. It's been with me daily since I bought it and I'd guess 10,000 rds are thru it. Never broke or faied to eject. I have other more recent purchases but I bet my life on this gun, and it has the old style, smaller external extractor. My newer Smiths have the beefier extractors. I guess I'll feel differently when I have one fail in real life but until then it doesn't matter to me. And if it does I'll send it out, I have other guns to shoot.

 

[Greg Derr]

Both are fine, both are reliable. The external extractor is self adjusting with an independent spring. The internal needs to be hand tuned. John M. Browning did use the external extractor on the High Power which has his next design after the 1911, so I think he approved of the external. Yes you ( I) can get the extractors from SW. SW sells some parts which to only approved gunsmiths or armorers. The external extractor is used on a number of other 1911's with great success. I like the internal extractor purely for looks only.

 

[M1911]

I have yet to try an external extractor but I can say that I have not heard anyone claim that this innovation is superior to the original part. Based on my experience, I would not switch to the external extractor until someone could prove to me that it was a definite improvement.

Jar posted it above: http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2011/04/external-extractors-and-1911s.html

I have also put thousands of rounds through 1911s with internal extractors. And once tuned properly, an internal extractor works well for a long time. But, as gunsmith Hilton Yam points out, internal extractors need to be hand fit to ensure proper tension. Properly designed external extractors (that is, not Kimbers ) don't need hand fitting and work properly right out of the box.

As Greg Derr said, I too prefer the internal extractor for its looks.

 

[drgrant]

For whatever it is or isn't worth, I've seen a ton of SW1911s on the lines at bowling pin shoots, and none of them have ever seemed to have an extraction problem.

I've seen a bunch of them fail or get effed up in other ways (including one very poorly fitted gun where the barrel lugs got rounded off!) but extraction never seemed to be an issue.

-Mike

 

[ntomsw]

Thanks for the info everyone. Was just curious of the major pros and cons, and it seems like I got my question answered. I too like the looks of the internal better, but otherwise I didn't have any other reasons behind it. Thanks.

 

[Gammon]

Both are fine, both are reliable. The external extractor is self adjusting with an independent spring. The internal needs to be hand tuned. John M. Browning did use the external extractor on the High Power which has his next design after the 1911, so I think he approved of the external. Yes you ( I) can get the extractors from SW. SW sells some parts which to only approved gunsmiths or armorers. The external extractor is used on a number of other 1911's with great success. I like the internal extractor purely for looks only.

It is possible that JMB was prevented from using his internal extractor due to patent problems; Colt owned the rights to the 1911.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Greg summed it up nicely on the looks issue.

Both work when properly installed. There are really two issues:

1. Looks

2. Parts standardization

If you have an internal extractor (except the oversized Para "power extractor"), you almost get one at the local convenience store. Ok, so Apu may not have one, but you will have a choice of dozens of manufacturers and if you were really in a pinch a "Can someone help me out - I need one in a hurry" will probably get multiple offers of assistance. On the other hand, external extractors tend to be sold-sourced from the manufacturer of the gun which may or may not make it easy for the average user to order one without proving some sort of qualification.

Standardization is even more of an issue if you are going to have multiple 1911's and not lock yourself into a single brand.

......

My guess is that S&W went with the external spring loaded extractor for manufacturability reasons.