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Is a PCC that uses a different mag than your pistol a dealbreaker?

T

T-Unit

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I've long been a proponent of a doctrine that if you intend to own a pistol caliber carbine it should use the same magazines as your preferred pistol. For me that has been Glock mags for 9 and .40; very easy to find carbines that use those mags. However, 10mm carbines are not as available and if I want to go with Glock mag compatibility, I'm stuck with the expensive and IMO unecessarily complex Kriss Vector, a bare bones TNW Aero Survival rifle, a Just Right Carbine, or the Mech-Tech upper that mates with a Glock frame. None of those are ideal, probably the dwarf among those midgets would be the TNW because it's pretty light and TNW sells conversion kits for other calibers.

The alternative option is something that doesn't use the Glock mags and the only 10mm carbine I know of that doesn't is Hi Point. I'm not opposed to a Hi Point carbine, they seem to be held in higher regard than the pistols, it's just being stuck with proprietary magazines that hold 10 rds is the drawback.

That said, for a 10mm carbine, I'm not feeling I need to get extended mags that hold 20 or 30 rounds of 10mm like I did with 9mm and .40 years ago. I mean, I largely grabbed those extended mags because they were available and cheap and right now the only company that makes a 30 rd 10mm Glock mag is ETS and I've found that those magazines run just fine in blowback carbines, but have significant issues in the Glock pistols. Knowing what I know about those ETS mags, I don't care to bother with them considering they don't work well in pistols.

So, either I'm stuck with 10 rd Hi Point or 15 rd Glock mags.

What do you gentleman think? Get a carbine that isn't tickling my fancy becuase it uses Glock mags that I have or settle for something less that does interest me some, but uses mags different from the Glock I own?
 
Not a dealbreaker for me. I have two of the Ruger PCCs. No Glock Pistols and one Ruger SR9C. And have a Marlin Camp 9 which uses S&W Model 59 mags of which I have non of those Pistols.
 
T-Unit said:
I've long been a proponent of a doctrine that if you intend to own a pistol caliber carbine it should use the same magazines as your preferred pistol. For me that has been Glock mags for 9 and .40; very easy to find carbines that use those mags. However, 10mm carbines are not as available and if I want to go with Glock mag compatibility, I'm stuck with the expensive and IMO unecessarily complex Kriss Vector, a bare bones TNW Aero Survival rifle, a Just Right Carbine, or the Mech-Tech upper that mates with a Glock frame. None of those are ideal, probably the dwarf among those midgets would be the TNW because it's pretty light and TNW sells conversion kits for other calibers.

The alternative option is something that doesn't use the Glock mags and the only 10mm carbine I know of that doesn't is Hi Point. I'm not opposed to a Hi Point carbine, they seem to be held in higher regard than the pistols, it's just being stuck with proprietary magazines that hold 10 rds is the drawback.

That said, for a 10mm carbine, I'm not feeling I need to get extended mags that hold 20 or 30 rounds of 10mm like I did with 9mm and .40 years ago. I mean, I largely grabbed those extended mags because they were available and cheap and right now the only company that makes a 30 rd 10mm Glock mag is ETS and I've found that those magazines run just fine in blowback carbines, but have significant issues in the Glock pistols. Knowing what I know about those ETS mags, I don't care to bother with them considering they don't work well in pistols.

So, either I'm stuck with 10 rd Hi Point or 15 rd Glock mags.

What do you gentleman think? Get a carbine that isn't tickling my fancy becuase it uses Glock mags that I have or settle for something less that does interest me some, but uses mags different from the Glock I own?
Click to expand...

I can’t imagine applying arbitrary rules to anything in my life, no, proprietary mags do not stop me from buying a PCC. That said, this is what you are looking for, CMMG Banshee MK10 in 10mm. I’ve owned one for a couple years, it’s great.

Banshee 300 Pistol, Mk10, 10MM | CMMG - AR 15 and AR 10 Builds and Parts

If you want the best an AR has to offer, then the 300 Series is your choice. This AR is fitted with every desired
cmmginc.com cmmginc.com
 
JRT said:
I can’t imagine applying arbitrary rules to anything in my life, no, proprietary mags do not stop me from buying a PCC. That said, this is what you are looking for, CMMG Banshee MK10 in 10mm. I’ve owned one for a couple years, it’s great.

Banshee 300 Pistol, Mk10, 10MM | CMMG - AR 15 and AR 10 Builds and Parts

If you want the best an AR has to offer, then the 300 Series is your choice. This AR is fitted with every desired
cmmginc.com cmmginc.com
Click to expand...
And if they made one with a 16 inch barrel and replaced the brace with a real stock, I might consider that.
 
T-Unit said:
Velocity, the extra 200-250 fps is very nice.

And I can't own SBR where I live.
Click to expand...
I found this, at least it doesn’t look goofy like the Just Right or TNW. I don’t know anything about the company or the quality.

thureondefense.com

Defense Pistol Caliber Carbine Model

Product Defense Pistol Caliber Carbine Model Calibers 9mm / .40 S&W .45 ACP 10mm Handguard Octagonal Mag Types Glock ButtStock M4 Telescoping Pistol Grip AR Style Magazine Release Standard Trigger Standard Compensator Standard LH Available Yes Accessories Included Picattiny...
thureondefense.com thureondefense.com
 
JRT said:
I found this, at least it doesn’t look goofy like the Just Right or TNW. I don’t know anything about the company or the quality.

thureondefense.com

Defense Pistol Caliber Carbine Model

Product Defense Pistol Caliber Carbine Model Calibers 9mm / .40 S&W .45 ACP 10mm Handguard Octagonal Mag Types Glock ButtStock M4 Telescoping Pistol Grip AR Style Magazine Release Standard Trigger Standard Compensator Standard LH Available Yes Accessories Included Picattiny...
thureondefense.com thureondefense.com
Click to expand...
If I could find one that'd be an option. At least with the TNW and Hi Point 10mm's they're able to be found.
 
In addition to ETS, SGM Tactical makes a 30-round magazine, and Kriss makes an 18-round extension to the standard 15-round mag.

As I write this, my TNW is on its way back from Oregon with a replacement 9mm extractor, so I'm reserving judgement on it until I run another couple hundred rounds through it. I'll also consider a 10mm conversion kit once the ammo drought lifts. If you are used to an AR, the TNW layout takes a little getting used to.
 
T-Unit said:
I've long been a proponent of a doctrine that if you intend to own a pistol caliber carbine it should use the same magazines as your preferred pistol. For me that has been Glock mags for 9 and .40; very easy to find carbines that use those mags. However, 10mm carbines are not as available and if I want to go with Glock mag compatibility, I'm stuck with the expensive and IMO unecessarily complex Kriss Vector, a bare bones TNW Aero Survival rifle, a Just Right Carbine, or the Mech-Tech upper that mates with a Glock frame. None of those are ideal, probably the dwarf among those midgets would be the TNW because it's pretty light and TNW sells conversion kits for other calibers.

The alternative option is something that doesn't use the Glock mags and the only 10mm carbine I know of that doesn't is Hi Point. I'm not opposed to a Hi Point carbine, they seem to be held in higher regard than the pistols, it's just being stuck with proprietary magazines that hold 10 rds is the drawback.

That said, for a 10mm carbine, I'm not feeling I need to get extended mags that hold 20 or 30 rounds of 10mm like I did with 9mm and .40 years ago. I mean, I largely grabbed those extended mags because they were available and cheap and right now the only company that makes a 30 rd 10mm Glock mag is ETS and I've found that those magazines run just fine in blowback carbines, but have significant issues in the Glock pistols. Knowing what I know about those ETS mags, I don't care to bother with them considering they don't work well in pistols.

So, either I'm stuck with 10 rd Hi Point or 15 rd Glock mags.

What do you gentleman think? Get a carbine that isn't tickling my fancy becuase it uses Glock mags that I have or settle for something less that does interest me some, but uses mags different from the Glock I own?
Click to expand...
Just curious... Why do you want a 10mm PCC? The ballistics out of a 9mm PCC are pretty good. That said, I would love a PCC in 10mm haha.
 
I'll solve your problem. PCCs are stupid as a defensive weapon. If you are using a rifle, it should be using a 3000fps projectile, not a 1200fps one.

Would you use a PCC to hunt? No. You know why? Because trying to kill things with a PCC when your explicit intent is to kill is inhuman. Pick up a .223 or .308.
 
Oh yeah, I got sidetracked...

As to:

Is a PCC that uses a different mag than your pistol a dealbreaker?​


Not for me as long as they take the same ammo, I'm ok with it...
 
xtry51 said:
I'll solve your problem. PCCs are stupid as a defensive weapon. If you are using a rifle, it should be using a 3000fps projectile, not a 1200fps one.

Would you use a PCC to hunt? No. You know why? Because trying to kill things with a PCC when your explicit intent is to kill is inhuman. Pick up a .223 or .308.
Click to expand...
Some things are just fun to shoot.
 
I see no purpose in a PCC other than for competition or range toy, so no, different mags don’t matter. If you are using something that big, it should use a rifle caliber
 
xtry51 said:
I'll solve your problem. PCCs are stupid as a defensive weapon. If you are using a rifle, it should be using a 3000fps projectile, not a 1200fps one.

Would you use a PCC to hunt? No. You know why? Because trying to kill things with a PCC when your explicit intent is to kill is inhuman. Pick up a .223 or .308.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I have a PCC SBR for a number of reasons. One, it's more fun than shooting .22LR and it was cheaper to shoot 9mm than 5.56 or 7.62 prior to this latest craziness. Two, I already had plenty of 9mm ammo since I have a few 9mm pistols. Three, I can use my PCC SBR at our indoor range, unlike any of my rifle calibers. Four, noise... all of my rifles, both 5.56 and 7.62 have PWS compensators on them that are extremely loud. Shooting those indoors and/or without hearing protection would potentially cause hearing loss. Last both those calibers will over-penetrate at typical self-defense distances and certainly when used inside your home and you are liable for anything your rounds hit. The idea of 5.56 or 7.62 zipping through drywall or wood and hitting a neighbor/another house/car/etc is particularly concerning. Remember there is a very big difference between "cover" and "concealment" when it comes to rifle rounds... and the typical house today is mostly just concealment. Same goes for a car, unless you're behind the engine block.

My go to now for home self-defense is my 9mm Scorpion SBR and Glock 17MOS. My EDC is still a Glock 19. My SHTF/Zombie Apocalypse/TEOTWAWKI rifle is either a Tavor or AR15, whichever I grab first... if it is the end of the world, I'll make my kid carry the 20" AR10 and 7.62 ammo. YMMV. DYOR.

*Edit* Stopping power is BS at self defense distances. It's all about hit location and follow up shot accuracy. Someone with multiple 9mm holes in them is going to bleed out just as quick as someone with multiple 5.56 holes. It's why the military continues to use 9mm sidearms, most police forces as well as the FBI are back to using 9mm handguns. It's why the army switched from 7.62 to 5.56 in Vietnam (more rounds vs. stopping power). The argument about body armor stopping hand gun rounds is also BS, as SAPI plates will also stop 5.56 and 7.62. You don't know whether your target is wearing soft or hard armor (or armor at all) and it really doesn't matter given the above: it will likely take more than one shot to stop someone if they are wearing body armor regardless of the caliber being used and again, hit location and number is important.
 
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This is what I'm talking about: Perfect home defense/room clearing gun/fun range toy in 9mm... wish it had a can, but this is MA (also why the stock is an AR stock that's fixed, though there is much confusion whether an SBR qualifies for the AWB or not, as it isn't a rifle, nor a pistol).

IMG_1543.jpg
 
mav said:
I disagree. I have a PCC SBR for a number of reasons. One, it's more fun than shooting .22LR and it was cheaper to shoot 9mm than 5.56 or 7.62 prior to this latest craziness. Two, I already had plenty of 9mm ammo since I have a few 9mm pistols. Three, I can use my PCC SBR at our indoor range, unlike any of my rifle calibers. Four, noise... all of my rifles, both 5.56 and 7.62 have PWS compensators on them that are extremely loud. Shooting those indoors and/or without hearing protection would potentially cause hearing loss. Last both those calibers will over-penetrate at typical self-defense distances and certainly when used inside your home and you are liable for anything your rounds hit. The idea of 5.56 or 7.62 zipping through drywall or wood and hitting a neighbor/another house/car/etc is particularly concerning. Remember there is a very big difference between "cover" and "concealment" when it comes to rifle rounds... and the typical house today is mostly just concealment. Same goes for a car, unless you're behind the engine block.

*Edit* Stopping power is BS at self defense distances. It's all about hit location and follow up shot accuracy. Someone with multiple 9mm holes in them is going to bleed out just as quick as someone with multiple 5.56 holes. It's why the military continues to use 9mm sidearms, most police forces as well as the FBI are back to using 9mm handguns. The argument about body armor stopping hand gun rounds is also BS, as SAPI plates will also stop 5.56 and 7.62. You don't know whether your target is wearing soft or hard armor (or armor at all) and it really doesn't matter given the above: it will likely take more than one shot to stop someone if they are wearing body armor regardless of the caliber being used and again, hit location and number is important.
Click to expand...


giphy.gif
 
mav said:
This is what I'm talking about: Perfect home defense/room clearing gun/fun range toy in 9mm... wish it had a can, but this is MA (also why the stock is an AR stock that's fixed, though there is much confusion whether an SBR qualifies for the AWB or not, as it isn't a rifle, nor a pistol).

View attachment 440020
Click to expand...

front sight is backwards. does that an operator thing?

the eotech sits high. me thinks with that stock one would have a chin-weld. nah thanks.
 
92G said:
front sight is backwards. does that an operator thing?
Click to expand...

LOL. No, it came back from the gunsmith like that when he swapped barrels and cut the rail back so it wouldn't be so close to the muzzle brake (and destroy it). That just happens to be the only pic I have and I'm too lazy to take another one with the sights set up properly/zeroed, the VFG and Streamlight installed, etc. I think the smith did it because the Eotech 512 takes up alot of that rail space and the front sight couldn't close down properly. I moved the Eotech back, not a problem any more, though space behind is really tight if I put a 3x Mag on it (on/off/brighness is on the back), but that's only for zeroing.

Funny enough, I swapped batteries on the 512 and it stopped working, likely a problem with the battery connections needing to be replaced which was common with older 512's (I've had this for a while). I might just run it with irons as it's zeroed at 25m and 10-50m is dead balls accurate with either optic or iron.

Regarding the Eotech and the stock being a problem for cheek weld, the riser is a Magpul AK medium riser on the Magpul CTR. It raises the cheek weld just enough to be comfortable. Tried the short, medium and large risers... the medium was just right. The 512 doesn't sit as high as other Eotechs, much lower than those with quick release mounts. Trust me, it isn't a problem.
 
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A PCC that uses Glock mags is incredibly reliable. There are so many variations that run on Glock magazines. It’s beautiful. Go with something simple that uses Glock magazines. Get extensions and load the magazines incrementally each day to break in the springs, and lube the interior if necessary. The KRISS Vector is not complex. The charging handle feels similar to an MP5, it shoulders like an AR, and it is tried and true.
 
92G said:
front sight is backwards. does that an operator thing?

the eotech sits high. me thinks with that stock one would have a chin-weld. nah thanks.
Click to expand...

Measure from the bottom of your cheek bone to the center of your eye. How far is that? About 1.75" if you have an average sized adult male skull. Now imagine your cheek weld just under your cheek bone and touching the top of the AK riser on the CTR stock. Your eye will sit pretty well centered on the BUIS and 512 reticle...
 

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