Is dirty/sooty brass indicative of low pressure? (.45ACP)

[milktree]

I remember hearing somewhere that if your brass comes out of the chamber all sooty, that means you're not using enough powder.

But... "heard somewhere" isn't a good enough reason to just start increasing the load and pressure.

I'm loading 200 gr. Rainier truncated cone plated bullets over 5.0 grains of Bullseye.

I set the OAL between "long enough to feed" and "short enough to not get wedged in the magazine. For my Nornico "Model of the 1911A1" and Para Ordnance P14 that means 1.230"

I get different muzzle velocities for the two guns: The Para's is 786FPS, the Norinco 817FPS. (curiously, there was a steady rise in the speed of the Para as I went through the 40 I measured, from about 775 to 798 fps.)

Those speeds are in line with what's published by Speer, Lyman, and Alliant:

Speer: 4.2 -> 4.6 gr = 744 -> 807 fps LSWC
Alliant: 4.0 gr = 790 fps LSWC
Lyman: 3.3 -> 5.6 gr = 645 -> 869 fps LSWC #452460
Lyman: 4.9 -> 6.0 gr = 840 -> 909 fps LSWC #452630

Both guns cycle and feed properly, and both soot the cases about the same.

 

[JimB]

looks similar to my brass, i also use bullseye, but load 200gr LSWC

 

[Boris]

would primers have anything to do with this? Factory ammo is less sooty for some reason.

 

[ARV]

I use W231 for .45 and my brass is a little sooty but not too bad (maybe 1/2 what is in your picture). My .38's loaded with Bullseye get a fair amount of soot on them. I think Bullseye just burns dirty.

 

[Ziptar]

Before you up the load try a tighter crimp?

The cases in your pic don't look too bad to me. However, I load 45 Colt using Unique, compared to those, anything looks less sooty.

 

[DukeInFlorida]

Sooty is usually a loose crimp. Look up my crimp test, and try that with some of these rounds. I'm guessing that you will see the spirals.

 

[milktree]

Sooty is usually a loose crimp. Look up my crimp test, and try that with some of these rounds. I'm guessing that you will see the spirals.

Remind me where the crimp test is. It's something like, "shoot at a piece of paper at (mumble) feet, and look for patterns" right?

I'm reluctant to add more crimp, I don't want to deform the bullet. They're effectively lead bullets, not jacketed.

 

[Fixxah]

Different powders produce different results in different guns
Red dot was what I used in my 1911 and it ran dirty reguardless of load and minimal crimp. I doubt it matters compared to revolver ammo where crimp is important
The velocities you posted don't seem to be that drastic as far as deviation is concerned and I would bet that a solid grip versus limp wristing will give the same results.

I am no expert so use your own judgement based on the knowledge of those with more experience than my three years.

Sent from the Hyundai of the droids, the Samsung Replenish, using Tapatalk.

 

[drgrant]

Bullseye is always going to be dirty as sin. Same with Unique, although I bet BE is dirtier.

BTW, a 200 grainer going low 800s or less is basically a mouse fart load. Not sure how unique is with that, but some powders the dirt levels increase when you are trying to use them for mouse fart loads. Don't be afraid to use a test box going up to the max loads.

-Mike

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

I remember hearing somewhere that if your brass comes out of the chamber all sooty, that means you're not using enough powder.

But... "heard somewhere" isn't a good enough reason to just start increasing the load and pressure.

I'm loading 200 gr. Rainier truncated cone plated bullets over 5.0 grains of Bullseye.

I set the OAL between "long enough to feed" and "short enough to not get wedged in the magazine. For my Nornico "Model of the 1911A1" and Para Ordnance P14 that means 1.230"

I get different muzzle velocities for the two guns: The Para's is 786FPS, the Norinco 817FPS. (curiously, there was a steady rise in the speed of the Para as I went through the 40 I measured, from about 775 to 798 fps.)

Those speeds are in line with what's published by Speer, Lyman, and Alliant:

Speer: 4.2 -> 4.6 gr = 744 -> 807 fps LSWC
Alliant: 4.0 gr = 790 fps LSWC
Lyman: 3.3 -> 5.6 gr = 645 -> 869 fps LSWC #452460
Lyman: 4.9 -> 6.0 gr = 840 -> 909 fps LSWC #452630

Both guns cycle and feed properly, and both soot the cases about the same.

Those cases don't look bad at all. If they are giving you sufficient accuracy, don't change anything.

Firing lubed lead bullets is going to increase the soot too. Try a batch of 230 FMJ and see if there is any difference.

If you want a totally clean firing gun, buy a laser beam.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Before you up the load try a tighter crimp?

It's a taper crimp on an auto pistol round. If it gages OK, adding more taper 'crimp' can only hurt.

I agree with finallygotabletfed - If they shoot OK, don't worry about it.

 

[m4bushy]

Overdoing a taper crimp is not a good thing. Remember everyone, semiauto pistol rounds headspace on the mouth of the case. If over crimped, the cartridge will not headspace correctly. It could cause a ftf or an overpressure issue if the case mouth enters the throat of the barrel.

 

[bob68]

It's a taper crimp on an auto pistol round. If it gages OK, adding more taper 'crimp' can only hurt.

I agree with finallygotabletfed - If they shoot OK, don't worry about it.

i am not an expert by any means but eddie is right.

 

[8x57mm]

Unique definitely burns cleaner than Bullseye, especially in revolver cartridges. Not "clean" mind you... just much cleaner than Bullseye.

JR