Is firearms training really worth the money?

Some people are underpracticed and over trained. These people can be spotted by their lengthy resume of "big name" gunfighting classes; liberal use of the words "tactical" and "cover" in conversation; and a declaration that USPSA and IDPA are "just games that will get you killed" that is backed up by miserable scores in those endeavors.
 
Well said Rob. I would say some initial training is definitely useful. However, given the prevalence of "training factories" (ala belt factories in martial arts) - where you are just one of 25 or so people with only a single instructor on the line, decreases the value of these classes.
 
Thanks, Andy. Good points. Like you I prefer a ratio of no more than 8 students to one instructor. Much more that that and I feel I am not getting a fair shake. We try to to keep all our training classes to that ratio and often will have a one instructor to no more than 5 students for our more complicated or advanced classes. Thanks for your insight. Have a great weekend.
 
Some people are underpracticed and over trained. These people can be spotted by their lengthy resume of "big name" gunfighting classes; liberal use of the words "tactical" and "cover" in conversation; and a declaration that USPSA and IDPA are "just games that will get you killed" that is backed up by miserable scores in those endeavors.

I agree. I watched bits and pieces of your video in between work, and you make some good points. 100% if you are carrying a pistol outside of competition or fun, you should 'train' in your defensive configuration. I think that sometimes people don't even know what they don't know. Pistolcraft is only a small piece of what people should be paying attention to if they carry for defensive purposes... Human psychology, basic situational awareness, understanding of how fear and anxiety will affect your performance, verbal skills, low light shooting, basic h2h experience, etc...

I'm not saying that people HAVE to do all of that. I'm just saying that if anyone out there thinks that they are going to rise to the occasion if something bad happens to them or their loved ones... it's quite the opposite. And anyone who craps on IDPA or USPSA, or IPSC as not useful, they also are pretty short sighted. Want to really see what you don't know? Get into a simunitions class, or even just airsoft force on force role playing (no I don't mean all kitted up, run it with a CCW setup and good role players). Eye opening.
 
I like the way you party.



For real though, simunitions make you realize how small you can become pretty quick.

Back when I could afford the full week classes at the SIG academy, the last two days on what used to be called the advanced concealed carry class were simunition. The set up different senarios on the inside range. It was very instructive. Espescially the low light stuff.

That said, I do need to practice it more. Need 9mm to drop back to where I can afford full cases again.
 
Back when I could afford the full week classes at the SIG academy, the last two days on what used to be called the advanced concealed carry class were simunition. The set up different senarios on the inside range. It was very instructive. Espescially the low light stuff.

The Navy let me play with sims for 2 weeks on an old sub tender they converted for force protection and VBSS training. It was one of the coolest things I got to do on .gov's dime.
 
Somewhat related, I was just thinking earlier today how little or no training it takes for "bad guys" to be successful in harming people. I assume it's a high stress situation being the assailant too, yet they still seem to inflict a lot of damage. Maybe there is drive-by training that I am not aware of where they get together and say "yo, you need to turn your (insert favorite slang gun name here) more sideways".

Anyways, I enjoy watching your videos.
 
Somewhat related, I was just thinking earlier today how little or no training it takes for "bad guys" to be successful in harming people. I assume it's a high stress situation being the assailant too, yet they still seem to inflict a lot of damage. Maybe there is drive-by training that I am not aware of where they get together and say "yo, you need to turn your (insert favorite slang gun name here) more sideways".

Anyways, I enjoy watching your videos.

Not to derail... I'll just say this. They DO train. A lot. Even though it may not be on a range traditionally, they are growing up (generally) in a SOLID culture of violence, and although they aren't shooting as much as a good guy, they are VERY comfortable making decisions under extreme pressure and violent conditions. Think OODA loop training from early adolescence. This is a HUGE advantage no matter how much trigger time you have.

sorry for my all caps emphasis. hahaha
 
Somewhat related, I was just thinking earlier today how little or no training it takes for "bad guys" to be successful in harming people. I assume it's a high stress situation being the assailant too, yet they still seem to inflict a lot of damage. Maybe there is drive-by training that I am not aware of where they get together and say "yo, you need to turn your (insert favorite slang gun name here) more sideways".

Anyways, I enjoy watching your videos.

[video=youtube_share;6dOVdh6NIhw]http://youtu.be/6dOVdh6NIhw[/video]
 
Yes, SIMS is the way to go. I've had the opportunity to do this while assisting a group who was training SWAT. Many great lessons learned from this and it reinforced the need for moving, front sight and keeping the gun running. (SIMS are notorious for causing malfunctions). Totally different training when rounds are coming inbound! Thanks for commenting.
 
GOOD, high quality training is important. More important is a solid understanding and ability to perform the fundamentals of shooting. Without the fundamentals as a foundation all other training is a waste. The best shooters in the world still spend hours a week on the basics of stance, body position, grip, trigger control and breath control. As with any training or education you get out of it what you put into it.
 
TRAINING with real experts in there craft is worth every penny, What you choose to do with it in the aftermath is up to you.
The instructors goal is to work your lower end skills out of you and refine your total package, leaving you with a list of things to work on.
It is a an evolution of skill sets we should use everyday. You choose to broaden your knowledge base by learning diverse skills and reapplying them with your range work.
? When you hit the range for the day, do you just go and shoot like most guys, or do you have a plan, are you applying course skills and knowledge?
Moving while shooting, failure drills, unorthodox position work? are you taking yourself out of your comfort zone and working on your less than stellar skills.
So, should you seek Training, Yes.
But choose wisely, and vet our trainer.
 
I think that REAL experts should be clarified a bit. You (not you mnastek) generally need to be honest with yourself about your skillset. You shouldn't be going to take an advanced pistol class with Mike Seeklander if you cant put together a 6 inch group at 15 yards. Its a waste of your time and money as well as everyone else in class.

Ive been to classes with that guy whose in over his head, and it sucks. You need to assess yourself and feel free to take classes with the guy who isn't selling DVDs because you can probably still learn plenty for your level.
 
Somewhat related, I was just thinking earlier today how little or no training it takes for "bad guys" to be successful in harming people. I assume it's a high stress situation being the assailant too, yet they still seem to inflict a lot of damage. Maybe there is drive-by training that I am not aware of where they get together and say "yo, you need to turn your (insert favorite slang gun name here) more sideways".

Anyways, I enjoy watching your videos.

Roland nailed it. It is not a high stress atmosphere for these guys, it is their day-to-day job. And they have years of experience at it.


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