Is it possible to get a non-resident MA CCW?

[Texasgrillchef]

Is it even possible for a non-resident to even get a Ma CCW to be able to carry or even have gun in our vehicle for when we visit Ma as a tourist?

I spend. Inch of my time traveling the USA as a tourist. I am aware of FOPA. However FOPA doesn’t allow you to stop and “Sight see” and be a tourist. FOPA only allows you rest stops for gasoline, food, potty breaks, and medical attention.

Traveling in an RV with occasional Hotel/Motel stops makes it impossible and unsafe to leave firearms at home.

We would love to visit MA and enjoy the attractions that MA has to offer, but without someway of staying legal with our firearms in our vehicle beyond FOPA. We don’t really need to be able to carry on our person. However keeping loaded or even unloaded and locked in a secure container or vehicle safe, in our RV, Hotel, vehicle would be of great benefit, in the minimum.

I have a Texas LTC, along with a NH and Maine LTC. I have pending Applications for a LTC with Ut, Ct, Az, Fl, and Illinois. If this would help any.

Also if it helps I have a Federal C&R License as well.

So how easy would it be to get a MA CCW?

 

[one-eyed Jack]

I'll skip this thread. Jack.

 

[Rick O'Shea]

Yes,.. Go for it!

 

[DavidC77]

Get ready to jump through a lot of hoops, it's hard enough for us that live here to get one...

But here's the info:

How To Apply

Non-Res App


The following restrictions may be applied to a non-resident LTC:

NONE – the LTC is issued for all lawful purposes with no restrictions. Applicant must show good reason to fear injury to his person or property.

EMPLOYMENT – restricts possession to a business owner engaged in business activities or to an employee while engaged in work related activities, and maintaining proficiency, where the employer requires carry of a firearm (i.e. armored car, security guard, etc.). Includes travel to and from activity location.

TARGET & HUNTING – restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns). Includes travel to and from activity location.

SPORTING – restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns); and for outdoor recreational activities such as hiking, camping, cross country skiing, or similar activities. Includes travel to and from activity location.

This one pretty much says it all:

A LTC may ONLY be issued to a non-resident, non-citizen (alien) for the purpose of firearms competition.

.

 

[AHM]

This one pretty much says it all:

A LTC may ONLY be issued to a non-resident, non-citizen (alien) for the purpose of firearms competition.

It sounds to me like attempting to enforce that would violate Fletcher v. Haas.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It sounds to me like attempting to enforce that would violate Fletcher v. Haas.

That line is dated, incomplete, and now applies to non-citizens who do not have permanent resident status.

Fletcher v. Haas applies only to non-citizens who have permanent resident (green card) status.

That line is from the pre-Fletcher v. Haas era when that statement was indeed true for all aliens. It remains true for non-green card holders.

I do not expect a non-resident permanent resident alien will have any difficulty due to citizenship status.

 

[Texasgrillchef]

That line is dated, incomplete, and now applies to non-citizens who do not have permanent resident status.

Fletcher v. Haas applies only to non-citizens who have permanent resident (green card) status.

That line is from the pre-Fletcher v. Haas era when that statement was indeed true for all aliens. It remains true for non-green card holders.

I do not expect a non-resident permanent resident alien will have any difficulty due to citizenship status.

ok your entire post was confusing.

Are you saying this case does or does not apply to a US citizen who isnt a resident of Ma?

 

[daekken]

It's possible, but for your first application as a non-resident you need to do an in-person interview in Chelsea (not sure how COVID has impacted this). Then, another in-person every few years thereafter. Having your resident state license is also mandatory, so you've got that covered already.

So, you'll be making at least one trip to MA without an LTC to even apply.
The process from application to receipt is roughly six to eight months in my experience, the license is $100 and good for one year only.
A few months after I get my non-res, I get ready to reapply all over again to account waiting for up to eight months on the new license.

I do, however, have an unrestricted non-res MA LTC, so it's 100% worth it for me. The last three people I know of to apply for non-res also got unrestricted, however, all were "washed" -- we had unrestricted MA resident licenses beforehand.

I'd say it depends on how often and how much time you plan to spend in MA. For 1-2 trips a year of a few days, I don't know if it's worth the time and effort.

 

[MisterHappy]

Best bet, is to find a Mass Resident, who is properly licensed, and take them with you, so they'll be in lawful possession ( not ownership, that's different) of your gun. Factor in the cost of their meals, admission to the sights you wish to see, etc. and see if it makes sense.

They can also translate from the local dialect e.g. Packie, Cumbie's, Dunkies, Rotary, Bubbler, to improve your visit to Most Glorious [very] Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts.

 

[Brewer]

So I just moved from MA to TN, using MA license reciprocity to carry while waiting for my TN license to process. No impropriety since I haven’t yet sold the home up there. Is there any fast track to just convert a MA resident license to non-res? I know it’s a fool’s hope but don’t want to miss the opportunity.

What a joke Mass has become since its cradle of liberty days.

 

[daekken]

So I just moved from MA to TN, using MA license reciprocity to carry while waiting for my TN license to process. No impropriety since I haven’t yet sold the home up there. Is there any fast track to just convert a MA resident license to non-res? I know it’s a fool’s hope but don’t want to miss the opportunity.

What a joke Mass has become since its cradle of liberty days.

Unfortunately, no. New applicant, in-person interview required. Additionally, you need to include a copy of your TN license, so you'll have to wait to submit an application until you get one. I would 100% include the license # of your MA license and make mention of it on your application, though.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

ok your entire post was confusing.

Are you saying this case does or does not apply to a US citizen who isnt a resident of Ma?

It does not apply.

Non-MA US Citizens and permanent non-residents do not need to use competition as a reason and are sometimes issued unrestricted MA LTCs.

Rumor has it that previously having an unrestricted MA LTC increases the odds of getting an unrestricted NR.

The in-person interview is once every 6 years.

 

[Brewer]

Screw it. Was unlikely to set foot in Mass again but now I'll just never return. And if I must, I'll pay one of you guys to be my armed escort.

 

[Picton]

Best bet, is to find a Mass Resident, who is properly licensed, and take them with you, so they'll be in lawful possession ( not ownership, that's different) of your gun. Factor in the cost of their meals, admission to the sights you wish to see, etc. and see if it makes sense.

They can also translate from the local dialect e.g. Packie, Cumbie's, Dunkies, Rotary, Bubbler, to improve your visit to Most Glorious [very] Democratic People's Republic of Massachusetts.

This is a good idea.

NES has plenty of skinflints who'd be more than willing to tag along on your trip to Lexington Battle Green or the Freedom Trail in return for a Dunkie's gift card and a Cam Newton t-shirt. You could offer them a fee for them to take possession of your gats in their duly MA-mandated lockable storage containers if you're only spending a few gunless days in the state.

 

[AHM]

NES has plenty of skinflints who'd be more than willing to tag along on your trip to Lexington Battle Green ...

If you have to go to the Federal Restroom,
you're on your own.

 

[steve8140]

@Texasgrillchef

are you any type of instructor? That is a way a lot of people get a unrestricted non resident.
When I leave here I will be using this since most my family is here and I’ll be in MA a lot.

 

[Brewer]

@Picton @Reptile

 

[Kevin_NH]

Traveling in an RV with occasional Hotel/Motel stops makes it impossible and unsafe to leave firearms at home. We would love to visit MA and enjoy the attractions that MA has to offer, but without someway of staying legal with our firearms in our vehicle beyond FOPA. We don’t really need to be able to carry on our person. However keeping loaded or even unloaded and locked in a secure container or vehicle safe, in our RV, Hotel, vehicle would be of great benefit, in the minimum.

Clearly the answer is to drive straight through to New Hampshire and park your firearms here any way you'd like . Then take a side trip down to Boston if you are so inclined.

 

[JAD]

That line is dated, incomplete, and now applies to non-citizens who do not have permanent resident status.

Fletcher v. Haas applies only to non-citizens who have permanent resident (green card) status.

That line is from the pre-Fletcher v. Haas era when that statement was indeed true for all aliens. It remains true for non-green card holders.

I do not expect a non-resident permanent resident alien will have any difficulty due to citizenship status.

Though I agree that aliens who live outside of Mass should be able to get an LTC that is valid for more than competition, I don't believe that line is a vestigial oversight.

The line in the letter refers to a specific line of statutory text pertaining to issuance of temporary LTCs to non-resident aliens.

The Massachusetts legislature continued the statutory language that the line refers to when they amended the paragraph that it is contained within via the Acts of 2014 (which means that the competition wording will remain in the statutory language even after 1JAN2021), which was passed approximately 3 years after the Fletcher v. Haas ruling.

 

[ISOTOX]

All I can do is wish you luck. Good Luck!

 

[JAD]

So I just moved from MA to TN, using MA license reciprocity to carry while waiting for my TN license to process. No impropriety since I haven’t yet sold the home up there. Is there any fast track to just convert a MA resident license to non-res? I know it’s a fool’s hope but don’t want to miss the opportunity.

What a joke Mass has become since its cradle of liberty days.

Temporary non-resident licenses issued under 131F are handled by the state, entirely seperately from resident licenses (although, per Simkin elements of 131 are applicable to non-resident licenses eg. suitability, penalties, etc....). In order to get a non-resident license, a previous resident license holder would need to go through the same initial application process and visit to Chelsea as anybody else.

The previous resident LTC should be good for satisfying the BFS course requirement. Some people have also said that having a previous resident LTC without restriction can also be helpful towards getting a non-resident license without restriction.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Though I agree that aliens who live outside of Mass should be able to get an LTC that is valid for more than competition, I don't believe that line is a vestigial oversight.

The line in the letter refers to a specific line of statutory text pertaining to issuance of temporary LTCs to non-resident aliens.

The Massachusetts legislature continued the statutory language that the line refers to when they amended the paragraph that it is contained within via the Acts of 2014 (which means that the competition wording will remain in the statutory language even after 1JAN2021), which was passed approximately 3 years after the Fletcher v. Haas ruling.

Commonwealth v Haas established that permanent aliens are not treated differently. Permanent resident aliens are issued regular non-resident temporary LTCs (they are all called temporary) and I believe that clause still applies to non-permanent resident aliens. If anyone can find a plaintiff with a green card (the INS kind, not a MG license) that has been told "competition only since you are a non-resident permanent alien" bitch about it on NES and let Comm2a know. We have lawyers standing by (well, sort of .... but we will not go gently on this one).

Often times laws do not catch up with the court rulings which is why some anti-jew; anti black deed covenants were not removed until decades after the fair housing laws.

The fact that MGL Chapter 272 Section 36 has not been removed from the law books does not mean a court would enforce it. I deny that an omniscient being exists and created the universe. If this law is still enforced I can expect a knock on the door and a $300 fine or up to a year in stir.

 

[Guyute]

Op what’s your feeling on lube vs spit?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Op what’s your feeling on lube vs spit?

Frog Lube, Break Free or Mobile One?

 

[Texasgrillchef]

I think some states and those states that issue permits on a local basis are missing out on an awesome revenue generation stream.

Illinois charges $300 for a non resident permit.

if local areas and states are hurting for revenue.... passing out permits to carry could be a way. As well as training classes to bring more money into the state.

I had to travel to get my Illinois training, although Missouri got my travel dollars. Illinois only got money from my fees at the shooting range. The Illinois instructor actually lived on the Missouri side of St Louis! Lol.

 

[GuideStar]

The following restrictions may be applied to a non-resident LTC:

NONE – the LTC is issued for all lawful purposes with no restrictions. Applicant must show good reason to fear injury to his person or property.

EMPLOYMENT – restricts possession to a business owner engaged in business activities or to an employee while engaged in work related activities, and maintaining proficiency, where the employer requires carry of a firearm (i.e. armored car, security guard, etc.). Includes travel to and from activity location.

TARGET & HUNTING – restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns). Includes travel to and from activity location.

SPORTING – restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns); and for outdoor recreational activities such as hiking, camping, cross country skiing, or similar activities. Includes travel to and from activity location.

Hi, I am trying to understand the above.

--I get that a non-resident unrestricted LTC allows one to carry a concealed handgun in MA.
--I also understand that one can visit MA with a valid hunting license and be in possession of rifles and shotguns while hunting and transport them to and from the hunting location stored in a locked case with ammo separate and no LTC or permit of any kind is needed.

So what then, does a restricted LTC allow? Does it mean if you have a Target & Hunting restriction that you can carry a concealed handgun while recreational shooting, and hunting (in addition to your sporting long arm)? If you have the "Sporting " restriction does this also mean you can carry a concealed handgun while hiking, camping, skiing and "similar activities" (perhaps fishing and boating)?

Does "includes travel to and from activity location" mean you can carry concealed driving to and from the hunting site, camping location, hiking trailhead, etc?

Thanks for any info

 

[MisterHappy]

Carrying a handgun in Mass while hunting can be a big problem, depending upon the season and species.

No handguns are allowed while deer hunting. Some species may be lawfully taken with a handgun, but many have caliber/chambering restrictions, or restrictions on types of handguns (e.g. only revolver for black bear). If a season has defined, allowed firearms, DON'T carry a backup that differs. Even during shotgun deer season, you can't have a sidearm.

The NO LTC with hunting license exemption is only for long guns.

If you have a restricted LTC, I'd advise no concealed carry during transport. The restrictions are defined by the issuing authority - for Resident LTCs, the local PD spells out what's kosher, and what's not - the Commonwealth issues Non-Res, and they'd have to tell you.

Being in the woods during hunting season, with a firearm of any description can be construed as "hunting" as "hunting" is broadly defined in Mass. For instance, persons driving a deer (legal) have to have hunting licenses, even if they don't have a gun or bow.


I was helping a buddy that was a Falconer, by beating brush piles with a ski pole - that required a license (though the EPO I was discussing this with said, "We leave Falconers alone, because they're all crazy")

So the answer is "Maybe?"

IANAL

 

[AHM]

Carrying a handgun in Mass while hunting can be a big problem, depending upon the season and species.

I wuz thinking that.
(I don't think anyone imagines it's a wallhack to the hunting regs).

The only good part is that if you're caught,
you're "only" charged with some hunting violation -
not Carrying Without A License.

If you have a restricted LTC, I'd advise no concealed carry during transport. The restrictions are defined by the issuing authority - for Resident LTCs, the local PD spells out what's kosher, and what's not - the Commonwealth issues Non-Res, and they'd have to tell you.

Yeah, ^ that.

And if one asks EOPSS whether a hunting restriction means that
one can concealed carry while driving to/from the happy hunting ground,
one may not like the answer.

 

[greencobra]

wonder how the op made out acquiring all those ltc's? he's going to need one gigantic wallet to tote them all around.

 

[Mountain]

View attachment 397933
@Picton @Reptile

LOL, I don't know how I missed this gem, but nice work! I think I'll sign off on a good note now...