Is S&W retarded?

I'll give S&W and the Shield credit for introducing a new generation of gun owners to concealed carry. It was a good stepping stone for me as my first gun I bought myself. It was small enough to cut my teeth on conceal carry without worrying all the time if I was printing, yet still was 9mm. It was also affordable, so another good point of entry for first time gun owners. I have since matriculated to wanting larger carry pistols, but the Shield was a good first gun for me. Learning on such a small snappy gun only made shooting larger guns easier. It also ate everything I put into it, so there's a +1 for reliability.

That said, the grip is terrible. Like an oval that comes to sharp points at the front and back strap. The original stock triggers sucked too, but I suppose you can't expect a high grade trigger on a gun that can be had for $250. or less.
 
S&W last quarter financial results published on March 4th:
  • Quarterly net sales were $257.6 million compared with $127.4 million for the comparable quarter last year, an increase of 102.2%.
  • Gross margin for the quarter was 42.6% compared with 28% for the comparable quarter last year.
  • Quarterly GAAP net income was a record $62.3 million, or $1.12 per diluted share, compared with $4.2 million, or $0.08 per diluted share, for the comparable quarter last year.
  • Quarterly non-GAAP net income was $62.4 million, or $1.12 per diluted share, compared with $7.8 million, or $0.14 per diluted share, for the comparable quarter last year. GAAP to non-GAAP adjustments for income exclude costs related to the spin-off of the outdoor products and accessories business, COVID-19 related expenses, and other costs. For a detailed reconciliation, see the schedules that follow in this release.
  • Quarterly non-GAAP Adjusted EBITDAS was $89.8 million, or 34.9% of net sales, compared with $15.0 million, or 11.8% of net sales, for the comparable quarter last year.
So, to answer your question why aren't S&W release new products, well, they don't need to! They are selling their existing product like hotcakes! Instead of rushing to release new products, they are focusing on optimizing their production lines and building financial health.

Anyone who worked in a highly cyclical industry will tell you: when things are good, sell as much as you can because when the bottom falls out, you will need all your money and cool new products to survive!

The bottom WILL fall out from the firearms market. People who rushed to buy a gun because of fear will realize at some point that it was a rash decision and will try and sell the gun back to FFLs. FFLs will have a huge unsold inventory of mint guns. Why mint? Because of ammo shortage, most first-time gun owners would have purchased one box of ammo(if at all) FFL sold as part of new gun purchases. The massive inventory of essentially brand new guns will drive the prices of new(and used) guns making it VERY difficult for companies like S&W to sell new guns.
 
Look at what OP was complaining about.
The invention of the guns going after the shield and how slow smith was into the optic ready market when in fact they beat glock by literally years
Actually that's not really true at all, because technically the striker fired RDS fad was basically started by guys with aftermarket Glock slides that had RDS mounted on them. Yes, from oem pov, though, S&W had oem RDS first. But smith doesn't have as many skus set up like that. I also think Smith has not succumbed to the faggotry of putting an rds on a shield yet. They might have a performance center gun with one but there are not many common skus for shield etc. with an RDS on it that small.
 
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2021 and they just rolled out an AR pistol. I though "aren't they a bit late for that?" [laugh]
Remember folks, from 2001-2020 S&W was a subsidiary of other companies run by MBA’s who were passionate about quarterly results, not firearms.
 
Actually that's not really true at all, because technically the striker fired RDS fad was basically started by guys with aftermarket Glock slides that had RDS mounted on them. Yes, from oem pov, though, S&W had oem RDS first. But smith doesn't have as many skus set up like that. I also think Smith has not succumbed to the faggotry of putting an rds on a shield yet. They might have a performance center gun with one but they were like a common sku with an RDS on it that small.
The question wasn't who had aftermarket support first. There were people cutting the m&ps before smith had the core and glock had the mos as well
Op was complaining that it took smith to long to get into that market, and that is simply untrue. They beat their competition to market with an arguably better design by quite a while.
It had nothing to do with if dots are a good idea or not. I had a couple slide ride dot guns and they aren't for me.
 
Well, my striker SD guns are mostly free state .45 M&Ps (with the exception of a P365 in 9mm, which I hate). Carry the Shield 45. All work great, reasonably accurate, and eat any ammo I feed them. As far as I’m concerned, the plastic guns are all interchangeable, regardless of maker. I’m not going to blame S&P for shitty Mass triggers. Just drop in the kit and get over it. Love the ergonomics and natural point of the m&p. Friggin hate the Glock grip angle. YMMV

Potayto, potahto
 
Well, my striker SD guns are mostly free state .45 M&Ps (with the exception of a P365 in 9mm, which I hate). Carry the Shield 45. All work great, reasonably accurate, and eat any ammo I feed them. As far as I’m concerned, the plastic guns are all interchangeable, regardless of maker. I’m not going to blame S&P for shitty Mass triggers. Just drop in the kit and get over it. Love the ergonomics and natural point of the m&p. Friggin hate the Glock grip angle. YMMV

I thought you just told us they were all interchangeable? [rofl]
 
S&W last quarter financial results published on March 4th:
  • Quarterly net sales were $257.6 million compared with $127.4 million for the comparable quarter last year, an increase of 102.2%.
  • Gross margin for the quarter was 42.6% compared with 28% for the comparable quarter last year.
  • Quarterly GAAP net income was a record $62.3 million, or $1.12 per diluted share, compared with $4.2 million, or $0.08 per diluted share, for the comparable quarter last year.
  • Quarterly non-GAAP net income was $62.4 million, or $1.12 per diluted share, compared with $7.8 million, or $0.14 per diluted share, for the comparable quarter last year. GAAP to non-GAAP adjustments for income exclude costs related to the spin-off of the outdoor products and accessories business, COVID-19 related expenses, and other costs. For a detailed reconciliation, see the schedules that follow in this release.
  • Quarterly non-GAAP Adjusted EBITDAS was $89.8 million, or 34.9% of net sales, compared with $15.0 million, or 11.8% of net sales, for the comparable quarter last year.
So, to answer your question why aren't S&W release new products, well, they don't need to! They are selling their existing product like hotcakes! Instead of rushing to release new products, they are focusing on optimizing their production lines and building financial health.

Anyone who worked in a highly cyclical industry will tell you: when things are good, sell as much as you can because when the bottom falls out, you will need all your money and cool new products to survive!

The bottom WILL fall out from the firearms market. People who rushed to buy a gun because of fear will realize at some point that it was a rash decision and will try and sell the gun back to FFLs. FFLs will have a huge unsold inventory of mint guns. Why mint? Because of ammo shortage, most first-time gun owners would have purchased one box of ammo(if at all) FFL sold as part of new gun purchases. The massive inventory of essentially brand new guns will drive the prices of new(and used) guns making it VERY difficult for companies like S&W to sell new guns.

What this tells me is that I should have bought S&W stock last year before the pandemic hit....
 
I thought you just told us they were all interchangeable? [rofl]
Lol. I meant in terms of quality, accuracy, etc. Some have slightly better triggers (not in Mass), but unless you get into competition specific versions, they are mostly shit. Ergonomics is extremely personal. But I won’t judge someone by the brand of lego gun they carry. Just that they carry a lego gun in the first place, rather than a proper 1911 (joking).
 
My grandmother says "mongoloid", is that more PC or less?

My grandfather - who would be 105 or so now - was always asking my mom why she was driving "that Jap car". LOL He had worse. MUCH worse. But his WWII-era language for the German and Japanese was especially creative.

We still called Germans Jerry's well into the 1980's in my family.
 
Retarted: Occurring or developing later than desired or expected; delayed.

With the development of the Sig P365, Glock 43x/48/43x MOS/48 MOS, Springfield Hellcat, wtf I S&W waiting for? Don't even get me started on how slow they were to roll out optics ready M&P's.
You mentioned 8-9 options that are on the market now, what exactly are you bitching about?
 
The only reason to buy an M&P is that you can't figure out how to get a Glock in MA.

Getting a Glock in MA seems easy enough, but getting one at list price is a trick I havent mastered. Thus, S&W is my standard. I do have a couple of used glocks for the pre ban mag utility but I cannot see spending basically double for a gun. Offends the sensibilities.

And in the end I find the M&P fits my hand and natural aim point better anyway.
 
Getting a Glock in MA seems easy enough, but getting one at list price is a trick I havent mastered. Thus, S&W is my standard. I do have a couple of used glocks for the pre ban mag utility but I cannot see spending basically double for a gun. Offends the sensibilities.

And in the end I find the M&P fits my hand and natural aim point better anyway.
I’ll never understand this mentality. You’d prefer a Glock, you have mags for a Glock, but you bought something else because Glocks are an extra $200 in Massachusetts?

There’s a term for that which I can’t recall....finskirt, flintsin, schoolflirt...
 
My grandfather - who would be 105 or so now - was always asking my mom why she was driving "that Jap car". LOL He had worse. MUCH worse. But his WWII-era language for the German and Japanese was especially creative.

We still called Germans Jerry's well into the 1980's in my family.
Same here, but it was my father. He was in Germany in WWII, plenty of colorful names for everyone equally, but a special fondness for German's and Japanese.
 
Ruger revolvers are built like tanks. Ugly stupid old Russian tanks. They are cheaper because they are less refined. The grip design on Ruger revolvers sucks. A very good friend of mine says his .44 Ruger super blackhawk will "Make a grown man cry", but I can shoot my 29 all day.
If you like revolvers, S&W has many more configurations and options and, apples to apples, are just more accurate and easier to shoot. Ruger triggers are atrocious.

Neither company currently makes a decent semi auto, but S&W has in the past.
As I recall, the Smith 745 was a pretty nice .45 auto. I use to shoot steel, on a timer, with a animal vet, that competed with a 745.
 
S&W is living off their name, that's what sells their guns to first time owners and while their AR10's and 15's are fine and punch above their price class and they've got some decent revolvers nobody else makes (model 25, Governor, R8) they don't make what is hot until years later when its old news.

That said the Victory 22 pistol they came out with years ago was a really nice gun that they spent a long time developing to compete with the Ruger Mark III and it scared Ruger so much they rushed out a Mark IV lickety split that had all sorts of issues on launch. But that alone doesn't account for the lack of a competitor for the 365, plus they've got fugg all for a .32 wheelgun when those things are getting snatched up like TV's during the Rodney King riots, not too mention their CS is regarded as lackluster at best. I mean, it's not Taurus levels of slow, but it ain't Ruger or Charter. Considering who S&W is, you'd think they'd have the money to set up a service department that could be a faster turn around, but nope.
 
Why would they bother when they can sell M&P Hygeineproducts (shields) all day long? Most people arent total fgts and hung up on 3 rounds of ammo or whatever it amounts to.
If S&W made a 365 clone, they couldn't make them fast enough. Very ban state friendly pistol given the 10 rd mags, but small enough that with a steel mag could easily hold 14 or 15 rds in a small pistol for non shithole states.

Eventually people realize after buying them the M&P pistols are kinda crap. Like, they're a $300 pistol that costs $450. The Taurus G-Spot series is a way better value for a similar feeling and shooting gun.
 
If S&W made a 365 clone, they couldn't make them fast enough. Very ban state friendly pistol given the 10 rd mags, but small enough that with a steel mag could easily hold 14 or 15 rds in a small pistol for non shithole states.

Eventually people realize after buying them the M&P pistols are kinda crap. Like, they're a $300 pistol that costs $450. The Taurus G-Spot series is a way better value for a similar feeling and shooting gun.
Great. A S&W clone of a piece of shit Sig.

Taurus? C’mon, man.
 
There is a reason S&W are seles are so hot: their M&P line actually looks good to a newbie. don't forget, New shooters don't have the knowledge of which gun maker is good or what to look for in a firearm. All they have to go by is the name, looks, and price. S&W has nailed all three. I'm not a fan of S&W(I've never owned their guns) but I have to give them the credit: when it comes to new gun owners, S&W has figured out the "secret sauce".
 
At the gay parade. That's what I hear

Hey, I still carry a PPS M1. F*ck what people think.
[thinking] Hmmm.
but I suppose you can't expect a high grade trigger on a gun that can be had for $250. or less.
I bet you could get $400 for it in the classifieds. Throw in an Uncle Mikes Holster, a box of ammo, and call it a carry package. $525
Gross margin for the quarter was 42.6% compared with 28% for the comparable quarter last year.
Those bastards. Not only are they making shitty semi's, they are almost doubling their money too!
( 50% margin = 100% mark up)
So for every hundred bucks a distributor spends on an S&W, $42.60 is gross profit. That is pretty impressive.
 
The only reason to buy an M&P is that you can't figure out how to get a Glock in MA

The only reason to buy a S&W revolver is that you haven't shot a Ruger.



FIGHT ME! [laugh]
You are correct, Sir. The M&Ps are ok, but glock is way better. I had a S&W 442 and sold it because I didn’t like it. Got a Ruger LCR and it’s now my daily carry. Love it.
 
Respectfully, the only reason to buy a Ruger revolver, is that you haven't shot a Smith and Wesson. I've had lots of Rugers, in pretty much all calibers. The only Ruger handgun I ever liked was the single six, with 2 cylinders. I do like my .22 l.r. smith model 34 much better though. I bought a new single six, 32 years ago and still have it. No Ruger feels like a model 19, or like a 66. No Ruger feels like a 686. For sure, no Ruger feels like Dirty Harry's Model 29. Oh and I like the Ruger bearcat too.
I like both Ruger and Smith revolvers but Ruger gets the nod for one of the ugliest. The Super Redhawk looks like someone just stuck a pipe on it, they took a nice gun and made it fugly! I' mean did no one at Ruger look at this thing and say maybe we should rethink this?
 
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