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Is S&W retarded?

Daddy Mac said:

View: https://youtu.be/TQMcpFY4K-g
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I own one of those. One of S&W's finest creations as far as I am concerned. In single action the trigger is so light that if you breathe on it she will fire.
Just a beautiful gun. And no, she is not a safe queen. I shoot it.
If I ever HAD to make a shot, and had just one chance to make it, this would be the gun I would want. At 50', if you could control your adrenaline, you can literally put a round right between the eyes.
1640018641607.png

This was at 50' off hand, with crappy WWB ammo. At first I thought I had a flyer that missed totally, and then I looked closer...

1640018834153.png
 
Not the only time a manufacturer pulled this crap.

A good friend bought a new Les Bart 40 caliber comp gun. A local smith (the great Bob Javery, RIP) pointed out the comp diameter was sized for a 45, and the gun had a 45 caliber breechface, so he had it rebarrelled and made into a 45 - with no change in comp or slide.
 
Sammy said:
so let me get this straight: based on your experience with the SINGLE model, and a revolver at that, you're assuming all S&Ws are crap?

On top of that, you yourself admitted that you knew ahead of time that you would need to work on the gun. Sounds like you would not like ANY gun factory stock, regardless of the brand.

I wonder if you even bought a new sub-$700 striker-fired gun in the past 10 years. If you did, you would know that they ALL require work to make them run at a competitive level. ANY BRAND!

The fact of the matter is, not all S&W guns are bad, and no, they are not all great either. As with ANY brand, some models are good and some are not. S&W 500 shorty is good. Full-size MP is good. New Shield Plus is not bad either.
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Lol now you're just going full retard by claiming he thinks or says things he never said in this thread. That's usually something moonbats do.

Also you make statements about the products like its an absolute or something. Maybe in your worldview (which based on some of your other posts here seems to be pretty limited)
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The skill of doing that offhand at 50ft is more impressive than the gun. I've done similar ---- from seated position with a sandbag.
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Honestly, that was the best target of the day. Which is why I took the picture.
I won't deny that there may have been a little luck involved. That was one of those range trips where it just all seemed to click.
And I grant you that "right between the eyes" was a little tongue and cheek, but a 4"-6" target is doable consistently with a steady hand.
 
drgrant said:
Because removing a rear sight to work on fire control parts is stupid. It's a thing that you want to set once and never move it again. It's another thing you have to fix or could screw up when putting the gun back together. It makes working on the gun a pain in the ass. It's like having a car where you have to remove the radiator to change the oil. This is worse though, in a way.

I can't think of another major manufacturer that does this. HK, Glock, Sig.... none of them seem to do this.
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Agreed. Ask me how I know...

20211220_121517.jpg

Yup...didn't realize the set screw wasn't out all the way when I started pushing. Yes, I'm stupid because I didn't remove it 100%. I had actually stripped the set screw head and removed it as much as I could (god damn red loctite), but it was still sticking out like a fraction of a MM. All this just to install an Apex kit. Completely cosmetic, but a constant reminder of my own stupidity and the dumb design every time I look at it. The slide metal is a lot softer than I would have figured, as the pusher didn't even require that much force to do this.
 
1903Collector said:
You would think by now they would have gotten rid of the Hillary hole. The MIM parts I can deal with but that lock is just useless.
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They've got enough s*** from J frame carriers to at least offer versions that don't have the stupid f****** lock on it but I don't understand why they keep that stupid thing in there it doesn't help anything... it's not like it's a compliance feature or something. All the existence of that f****** lock does is make Smith look tone deaf.
 
No fan of the lock here. I've seen kits that let you remove the lock mechanism and plug the hole. You're still left with a slot against the hammer where the "locked" flag used to sit. No bueno.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
A good friend bought a new Les Bart 40 caliber comp gun. A local smith (the great Bob Javery, RIP) pointed out the comp diameter was sized for a 45, and the gun had a 45 caliber breechface, so he had it rebarrelled and made into a 45 - with no change in comp or slide.
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Les Baer has a real bad habit of charging premium prices for substandard products. I don't know how they've managed to keep a reputation when they are shameless about slapping a Gucci brand on a Chinesium grade product.
 
Sammy said:
I dare you to find ANY handgun(not revolver) for under $700 that has a great trigger out of the box.
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Challenge: accepted.
26686578-3a7a-4941-8ba9-c0f546cabba0.jpg
 
I was under the impression that what came out of the Performance Center was a gun that was tuned to be smoother and more accurate. Similar to Colt's Custom Shop - but more on the internals than the externals of the pistol.

I may be wrong, as my shooting is about on par with a "standard model" and I don't think spending any extra money on anything but ammo would improve my skills so I never really paid any attention.
 
tuna said:
I was under the impression that what came out of the Performance Center was a gun that was tuned to be smoother and more accurate. Similar to Colt's Custom Shop - but more on the internals than the externals of the pistol.

I may be wrong, as my shooting is about on par with a "standard model" and I don't think spending any extra money on anything but ammo would improve my skills so I never really paid any attention.
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That's how I used to think of them, too. I'm sure they're still capable of doing good work, but after buying one PC revolver and handling some other PC pistols I'm not convinced that every one of them gets the full treatment any more. Sticking with N frames I know, my regular production line 57 has a better trigger, cylinder lockup and accuracy than my PC 29.

Looking at it from the cynical side, my PC 29 has a full underlug barrel and no cylinder flutes. In effect, I paid them extra to skip machining steps. :D

Still a nice revolver, though. Just not as nice as it's older cousin.
 
I have had two PC guns, a 945-1 which was one of the most accurate guns I have ever owned and I currently have a 4.25" 1911PC which is my EDC, it's a great gun, but I have an early S&W1911 (JRD prefix) and the fit and finish on that gun is excellent, one I won't part with.
 
I got the Shield when it first came out and have to admit at the time it served its purpose quite well. But in the meantime other mfgs have surpassed it and S&W is being left in the dust. The Hellcat has excellent capacity, optics cuts, a very nice trigger, front rail mounts, excellent grip texturing and tritium front sights. The 365 has the X and XL models with slide cuts, the SAS if you're into that sort of thing, modular FCU, capacity, front rail mounts and oh yeah, tritium front sights. Both the SIG and the SA models with safties have real live safeties that you can actually manipulate easily under stress (if you're into that sort of thing).

Meantime the Shield still has no tritium front sight on the base model, mediocre triggers, limited capacity (even in the Plus), no provision for lights/laser unless you want to clamp something onto the trigger guard, a grip that is fair at best and a safety that is almost guaranteed to be missed in a sudden defensive deployment. S&W's latest innovations include a 10mm M&P (yawn) and a KelTec ripoff shotgun that still was an absolute trainwreck. Their great improvement to the M&P 15? Adding the same grip as the M&P pistols with replaceable backstraps. Yawn. Newsflash: The aftermarket is full of replacement grips for an AR, guys.

Their earnings tanked last quarter and they blamed in on the supply chain. Strange it wasn't affecting other manufacturers commensurately. Not buying it any more than when Southwest had to cancel flights due to "weather" but no other airlines had to cancel Southwest had labor problems, S&W has product problems. Hell they can't even keep the sights from falling off of the 2.0s that the MSP just rejected.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
Agreed. Ask me how I know...

View attachment 554292

Yup...didn't realize the set screw wasn't out all the way when I started pushing. Yes, I'm stupid because I didn't remove it 100%. I had actually stripped the set screw head and removed it as much as I could (god damn red loctite), but it was still sticking out like a fraction of a MM. All this just to install an Apex kit. Completely cosmetic, but a constant reminder of my own stupidity and the dumb design every time I look at it. The slide metal is a lot softer than I would have figured, as the pusher didn't even require that much force to do this.
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I bought a used shield with this mark on it - now I know where it came from! And yes, that rear sight is tight in there!
 
S&W is one of the oldest company in the America and World. But like any big company getting old and lazy
There is significant drop of quality in production for last decade
I wouldn't spend my money on their new product when I have choice to buy HK, Can in, CZ etc.
 
10 thousand+ flawless rounds out of my m&p 5" 9mm. 4000 flawless rounds out of my 4.25" 9mm. m&p 9c was my first pistol. Shoot over 7000 flawless rounds through that one. Also had a m&p 45 for a short period of time. Only shot 2000 flawless rounds out of that one. Unlike glock it doesn't feel like your griping a 2x4. Although i own other hand guns and like those as well i love the m&p all the same. Haters gonna hate and to be honest i don't really care lol.
 
btnh6668 said:
10 thousand+ flawless rounds out of my m&p 5" 9mm. 4000 flawless rounds out of my 4.25" 9mm. m&p 9c was my first pistol. Shoot over 7000 flawless rounds through that one. Also had a m&p 45 for a short period of time. Only shot 2000 flawless rounds out of that one. Unlike glock it doesn't feel like your griping a 2x4. Although i own other hand guns and like those as well i love the m&p all the same. Haters gonna hate and to be honest i don't really care lol.
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I have never seen the word "flawless" so many times in one post.

a1448359317_10.jpg
 
tuna said:
I was under the impression that what came out of the Performance Center was a gun that was tuned to be smoother and more accurate. Similar to Colt's Custom Shop - but more on the internals than the externals of the pistol.

I may be wrong, as my shooting is about on par with a "standard model" and I don't think spending any extra money on anything but ammo would improve my skills so I never really paid any attention.
Click to expand...
Performance center is a bunch of marketing BS today.

It is like taking a Honda Civic, slapping a body kit on it and say it is race ready. The car is still the same.

I am sure there was a time when PC did a good job, but today, you are just paying for a different look.

But don't worry, they have the 30 super carry now. F*CK YEAH!
 
Broccoli Iglesias said:
Performance center is a bunch of marketing BS today.

It is like taking a Honda Civic, slapping a body kit on it and say it is race ready. The car is still the same.

I am sure there was a time when PC did a good job, but today, you are just paying for a different look.

But don't worry, they have the 30 super carry now. F*CK YEAH!
Click to expand...

There is a nice PC642 revolver now that comes with a slicked up action, I thought that was pretty well done.
 

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