Is the Bushmaster M17S bullpup legal to sell in MA?

[dwarven1]

Just took in a Bushmaster M17S bullpup rifle in my shop in Vermont, and before I post it on Armslist I was wondering if I can ship it to an MA FFL in case someone in MA wants it.

Magazine behind the grip, no collapsible stock, no bayonet lug... this was a "ban" gun (made during the Clinton AWB ban) so no flash hider. It does takes standard AR mags, though.

Bushmaster M17S - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It seems to me that it would slide past the MA AWB... but I don't what effect the new law would have.

Anyone have any advice?

 

[wcorey]

If it wasn't legally owned in Ma on 8/1/24 to be anointed as grandfathered, it's an "ASF" and no bueno (other than to an ffl)...

 

[dwarven1]

If it wasn't legally owned in Ma on 8/1/24 to be anointed as grandfathered, it's an "ASF" and no bueno (other than to an ffl)...

What's an ASF? That wasn't a term when I escaped from MA.

What exactly would make the bullpup an assault weapon? I mean, if it's no good, it's no good... but I am still curious.

 

[MAJoe]

The law recently changed. There are not many semi auto, centerfire, magazine fed rifles which are legal now:

Assault Style Firearms

www.goal.org

 

[dwarven1]

The law recently changed. There are not many semi auto, centerfire, magazine fed rifles which are legal now:

Assault Style Firearms

www.goal.org

Hmm.

A semi-automatic centerfire rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has two of the following features.

a. Folding/telescoping stock
b. Thumbhole stock
c. Pistol grip
d. Forward grip or second protruding handgrip
e. Bayonet lug
f. Grenade launcher
g. A threaded barrel for a flash suppressor, muzzle break, or similar feature
h. Barrel shroud

I think that the barrel is threaded under those whatever-they-are on the the end... but if a smith shortened the barrel, then the only evil feature it has is the thumbhole stock. Interesting.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Hmm.


I think that the barrel is threaded under those whatever-they-are on the the end... but if a smith shortened the barrel, then the only evil feature it has is the thumbhole stock. Interesting.

Pin&weld the cap or replace it with a linear comp that you then p&w, and the barrel is fine. You may still run into trouble with the forend/barrel shroud

 

[Lucus]

This is how it works here in Massachusetts..!! Do as I say not as I do..!!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJiSztZNO-w

 

[wcorey]

What's an ASF? That wasn't a term when I escaped from MA.

What exactly would make the bullpup an assault weapon? I mean, if it's no good, it's no good... but I am still curious.

“Assault-style firearm”, any firearm which is:
(a) a semiautomatic, centerfire rifle with the capacity to accept a detachable feeding device and includes at least 2 of the following features:
(i) a folding or telescopic stock;
(ii) a thumbhole stock or pistol grip;
(iii) a forward grip or second handgrip or protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
(iv) a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor or muzzle break or similar feature; or
(v) a shroud that encircles either all or part of the barrel designed to shield the bearer’s hand from heat, excluding a slide that encloses the barrel.

As already mentioned, the barrel shroud, and then also the pistol grip are two features that combine to label it an asf and wouldn't be particularly viable to modify away on that design.
On an AR or AK a person could easily omit the pistol grip and/or handguard and legally sell/own it.
"Accessories sold separately" lol.
Except then there's the 'copies and duplicates' thing and the '7/16' thing if you want to go there...

Read the first post in this thread; Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

 

[dwarven1]

Pin&weld the cap or replace it with a linear comp that you then p&w, and the barrel is fine. You may still run into trouble with the forend/barrel shroud

As already mentioned, the barrel shroud, and then also the pistol grip are two features that combine to label it an asf and wouldn't be particularly viable to modify away on that design.

There is no barrel shroud. That's the upper receiver, and it's all one piece. But yeah, the threaded bbl might be a problem unless purchaser has me send it to an FFL who can modify it down there.

 

[MAJoe]

Pin&weld the cap or replace it with a linear comp that you then p&w, and the barrel is fine. You may still run into trouble with the forend/barrel shroud

You can pin a flash hider too. The new law only cares about the threads.

 

[wcorey]

There is no barrel shroud. That's the upper receiver, and it's all one piece. But yeah, the threaded bbl might be a problem unless purchaser has me send it to an FFL who can modify it down there.

Uh, ok…

So then I guess my LMT upper doesn’t have a shroud/handguard either since it’s one piece with the upper receiver, cool.


Not

 

[milktree]

Just took in a Bushmaster M17S bullpup rifle in my shop in Vermont, and before I post it on Armslist I was wondering if I can ship it to an MA FFL in case someone in MA wants it.

Magazine behind the grip, no collapsible stock, no bayonet lug... this was a "ban" gun (made during the Clinton AWB ban) so no flash hider. It does takes standard AR mags, though.

Bushmaster M17S - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It seems to me that it would slide past the MA AWB... but I don't what effect the new law would have.

Anyone have any advice?

That is one fugly gun.

I love it.

 

[wcorey]

There is no barrel shroud. That's the upper receiver, and it's all one piece.

Quoted from the wiki you linked to;

“the Bushmaster M17S uses an extruded 7075-T6 aluminum receiver that serves as the stock and foregrip as well.

The main drawback of the subsequent modified design, reported by some users, was the tendency of its aluminum hand guard to become hot after one or two magazines were emptied in rapid fire.”

Sounds like a shroud/handguard to me…

 

[Mesatchornug]

Quoted from the wiki you linked to;

“the Bushmaster M17S uses an extruded 7075-T6 aluminum receiver that serves as the stock and foregrip as well.

The main drawback of the subsequent modified design, reported by some users, was the tendency of its aluminum hand guard to become hot after one or two magazines were emptied in rapid fire.”

Sounds like a shroud/handguard to me…

One might counter that it doesn't protect the forward have from burns...though I think that's pistol language

 

[Parker Schreiber]

Sounds like a shroud/handguard to me…

This is the sort of "stuff" which puts money into lawyers' pockets. Let's Ignore for a moment that a barrel shroud has no rational relationship to " firearm violence." Can the state prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the purpose of the receiver design is "to shield the bearer’s hand from heat?" If so, the drawback you quote shows it's a bad design.

Similarly, I can't figure out if my PCC has a "barrel shroud" or not. Can you from this picture? About 9.5" of the 16" barrel is exposed:

 

[wcorey]

This is the sort of "stuff" which puts money into lawyers' pockets. Let's Ignore for a moment that a barrel shroud has no rational relationship to " firearm violence." Can the state prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the purpose of the receiver design is "to shield the bearer’s hand from heat?" If so, the drawback you quote shows it's a bad design.

Similarly, I can't figure out if my PCC has a "barrel shroud" or not. Can you from this picture? About 9.5" of the 16" barrel is exposed:

Obviously the law as written has massive deficiencies in clarity.
How do you explain the intended function of the ventilated part of your gun that encircles part of the barrel. It's approximately hand sized and about where you would place your hand.
What other function does it serve, could be argued it's a Heat dissipater for the barrel... How does the manufacturer describe it?

But then it could be countered that the length of the shroud is not specified in the law and in most cases shrouded barrels/handguards don't cover the entire length of the barrel. 'Common use' of that part would be handguard...

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

NES Disclaimer; Don't worry about it, just don't get in trouble, particularly with that gun.

 

[Parker Schreiber]

How do you explain the intended function of the ventilated part of your gun that encircles part of the barrel. It's approximately hand sized and about where you would place your hand.
What other function does it serve, could be argued it's a Heat dissipater for the barrel... How does the manufacturer describe it?

This is a take down carbine. You unscrew that part to separate the barrel from the upper receiver. It's also grandfathered, but it will matter should I decide to sell it.

 

[wcorey]

This is a take down carbine. You unscrew that part to separate the barrel from the upper receiver.

Ah Hah! That's a great argument and it's size is really no greater than what's required for the intended purpose.
Hopefully the manufacturer doesn't describe it as having a dual purpose as a handguard.