Ishapore Refurb BSA SMLE

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I was in my local FFL today, here in RI where gun stores are open provided the FFL follows social distancing protocols, and he has what I believe to be a 1940 No. 1 MkIII (no star) barreled action that I believe to be Indian. There's a lot of crap in the bore but the rifling is sharp and deep. I had previously thought about getting a Bubba'd No. 4 and building it into a faux "Rhodesian" sniper rifle. There's a few documented examples of Rhodesian troops using scoped Lee Enfields during the Bush War. Further, No. 1 MkIIIs appear quite often in Rhodesian footage and photos. The price is reasonable.

Talk me into or out of this project.
 
Who would talk you out of THAT?

Giving new life to a SMLE barreled action is practically a mitzvah.

ETA: A fun link I'm sure you've already come across.

 
Who would talk you out of THAT?

Giving new life to a SMLE barreled action is practically a mitzvah.

ETA: A fun link I'm sure you've already come across.


Correct, I had seen that link back when this idea first germinated last year. But I'm always glad to see pictures of Rhodie guns.
 
Wonder what the group over on the Milsurp subforum would say . . .

I'm very much a SMLE purist. But an Ishy action without any furniture has zilch for collector value.

They only manufactured like a gazillion of them. Better an Ishy than an unmolested LSA with the mag cutoff, say.
 
I spent a king's ransom and bought the barreled action for $75. Here's what I got. There appears to be no import mark at all, or even serial number. The only indication of where this barreled action came from is the name "SOUSA" stamped on the right side near the rear sight block. There's a No. 1 MkIII stamp, along with "F R" and 1940 on the left side of the stock wrist, under the safety. While I was debating whether or not to buy this, @daekken found out that on the left side of the stock wrist, this probably means "Field Repair" and is an Indian refurbishment mark. There's some proof marks that are pretty worn, such as a GRI under a crown, perhaps, where one would expect at the left side of the receiver, and a bunch of numbers scrawled on the bottom of the barrel where it meets the receiver, such as "M 21", "12", and "156", along with tiny amounts of yellow paint or stencil. There's no bolt. The rear sight and block, safety, and charger bridge are pretty rusted. There's some surface rust here and there. Looking down the bore at a light source, there's a lot of junk that looks like the gun was stored crown-up in a closet or in a room. However, the rifling grooves are clearly visible and rather deep. I didn't notice any evidence of a bullet that got lodged in the barrel. The barrel appears to have been refinished with either a deep blue or something like "British Black" because I don't see very much wear at all on the exterior of the gun. However, if it was an Indian refurb, that would make a fair amount of sense.

I estimate this to have a collector value of $LOLNO, so looks like I've got myself a nice project. For now, I sprayed everything down with a thick coat of RemOil just to keep the gun lubed. What I'll do next is soak the gun over this coming weekend or week with a penetrating oil to basically clean everything out. I'm thinking Ballistol? Any other suggestions? I basically want something that won't eat the finish or wood but will clean out all the gunk and hopefully a little of the rust.

Here's some pictures I took on the stove, please ignore the vegetable oil and spatula.

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SO USA or SOUSA. Hmmmm. Probably SOUSA based on the way it was put on there. But it could be a lame attempt at an import mark. Or some guy owned it who enjoys a dish of spicy meat with 4 starches and maybe a fried egg on top.
 
SO USA or SOUSA. Hmmmm. Probably SOUSA based on the way it was put on there. But it could be a lame attempt at an import mark. Or some guy owned it who enjoys a dish of spicy meat with 4 starches and maybe a fried egg on top.

Considering I bought the gun from a FFL in Pawtucket who got a fair amount of inventory from older, retired FFLs in Mass, and probably locals in the area, my suspicion is someone of Lusophone extraction purchased the gun and stamped their name into the rear sight block in an attempt to give the gun some sort of identifiable mark.

The gun appears to have had a serial number beginning with "156" at one point. I haven't been able to figure out what the big "M 21" on the receiver means. "M" is supposed to stand for "Mild Steel", but that doesn't make sense on a receiver in conjuncture with "21."
 
I wonder how that would turn out dunked in white vinegar for 5-7 days then washed and oiled.
 
I wonder how that would turn out dunked in white vinegar for 5-7 days then washed and oiled.

Vinegar would eat the one piece of wood behind the rear sight block, I would want to remove that.

One of my friends has a vacuum sealer and he thinks long enough rolls of bags that would allow me to put the barreled action in a bag, fill the bag with Kroil or ACF-50, seal the bag, then let it soak for a week or so.
 
Didn’t even notice that was wood. It looked like rusted steel. No worries about the barrel in a bag trick though. Fun project.
 
I'm sure you know you can pull off the wood, though the "ears" around the sight often break off especially if there's crap gummed up underneath where the spring clips are.

I'd make a serious effort at removing it.
 
hydrolyse it! Weak solution of baking soda and battery charger. This is how museums restore rusty items.

Hmm, I've heard of this, will investigate!

I'm sure you know you can pull off the wood, though the "ears" around the sight often break off especially if there's crap gummed up underneath where the spring clips are.

I'd make a serious effort at removing it.

Yeah, I know its possible, the wood just looks like its vintage to WW1 rather than WW2 in terms of how aged it looks. I'll give it a go.
 
The black finish might be Suncorite, which I don't think is dangerous after it cured at the factory, but I'd check on that. Something in it was good at frying livers. Not sure if that was only when it was wet and drying at the factory or something in it which if you make dust or render a liquid with other chemicals will be an issue.

There's a cold phosphating product called "British Black" meant to spray on and be stoved to touch up metal like that.
 
More often, the ears break off when people try to remove the rear handguard before removing the forestock. Yours will probably just "hinge" harmlessly away.
 
Hmm, I've heard of this, will investigate!

I use electrolysis frequently on all sorts of rusty stuff. I once did a BMW 3.5L block. The beauty is once you set it up you just walk away and let it do its thing. You do need to quickly dry and protect the part once removed to prevent flash rusting. A spray down with WD40 will do.
 
First update:

I'll likely be receiving two books tomorrow. One is Steve Houghton's British Sniper Rifle - a Century of Evolution, and the second is the Pretoria Arms Ammunition Association's Firearms: Developed and Manufactured in Southern Africa 1949 - 2000. The first book I hope will give me precise details about scopes, mounts, and other accouterments that would've been seen on WW1, WW2, or Cold War era SMLE snipers. Obviously, the SMLE wasn't a British sniper rifle after around 1917 when the P14 became the British standard, so more on that in a bit. The second book will hopefully provide information about SMLEs in Rhodesian service, snipers or otherwise.

Both books have the Gun Jesus seal of approval and I am quite excited about receiving these two books.

I think the best sniper rifle to pattern this gun off of would be the Australian No. 1 MkIII HT. These Lithgow snipers were built on No. 1 MkIII receivers around 1945-46 and had heavy barrels, an Australian Optical Company Model 1918 3x scope, either in a low, medium, or a high mount (I want low), and a cheek riser. Basically, an Aussie SMLE version of the No. 4 Mk1 (T).

I could try a WW1-pattern SMLE sniper, like the H&Hs, Purdeys, and Rigbys, however, that would be really anachronistic for a 1940 receiver and would also have an off-center to the left scope mount, which I'm not interested in.

There's three issues with cloning a No. 1 MkIII HT: my receiver's Indian, not Australian; my receiver already has a barrel on it, although I could take the barrel off and flip it towards a heavy barrel, which then creates the issue of where to get a Lithgow SMLE heavy barrel; and as far as I know, none of the 1,612 No. 1 MkIII HTs made their way to Rhodesia. However, that's hopefully where the second book will come in handy. Australians, either veterans or former civilians, found their way to Rhodesia during the UDI period and enlisted in the Rhodesian Security Forces. The No. 1 MkIII HTs also found their way into the Australian and American milsurp markets probably around the 1970s when the Australians retired the guns from sniper training purposes.

Of course, if the Rhodesians or South Africans had their own SMLE snipers, which I'll hopefully find out about once I get the books, the build would follow that format. But, a No. 1 MkIII HT would likely be not that difficult to clone except for the barrel, scope, and mount. Otherwise, everything's WW2-era Lithgow SMLE parts. If I need help with learning more about No. 1 MkIII HTs, Ian Skennerton referenced the guns in three books, so that'll be not too difficult to deal with.

Instructive links:

Lithgow SMLE No1 Mk3 HT – Lee Enfield Rifle Association of Australia Inc. (LERAA)

Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1917/1945 No.1 MkIII* H.T. Sniper Rifle (Short Bracket)

Documented Australian No. 1 Mk III* (H.T.) Sniper Rifle | Firearms & Military Artifacts Firearms Rifles Bolt Action Rifles | Auctions Online | Proxibid

No.1 MkIII* H.T. Sniper Rifle





 
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American Rifleman put out an online article on the Lithgow No. 1 MkIII H.T.s:

'A Grizzly Business:' Australia’s Lee-Enfield Sniper Rifle

Also, I have an idea what the flecks of yellow paint are on the receiver, barrel, and rear sight block. In countries that made Enfields, second-line rifles that were safe to shoot but had an out-of-spec defect, like rust damage, had yellow stripes painted over the action and barrel. So, this is a really unvaluable Ishapore, considering it was a second-rate rifle.
 
Got some updates and questions - there's going to be a bunch of pictures on the bottom for everyone's viewing pleasure:

(1) Turns out this isn't an Indian receiver. This is an early-production, likely pre-WW1, BSA receiver. There's also matching serial numbers on the receiver, barrel, and rear sight leaf. Ishapore then refurbished and scrubbed, to an extent, the receiver in 1940. Ishapore is known to have done this - taken early pattern Sh. L.E. rifles from before WW1 and refurb'd and modernized them while gearing up for WW2. The Indian Army went from about 250,000 to 2.5 million during the early stages of WW1.

(2) The barrel has a "H.V. S.C." stamp, which is supposed to indicate that the gun was originally built for MkVI ammo, which was standard issue between 1904 and 1910, but then updated for MkVII ammo at a later date. The barrel also has a "GRI" proof-stamp on it, which is an Indian proof. So, this has a BSA receiver and an Ishapore barrel.

(3) The yellow paint does mean second-rate service. So, this is a functional rifle that was somehow out-of-spec.

(4) "SOUSA" might be "Southern Ohio Guns, USA", but my bet's still on a former owner of Portuguese ethnicity.

(5) With this being an early-production BSA receiver, I'm cancelling the Rhodesian sniper rifle project because that would involve painting this with Rhodesian baby poop paint and also drilling and tapping the receiver for a scope. This now leaves me with three options: (a) put a sporter stock on but otherwise restore this into a functional Ishapore or BSA SMLE; (b) restore this into an Ishapore-pattern No. 1 MkIII from WW2 with a teak stock; or (c) restore this to an Edwardian-period SMLE, replete with walnut stock.

I would get the most use out of a sporter with a newly-made stock from a blank and this gun is never going to be "right" because of how much it was re-worked over the last, say, 115 years. I could avoid doing any modifications to the metal, such as drilling and tapping for a scope. So, if someone else wants to add on a military stock, they could without any issue. F*ck that shit.

Cloning a WW2 Ishapore isn't ideal because those are relatively inexpensive and common. However, it may be the best option for a stock because there's a fair amount of deactivated Ishapore No. 1 MkIIIs floating around. Deactivated Ishapores are around $120, so I could snag one of those, dump the receiver and the barrel, and harvest the stock, bolt, etc.

Going full Edwardian, with all the brass accouterments and bells and whistles, would likely be the hardest option and requires finding an original (or maybe reproduction?) walnut stock. Maybe I could use a stock blank? Don't know.

I'd prefer to either go sporter or pre-WW1. I'd get a lot of use and enjoyment from a nice, lighter sporter. The pre-WW1 guns also look very nice.

(6) I've cleaned up the outside with Hoppe's and surprisingly most of the crap came off pretty easy. The gun's still going to need to be refinished because of random rust and other defects. But, I want to pick up some sort of spray bore cleaner that I can blast down the barrel to hose out the bore. Brake cleaner? CLP? WD-40? Then run oiled patches down to lube? Suggestions?

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I don't use it on maintained rifles, but for gunked up milsurps I'll either plug the muzzle and fill with Ed's Red and let it soak, or use Gunslick Foaming Bore Cleaner a couple of times. Gunslick has a fair amount of ammonia, so watch where the foam oozes out.

I'd agree that a full Edwardian rebuild would be excellent, but I have no idea where to dig those parts up.
 
Well guys, I've decided no sporter. I don't want to be mistaken for a weird Canadian Fudd or hipster [laugh]



 
Yeah, I'd go Edwardian; the stock will be expensive to source if you go through the usual channels, but who knows? Maybe you'll find one at a yard sale or antique store or something? You bought the receiver from someone who didn't know what they had; maybe the same will happen with the rest.

I think it'll be more rewarding that way.
 
Got a few updates on this:

(1) I cleaned out the bore and the rifling is sharp and all intact, but there's some pitting.
(2) The chamber looks pretty dirty.
(3) To determine if the barrel's sufficiently intact to warrant restoration, I mailed the barreled action to BDL LTD in South Carolina. He's a specialist in Commonwealth guns. He also would have all the metal parts necessary but does not have any stocks. First step is to see what shape the barrel is in. Then go from there.
(4) If the barrel turns out to be toast, there's always the option of making it into a DeLisle:

 
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