Isosceles or Weaver stance

[ChevyGuy91]

Lol. I've fired a 20/29 a few times, and the recoil isn't that bad.

I carried a G29 for almost a year when I was a real internet ninja. Even with Buffalo Bore's hot stuff it wasn't all that bad.

 

[bill o]

One more Weaver vid.

 

[peterthefish]

I respect those guys that stand with there point and show not only skills in arguing their point but video to back it up.

For someone calling out a lot of folks for video proof, I must have missed the videos you've posted?

 

[kalash]

I carried a G29 for almost a year when I was a real internet ninja. Even with Buffalo Bore's hot stuff it wasn't all that bad.

It's not bad if you're shooting Weaver. Try it with iso and you'll get thrown back several feet.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

It's not bad if you're shooting Weaver. Try it with iso and you'll get thrown back several feet.

It would if I were a queer.

 

[schnips]

One more Weaver vid.

I love how all these Weaver vids look like they were dug up from the '80s

 

[just jim]

For someone calling out a lot of folks for video proof, I must have missed the videos you've posted?

ya my skills on the net are not great but it wouldn't matter what I posted, would it?

 

[just jim]

I carried a G29 for almost a year when I was a real internet ninja. Even with Buffalo Bore's hot stuff it wasn't all that bad.

So what do you carry now???? Was it the muzzle blast or the recoil or just couldn't afford to feed it that made you carry another gun?

 

[kalash]

Definitive proof that iso is the best:

 

[just jim]

It would if I were a queer.

Well you did change guns

 

[Whiskeyjim]

 

[Silversnake]

Definitive proof that iso is the best:

As a spectator to this thread who has greatly enjoyed it thus far, I feel the need to step in at this point and say I'm convinced. Though, additional similar data could make your case a stronger one.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

So what do you carry now???? Was it the muzzle blast or the recoil or just couldn't afford to feed it that made you carry another gun?

Well you did change guns

I realized carrying 10 rounds of an over powered and expensive pistol cartridge was stupid and sold the gun for more then I paid for it. I grew up and bought a Glock 19, that is what I carry now.

 

[teaser452]

Definitive proof that iso is the best:

/Thread

 

[bigblue]

Boys, I found the best Weaver shooter alive: Hickock45. You know why he uses it? Because he is cross-eye dominant. That is his reasoning.




Most of us simply train to use with our non-dominant eye, some of us are stubborn old farts.

 

[just jim]

I realized carrying 10 rounds of an over powered and expensive pistol cartridge was stupid and sold the gun for more then I paid for it. I grew up and bought a Glock 19, that is what I carry now.

Interesting, so the 9mm was considered underpowered and not a good defensive caliber for many years. The entire reason for 40 cal was because 9mm failed in the Miami shootout. I have read the reasoning for going back to the nine and I recall it being bullet performance has improved. So just out of curiosity do you buy the high dollar defensive ammo and train with it or is it also too expensive like 10mm is?

How long before they say 9mm isn't good enough again, it was a silver tip bullet that failed before? Seems they change guns and calibers about every 15 years or so. How well has the 19 worked for NY city, are they still having to shoot a man 20 times to kill him?

 

[drgrant]

How well has the 19 worked for NY city, are they still having to shoot a man 20 times to kill him?

Might help if they had better marksmanship and normal triggers instead of 15 ****ing pounds or whatever it is. . Their marksmanship (as a whole, there are probably some exceptions) is terrible. There was an incident recently where they were chasing some whackjob with a gun and like 2 or 3 bystanders got hit... and none of the bullets were from the bad guy's gun. NYPD and LAPD have some of the lowest base salaries and the highest turnover rates for LEOs in the country, not exactly a good place to start when talking about defensive shootings.

-Mike

 

[just jim]

Might help if they had better marksmanship and normal triggers instead of 15 ****ing pounds or whatever it is. . Their marksmanship (as a whole, there are probably some exceptions) is terrible. There was an incident recently where they were chasing some whackjob with a gun and like 2 or 3 bystanders got hit... and none of the bullets were from the bad guy's gun. NYPD and LAPD have some of the lowest base salaries and the highest turnover rates for LEOs in the country, not exactly a good place to start when talking about defensive shootings.

-Mike

Ya Mike but I just couldn't think who else uses the glock 19 when I posted. I was wondering how the poster made his decision as from what I read those who use the 19 need every round in the gun to bring down a bad guy. I do read but don't know for sure that NY uses ball ammo, do you know if that's true?

Edited to add do they use ISO?

 

[M1911]

Does isocolese do well shooting from cover?

Yes, it does. In fact, it works quite well around both strong side cover and weak side cover. Just try something for us. Take your gun to the range. Try shooting around cover on your weak side while in Weaver stance -- it doesn't work well at all.

It does really well when a guy stands in the open to shoot five unarmed targets.

You've never tried it, so you simply don't know.

What are those guys doing in real life? See its a game

Supermoto showed a video from Mike Seeklander, that apparently you didn't watch. In that video, Seeklander fires a 1911 with full-power, factory 230 gr ammo. He uses Iso. He controls recoil better than you ever did. Watch it.

Now, you are going to claim that he just plays games, he doesn't know the real world as you claim to know it. Here is a little background for Mike Seeklander. He is a former Marine. He was a firearms instructor at FLETC -- the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center for many years. After that, he was a Federal Air Marshal. He has both military and law enforcement experience. And he is also a USPSA Grand Master. And he shoots Iso.

Your assertion that Iso will get you killed in the real world shows that you simply don't have a clue what you are talking about. Stance has nothing to do with tactics. Stance has nothing to do with using cover, except that it is very hard to shoot around cover on your weak side when in Weaver.

 

[just jim]

Yes, it does. In fact, it works quite well around both strong side cover and weak side cover. Just try something for us. Take your gun to the range. Try shooting around cover on your weak side while in Weaver stance -- it doesn't work well at all.



You've never tried it, so you simply don't know.



Supermoto showed a video from Mike Seeklander, that apparently you didn't watch. In that video, Seeklander fires a 1911 with full-power, factory 230 gr ammo. He uses Iso. He controls recoil better than you ever did. Watch it.

Now, you are going to claim that he just plays games, he doesn't know the real world as you claim to know it. Here is a little background for Mike Seeklander. He is a former Marine. He was a firearms instructor at FLETC -- the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center for many years. After that, he was a Federal Air Marshal. He has both military and law enforcement experience. And he is also a USPSA Grand Master. And he shoots Iso.

Your assertion that Iso will get you killed in the real world shows that you simply don't have a clue what you are talking about. Stance has nothing to do with tactics. Stance has nothing to do with using cover, except that it is very hard to shoot around cover on your weak side when in Weaver.

Wehere do I start with all due respect to Seeklander ex military has been training folkes for many years, ever heard of Chuck Taylor or Jeff Cooper? Taylor has quite the combat record and from what I read a number of kills with a handgun. Cooper (with two known kills) did extensive training of our troops and police at Gunsite acadamy and was one of the founding fathers of combat pistol craft. At one time Taylor worked at Cooper school teaching Cooper's methods. Long before ISO came along men were taught to use the Weaver method and by what I read it worked well in battles.

Plus men like Alvin York killed 6 Germans charging him from 20 yards and he shot with one hand. It gets me when you guys post up something and say I must accept what you say because look at the credentials. Telling me I have no clue and I just have to accept what you say as fact. Weaver works, you may not like it but it does.

As related by Cooper when shooting against Weaver in a match. Target was at 100 yards and Cooper goes to the prone to shoot a possible. Weaver stands and shoots two in the ten ring to win....

 

[just jim]

Or how about Jim Crillo who survived 17 gunfights in five years in NY police department way back before ISO was even thought of. Read up on him, he was the one who coined the term NY reload or have another gun. Or how about Jelly Bryce who killed 19 men before ISO was ever heard of...

http://www.officer.com/article/10233523/legendary-lawman-jelly-bryce

My point is there is more than one way to hold a gun.

 

[just jim]

https://www.ipsc.org/results/hocBrowse.php?submit=1&level=World

So of the best of the best and here is the list of the world's best shooters, how many have ever been in a real gunfight?

 

[kalash]

Obviously Weaver "works" in that you can get a kill shot from it. You can also get kill shots one handed lying on your back - so what? Sure, you can be a good shot in Weaver but Iso is more natural, more stable, and allows for bettet movement. Despite your claim, stance has nothing to do with limp wristing or whatnot.

Boys, I found the best Weaver shooter alive: Hickock45. You know why he uses it? Because he is cross-eye dominant. That is his reasoning.

I'm cross-eye dominant and Weaver sucks. Iso works well because it doesn't matter at all which eye is dominant.

 

[Supermoto]

https://www.ipsc.org/results/hocBrowse.php?submit=1&level=World

So of the best of the best and here is the list of the world's best shooters, how many have ever been in a real gunfight?

The best of the best might not have been in gun fights themselves. But they do training the special forces of the military...pretty sure those guys have been in gun fights

 

[SJan]

https://www.ipsc.org/results/hocBrowse.php?submit=1&level=World

So of the best of the best and here is the list of the world's best shooters, how many have ever been in a real gunfight?

Where do you fall on that list?

Or is this one. www.ipscrating.com

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Interesting, so the 9mm was considered underpowered and not a good defensive caliber for many years. The entire reason for 40 cal was because 9mm failed in the Miami shootout. I have read the reasoning for going back to the nine and I recall it being bullet performance has improved. So just out of curiosity do you buy the high dollar defensive ammo and train with it or is it also too expensive like 10mm is?

Why would I train with expensive defensive ammo, when cheap 115gr ball ammo acts pretty close to the same in my hand while shooting?

How long before they say 9mm isn't good enough again, it was a silver tip bullet that failed before? Seems they change guns and calibers about every 15 years or so. How well has the 19 worked for NY city, are they still having to shoot a man 20 times to kill him?

I am not a cop, and I don't care about NYC.

Ya Mike but I just couldn't think who else uses the glock 19 when I posted. I was wondering how the poster made his decision as from what I read those who use the 19 need every round in the gun to bring down a bad guy. I do read but don't know for sure that NY uses ball ammo, do you know if that's true?

Edited to add do they use ISO?

16 rounds in the gun instead of 11? Cheaper to train with? Ammo availability? More comfortable gun? Smaller magazine with more capacity? Take your pick.

At the end of the day magazine and ammo commonality with the nightstand gun and my wife's carry piece was the real reason I settled on the G19. I am confident it will do the job just fine, God forbid I ever need to find out.

 

[Terminator03]

Definitive proof that iso is the best:

Ok, NOW I'm convinced. You wouldn't happen to have her number would you? I'm thinking that a picture may be worth a thousand words, but an in person demo is always best.

 

[kalash]

Ok, NOW I'm convinced. You wouldn't happen to have her number would you? I'm thinking that a picture may be worth a thousand words, but an in person demo is always best.

Best I can do:

 

[Terminator03]

Best I can do:

Thanks!

 

[just jim]

The best of the best might not have been in gun fights themselves. But they do training the special forces of the military...pretty sure those guys have been in gun fights

Well, just pointing out that the thug on a Chicago street has probably survived more gunfights than the gamesmen have. They don't even wear a holster and have no idea what iso is.