Jim Zumbo of Outdoor Life labels AR-15s Terrorist Rifles

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That story makes it sound like the NRA was behind Zumbos beheading when in fact the NRA had little or nothing to do with it. Zumbo was already toast before the NRA even issued any statement.

Well they had to get some traction to make them/us look like the anti-christ. Otherwise what good would the story be?

B
 

Scrivener

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Really it was Remmington [sic] that cooked his goose. Everybody made like the UK and cut-and-ran when Rem pulled sponcership [sic].

Remington, Stony Point, et al were responding to the internet firestorm. It was Remington which reacted first.

Moreover, the UK still has forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you want to talk "cut and run," look at Spain, which rolled over for the terrorists after the Madrid bombing; Germany, which refuses to deploy its troops anywhere they might actually get into combat; and Italy and France, which are - well, Italy and France.......... Nuff said.
 

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Remington, Stony Point, et al were responding to the internet firestorm. It was Remington which reacted first.

Moreover, the UK still has forces in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The UK is redeploying some of the troops from Iraq to Afghanistan because some of our other NATO "allies" are refusing to fulfill their commitments. Apparently the situation in Basra is such that the British feel they can do this safely.

If you want to talk "cut and run," look at Spain, which rolled over for the terrorists after the Madrid bombing; Germany, which refuses to deploy its troops anywhere they might actually get into combat; and Italy and France, which are - well, Italy and France.......... Nuff said.

Coincidentally, you've named some of our NATO "allies". <G> Except for France which quit in the 1960s while still benefiting from the presence of US troops in Europe.
 

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Coincidentally, you've named some of our NATO "allies". <G> Except for France which quit in the 1960s while still benefiting from the presence of US troops in Europe.

Well, OBVIOUSLY.

Who else BUT our allies would have been there to begin with, therefore being in a position from which to "cut and run" NOW?

You surely didn't expect Saudis, Kuwaitis or any other Arabs to police their own, did you? [rolleyes]
 

Garys

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Well, OBVIOUSLY.

Who else BUT our allies would have been there to begin with, therefore being in a position from which to "cut and run" NOW?

You surely didn't expect Saudis, Kuwaitis or any other Arabs to police their own, did you? [rolleyes]

I'm not sure I'd want them to. Something like this was proposed last Summer for the "peace keeping" force along the Israeli - Lebanon border. As if the UN "peace keepers" aren't bad enough.

But I digress.

I've never heard the term "Fudds" used about hunters before. I know where it came from, being a Looney Toons fan, but not the context. Is this something new or was it in use before Zumbo stuck his keyboard in his mouth?

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II've never heard the term "Fudds" used about hunters before. I know where it came from, being a Looney Toons fan, but not the context. Is this something new or was it in use before Zumbo stuck his keyboard in his mouth?

I believe the very apt appellation predates Zumbo's immolation; however, the incredible coverage of his idiocy gave the term incredible exposure and, it seems, general acceptance.

Note that it is NOT a synonym for "slob hunter," which is almost an oxymoron.
 

Garys

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I believe the very apt appellation predates Zumbo's immolation; however, the incredible coverage of his idiocy gave the term incredible exposure and, it seems, general acceptance.

Note that it is NOT a synonym for "slob hunter," which is almost an oxymoron.

That's another new one on me.

Gary
 
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I believe the very apt appellation predates Zumbo's immolation; however, the incredible coverage of his idiocy gave the term incredible exposure and, it seems, general acceptance.

Note that it is NOT a synonym for "slob hunter," which is almost an oxymoron.

I'm so glad you didn't say "redundant"[smile]
You DO know how to "Use your words!"

Prior to this "Zumbo" thread, I took "Fudd" as a nickname for hunters in general, not necessarily a insult. The flavor has changed.
 
J

Jose

Ever since I heard the pejorative Fudd for the first time at arfcom, I've taken it as a descriptive of hunters who treat guns as just a piece of sporting equipment. For them, firearms ownership is subordinate to killing something and even then, only firearms that fit their idea of proper are to be considered.

In essence, they are the hunters that will sell other gunowners (that they consider less than desirable company) down the river in a second if they think that will buy them some time with their Fudd guns. Not all hunters are Fudds, though. In fact, it appears that many are not.

As Scrivener also pointed out in some other thread, Fudds can also be non-hunting gunowners. Particularly the shotgun "country club" set that shoots only clay birds in competition.
 

O/U

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Wow, the venom in this thread saddens me.

Instead of using pejorative language to demonize entire groups of people, why don't you try to educate folks as to why it is your ability to buy AR15's is so important. Frankly, I think that most people who have a knee-jerk negative reaction to so-called black rifles just don't understand what is at stake, or can't see the long view.

As for the guy who said he pulled his membership from orgs like Ducks Unlimited and other such groups: our American countryside would look vastly different now if it weren't for groups such as these, and our shooting sports would most likely be in decline in a much more radical way than they are now. To write off and discount the good an organization does because it doesn't line up exactly with your expectations smacks of fanaticism to me.

This is precisely why gun owners are in such trouble these days: each side insists they're right and demonizes the other. I guess if someone were to label me, I'm a "Fudd": a gun to me is a tool and nothing more. Like any tool, I take good care of it and enjoy its use. I also recognize the importance of the AR15 community with respect to the 2A, and support our right to bear these arms even though I personally do not own one.

I meet a lot of hunters like me. I don't personally know many hunters who think AR15s should be banned. In fact, for most hunters I know it's really not on the radar at all. They are more concerned with the future of their sport, the subdivision that just paved a century-old orchard with manicured lawns, and with the health of their quarry and its habitat, than with the finer points of the black rifle debate. This is a good thing. If hunters aren't there to advocate for nature conservancy then shooting sports in general are going to suffer big time.

The thought that my brethren gun owners are running around out there using terms like "Fudd" is disappointing to me, and is indicative of a serious pathology within American culture in general: the need to reduce and objectify, and ultimately dehumanize those that represent a differing viewpoint.

I see this again and again on this site (and others) whether it's about a specific person in office, an entire political party, or a group of gun owners with a different interpretation of what it means to bear arms. All the good is forgotten.

I'm not foolish enough to think that this post will change anything. Otherwise reasonable people tend to put up straw men in internet arguments. I'm just expressing a distaste for the divisive commentary and snide remarks. Most importantly, I'm trying to suggest that both groups, the Fudds and the AR15 crowd, are essential to the future of shooting sports. We need the hunter who cares more for nature than he does his half-rusted 870, just as much as we need the ardent AR15 owner who punches holes in paper all day.

This entire debate falls right into the anti's hands: divide and conquer. You might as well just write a check to the Brady campaign right now and save time and energy.

Tom
 

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A knee jerk reaction by a gun owner because someone uses a black rifle is nothing more than ignorance. Yeah we need everyone on the same team, but when one of our teammates uses his national podium to spout his ignorance and hurt the team, well he got what he had coming.
 
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Tom - Nice post and though I understand your position, I'm unsure as to how familiar you are with this thread's history. I'm fairly certain that if you research this incident, you will clearly see a pattern of the hunting community distancing themselves with the rest of us. Many of us have had these experiences personally. I tried to start a weekly AR-15 match at my club and made small posters and put them up on bulletin boards. Twenty three of them were torn down, torn up and thrown in the trash before I finally gave up. The looks I get at the range when I open my rifle case and pull out my SOCOM-16, Uzi or HK are not a result of my paranoia - they are the result of a class of sportsmen who have placed their sporting purpose above the rest of us. There are exceptions to the rule, of which you seem to be one. However, there are many more who look down their noses at anyone who isn't shooting a wooden stocked bolt action rifle or a skeet gun. Jim Zumbo sparked outrage in many shooters which was long hidden. Perhaps you should redirect your outrage to those who have truly sought to divide and conquer....Just a thought.
 

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+1,000,000

I have been trying to say the same things here for quite awhile, but have not been able to do so as eloquently. Very well done!



Wow, the venom in this thread saddens me.

Instead of using pejorative language to demonize entire groups of people, why don't you try to educate folks as to why it is your ability to buy AR15's is so important. Frankly, I think that most people who have a knee-jerk negative reaction to so-called black rifles just don't understand what is at stake, or can't see the long view.

As for the guy who said he pulled his membership from orgs like Ducks Unlimited and other such groups: our American countryside would look vastly different now if it weren't for groups such as these, and our shooting sports would most likely be in decline in a much more radical way than they are now. To write off and discount the good an organization does because it doesn't line up exactly with your expectations smacks of fanaticism to me.

This is precisely why gun owners are in such trouble these days: each side insists they're right and demonizes the other. I guess if someone were to label me, I'm a "Fudd": a gun to me is a tool and nothing more. Like any tool, I take good care of it and enjoy its use. I also recognize the importance of the AR15 community with respect to the 2A, and support our right to bear these arms even though I personally do not own one.

I meet a lot of hunters like me. I don't personally know many hunters who think AR15s should be banned. In fact, for most hunters I know it's really not on the radar at all. They are more concerned with the future of their sport, the subdivision that just paved a century-old orchard with manicured lawns, and with the health of their quarry and its habitat, than with the finer points of the black rifle debate. This is a good thing. If hunters aren't there to advocate for nature conservancy then shooting sports in general are going to suffer big time.

The thought that my brethren gun owners are running around out there using terms like "Fudd" is disappointing to me, and is indicative of a serious pathology within American culture in general: the need to reduce and objectify, and ultimately dehumanize those that represent a differing viewpoint.

I see this again and again on this site (and others) whether it's about a specific person in office, an entire political party, or a group of gun owners with a different interpretation of what it means to bear arms. All the good is forgotten.

I'm not foolish enough to think that this post will change anything. Otherwise reasonable people tend to put up straw men in internet arguments. I'm just expressing a distaste for the divisive commentary and snide remarks. Most importantly, I'm trying to suggest that both groups, the Fudds and the AR15 crowd, are essential to the future of shooting sports. We need the hunter who cares more for nature than he does his half-rusted 870, just as much as we need the ardent AR15 owner who punches holes in paper all day.

This entire debate falls right into the anti's hands: divide and conquer. You might as well just write a check to the Brady campaign right now and save time and energy.

Tom
 

jkelly

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This entire debate falls right into the anti's hands: divide and conquer. You might as well just write a check to the Brady campaign right now and save time and energy.---o/u
No, I think Zumbo’s original post fell right into the anti’s hands showing an existing division between Fudds and Black rifle shooters, one that they could exploit. I think the responses to Zumbo’s original anti black rifle post, to include this thread, was a good thing for the 2nd Amendment.

It at least changed Zumbo’s opinion (or so he says) of black rifles and he now uses his pulpit to include them rather then exclude them, narrowing the gap between the two groups.

I’m glad it happened and I am very heartened to have been witness to the response Zumbo’s OP elicited!

I don't own a black rifle and I am a Fudd!


Respectfully,

jkelly
 

O/U

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Tom - Nice post and though I understand your position, I'm unsure as to how familiar you are with this thread's history. I'm fairly certain that if you research this incident, you will clearly see a pattern of the hunting community distancing themselves with the rest of us. Many of us have had these experiences personally. I tried to start a weekly AR-15 match at my club and made small posters and put them up on bulletin boards. Twenty three of them were torn down, torn up and thrown in the trash before I finally gave up. The looks I get at the range when I open my rifle case and pull out my SOCOM-16, Uzi or HK are not a result of my paranoia - they are the result of a class of sportsmen who have placed their sporting purpose above the rest of us. There are exceptions to the rule, of which you seem to be one. However, there are many more who look down their noses at anyone who isn't shooting a wooden stocked bolt action rifle or a skeet gun. Jim Zumbo sparked outrage in many shooters which was long hidden. Perhaps you should redirect your outrage to those who have truly sought to divide and conquer....Just a thought.

You're probably right, I am late to the debate and the thread. It is outrageous that your posters were taken down, and I am ashamed that those who took down your posters might have been hunters.

I've never witnessed anything like that, and I can't imagine the folks I hunt with ever doing such a thing.

I still maintain that we need to take the high road and demonstrate civility no matter where we are.
 
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IMO

There are really only two sides if people decide to ailenate themselves to one or the other. I have a good friend who's obvious passion is hunting. He goes for an entire month in November every year and has for at least the last 20. Uses the right tools for the job - his "FUDD Guns" but when he comes back man can he shoot an IPSC rifle stage, bowling pin match, or tactical rifle match with his AR's or AK's.

I am not a hunter but I have respect for it. It just doesn't interest me. As an action shooter and someone who tends typically to like the darker colored boom sticks, I have felt the peering eyes and heard the snide remarks at the range. I've also watched those same people stick around and watch a match or two and leave saying "wow- some of those guys can really shoot."

I guess my point is I have never really understood why shooting is so divided. To me there are no "Fudd" guns or "Black" guns. They are just guns. And I like to shoot them- as many different ones as possible. I do have my favorites though.

I can't label certain groups of shooters Fudds because they hunt or only shoot bullseye or trap ect... I just label anyone who is a dickhead a Fudd. And they can be found in every aspect of shooting.

If I had more time and money I would probably end up participating in every type of shooting sport there is!

Merry Christmas!
 

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I just label anyone who is a dickhead a Fudd. And they can be found in every aspect of shooting.

I pretty much do the same thing. I do a little of everything, hunting, competition shooting, and rec shooting. In each of those groups there are guys who I would consider Fudds. And again IMO being a Fudd is simply being ignorant. Sometimes you can lead a Fudd to the light, other times they are gone.
 

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I don't have an EBR. I DO have a few milsurp rifles, though - wood-stocked. Two semis and an bolt gun. Mostly, I shoot pistol or .22 rifle. IDPA, Appleseed... I have a shotgun; I got it for deer hunting. I've tried shooting skeet and trap, and I just have zero interest. Shotguns bore me. I do, however, have a lot of respect for the skeet and trap shooters because it's darned HARD for me... so I have respect for anyone who can do that.

My point is, I don't really look down on any other kinds of shooter (my snide comments about that race gun aside!)... even though I don't do a particular kind of shooting, I know too well what kind of work it takes to master a skill... be it 10 meter air pistol, skeet, CAS... whatever.

I do, however, look down on the shotgun-owning idiot who votes Democratic because "oh, they won't ban MY guns". [rolleyes] Because he's basically got his head in the sand and is NO friend to his fellow shooters.
 

Scrivener

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I guess if someone were to label me, I'm a "Fudd": a gun to me is a tool and nothing more. Like any tool, I take good care of it and enjoy its use. I also recognize the importance of the AR15 community with respect to the 2A, and support our right to bear these arms even though I personally do not own one.

Then you aren't a Fudd.

A Fudd is ignorant and short-sighted. He (I've never received a call from a single female hunter so obtuse) has no idea what is happening around him, has no clue about the changes in the law until he can't buy his one box of "bullets" for the season and thinks no-one needs a handgun or an "assault weapon."

He therefore is perfectly willing to throw non-"hunting" guns to the anti's, together with their owners.

The essence of the Fudd is this: Like the capos in the camps, he thinks if he keeps his head down and sucks up to his enemy, they'll kill him last.
 
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Then you aren't a Fudd.

A Fudd is ignorant and short-sighted. He (I've never received a call from a single female hunter so obtuse) has no idea what is happening around him, has no clue about the changes in the law until he can't buy his one box of "bullets" for the season and thinks no-one needs a handgun or an "assault weapon."

He therefore is perfectly willing to throw non-"hunting" guns to the anti's, together with their owners.

The essence of the Fudd is this: Like the capos in the camps, he thinks if he keeps his head down and sucks up to his enemy, they'll kill him last.

Perfect analogy - thank you.
 
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Then you aren't a Fudd.

A Fudd is ignorant and short-sighted. He (I've never received a call from a single female hunter so obtuse) has no idea what is happening around him, has no clue about the changes in the law until he can't buy his one box of "bullets" for the season and thinks no-one needs a handgun or an "assault weapon."

He therefore is perfectly willing to throw non-"hunting" guns to the anti's, together with their owners.

The essence of the Fudd is this: Like the capos in the camps, he thinks if he keeps his head down and sucks up to his enemy, they'll kill him last.

+1 and then some. The Fudds aren't as smart as the capos, though. The capos know they're in line to be killed. The Fudd thinks the Antis aren't after HIS firearms, if he cooperates.

O/U, you are clearly NOT a Fudd. You "get it" that the Antis are after ALL firearms, starting with the ones easily ostracized.

The Fudds are the sporting guys that think if they throw the EBR/MBR/Pistol shooters to the Antis, then the Antis won't go after their precious tools. They are SO wrong. They also think they are better than us "slobs" that own semi-autos. There's even semi-auto folks that think they're better than OTHER semi-auto folks. That's the reason I won't rejoin the NRA. They're in some ways anti-gun. (AWB '94 and FOPA '86)
 
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