Joint Base Cape Cod range

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Looks like the National Guard is going forward with plans for their new training range. Local media has been running what are in my opinion inflammatory/instigatory stories. One thing I get a bit of an eye roll out of is instead of calling it a shooting range, it's a "machine gun range."

I've talked with Gottlieb before. Don't necessarily dislike the guy, but I tend to disagree with his opinions more often than I agree with them. He's not going anywhere and he's tied in to a lot, so his opinion matters.

National Guard finds proposed gun range wouldn't impact environment
 
Is it not, in fact, an MG range?

The parameters for constructing those are a lot different than for rifles.

I get that abutters and do-goodniks are going to have problems with these kinds of things all the time, but living adjacent to an active NG base is like living near Logan: you don't get to complain about the noise. You knew what you were moving into.

Environmental impacts have been a mess for awhile now, but the military's record on the environment is actually not that bad since the '70s overall. To a fault.
 
I was not aware of that. What sort of differences are there?

To simplify, ranges for rifle qualifications can be sort of rectangular because everyone is firing basically straight ahead, and because 5.56 only goes so far. MG qualification requires gunners to traverse, and 7.62 NATO flies a lot farther. So the ranges have to be a lot more fan-shaped.

It's a lot more acreage for an MG range, overall. We're a long way from when my dad was at Ft Ord and they simply fired off the beach into the ocean.
 
Looks like the National Guard is going forward with plans for their new training range. Local media has been running what are in my opinion inflammatory/instigatory stories. One thing I get a bit of an eye roll out of is instead of calling it a shooting range, it's a "machine gun range."

I've talked with Gottlieb before. Don't necessarily dislike the guy, but I tend to disagree with his opinions more often than I agree with them. He's not going anywhere and he's tied in to a lot, so his opinion matters.

National Guard finds proposed gun range wouldn't impact environment
Well it IS a range that will engage machine guns. So, it is ok to call it a machine gun range.

And, it is a necessary upgrade to the range presently there.

These neighbors should shut the f*** up and be glad people are serving their country and protecting THEM!
 
Looks like the National Guard is going forward with plans for their new training range. Local media has been running what are in my opinion inflammatory/instigatory stories. One thing I get a bit of an eye roll out of is instead of calling it a shooting range, it's a "machine gun range."

I've talked with Gottlieb before. Don't necessarily dislike the guy, but I tend to disagree with his opinions more often than I agree with them. He's not going anywhere and he's tied in to a lot, so his opinion matters.

National Guard finds proposed gun range wouldn't impact environment
Machine gun ranges in the army are set up totally different than rifle ranges. If they are calling it a machine gun ramfe then that's what it is. Dont turn it into politics.
 
Yeah they want others to serve but dont train in their back yards.
Theres probably alot of people living on cape that dont “feel” like the “military” is protecting them.
Not from a cape cod resident but I had a old WWII vet once say in a conversation
If “we” are not declaring war “we” are just renting our troops out. This was around the time of the gulf “war”
 
To simplify, ranges for rifle qualifications can be sort of rectangular because everyone is firing basically straight ahead, and because 5.56 only goes so far. MG qualification requires gunners to traverse, and 7.62 NATO flies a lot farther. So the ranges have to be a lot more fan-shaped.

It's a lot more acreage for an MG range, overall. We're a long way from when my dad was at Ft Ord and they simply fired off the beach into the ocean.
Copy that. Thanks for the info.

I have a bunch of 50 BMG, both live rounds and empty cases, from when they used to train anti aircraft gunners at Marconi Beach, then Camp Wellfleet. It used to just roll down out of the dunes as they eroded. I have one shell from a 20mm Vulcan found on the beach there, too. Maybe ten years ago a nurse was visiting there, who had cared for someone who had trained there as a gunner. They'd shoot at drones, and targets towed behind manned planes. He said the safety system they had in place when shooting at the towed targets is the instructor had a line wrapped around the trainee's wrist. If the rounds started getting too close to the manned tow plane, the instructor would pull the line and yank the student's hand off the grip and butterfly trigger. :)
 
Yeah they want others to serve but dont train in their back yards.
Theres probably alot of people living on cape that dont “feel” like the “military” is protecting them.
I miss when we used to have F15s and USCG Falcons flying over regularly. Although two days ago I saw either a C5 or a C17 go right over the house, something enormous. Surprisingly quiet plane for its size.
 
So, this is a little retarded, unfortunately.

The range they want to expand is some retard range at the extreme south of the impact area. The firing line of this range is ~400m from the nearest house, it appears to be the closes range to the installations border and also the closest range to a civilian home. So thats a real shit start.

There is a traditional 300 yard pop up range located at the north east (ish) end of the impact area facing south west (ish). There's plenty of f***ing woods and shit around that they could bulldoze, fill, cut, whatever. For reference, the closest civilian building from this current 300 popup firing line is ~2,000m. Which if my math is correct is more than 400m.

At this weird, apparently unknown range on this installation, it appears that there is zero shit worth hitting by accident for 2 miles south west of this range area. However, this is the military. Specifically the MA national garage and associates. If there's one thing these people are good at, it's making the worst f***ing choices possible. a long time ago we were at the cape shooting tungsten nylon 5.56x45mm M855LF I think. Talk about f***ing expensive holy shit. I got my 43 rounds of training that weekend, amazing!

They should know better. When Devens was mostly closed we lost more and more shit we could do in the impact area. Since MA has a combat engineer battalion, you'd hope that we'd have a place to use explosives in the state. Devens had (maybe still has?) a small demo range. Even nearly 20 years ago the new neighbors who built intentionally close to the impact area would bitch about a handful of days per year where demolitions was used. And as a result, we weren't able to use it anymore. These are the same people who say shit like "support the troops" and "thank you for your service."
 
I grew up hearing the artillery.
Machine gun, Ha!
Sound of freedom!
 
As far as where they are putting the range, I have no idea as I'm not familiar with that guard base.

I will say planning a range is a bit more than let's make sure we have a good backstop. Lots of criteria involved. Lots of things that can mitigate as well.

Some examples of FIXED firing points. See how laying this out can be a bitch? Now if you add in maneuver, you're adding a whole 'nother level of complexity.

4.PNG
1.PNG

2.PNG

3.PNG
 
I grew up hearing the artillery.
Machine gun, Ha!
Sound of freedom!
*blink*
That's hilarious, and terrifying. :)
 
This one shows the existing KD range and new proposed range shaded in yellow, in relation to the base overall and surrounding communities.
 

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Another base with a machine gun qual range near off post houses, both 10 meter and then the transition range to the west.

example.PNG
 
Here is a map from the project’s summary report. Just click on it.

This post nails it, OP. It's what I was saying in Post #4. That grey sliver in the middle of all the fans would be a typical small-arms range; add MGs and everything gets a lot more sporty.
 
I grew up hearing the artillery.
Machine gun, Ha!
Sound of freedom!
Our house in Buzzards Bay would shake when the 105s were fireing, sure do miss it.
 
I've lived in Bourne for just about 40 years and have never been bothered by any of the noise out there, whether from the artillery, the jets, or the current range use. I hear it all, and feel the house shake occasionally, and it doesn't bother me one bit. I am FAR more annoyed by the neighbors constant 24/7 yipping dogs. Granted I'm not as close to the ranges as some of those in Forestdale but, like someone else pointed out, don't move next to a military base then complain about military stuff going on... FWIW, I have a bunch of friends in that Forestdale neighborhood that abuts the area--none of them mind the noise one bit either. They knew what they were getting into.

My current house is right over the flight path for most of the big stuff that occasionally comes in, and is also under a common route for the USCG Jayhawks heading out to Buzzards Bay. I still get a thrill out of running out of the house and watching whenever something cool flies over. But I also went to school out there (K through 8), spent 6 years working for the Air Guard, and had a parent that worked out there 30+ years. So maybe I'm a little biased...
 
I saw the title of this thread and thought it was going to be some spicy discussion about how service members should be able to use the ranges on base on their own time. Instead I’m looking at maps & diagrams. Boring 😔
 
My current house is right over the flight path for most of the big stuff that occasionally comes in, ...
You can probably make that work with long enough stilts.

It's the houses that are not exactly over and not exactly under
that have most of the problems.
57bfb7ee48860.image.jpg
 
I'm surprised they wouldn't just swing up to Devens to do their training vs spending a ton of tax dollars for another range that will sit vacant most of the time.
 
I'm surprised they wouldn't just swing up to Devens to do their training vs spending a ton of tax dollars for another range that will sit vacant most of the time.

Don't get me wrong-I thing the Cape is a poor place to have a training base, but Devens is even worse.

I've never been to Devens, but even their range control's own page says it's a shitty training area. Also, a quick google map search shows nothing close to a decent MG range like the one proposed. Devens has one four lane?!!!? MG range that is just a c***hair over 800 meters and it doesn't have the required 10 meter range to go with it.
 
Don't get me wrong-I thing the Cape is a poor place to have a training base, but Devens is even worse.

I've never been to Devens, but even their range control's own page says it's a shitty training area. Also, a quick google map search shows nothing close to a decent MG range like the one proposed. Devens has one four lane?!!!? MG range that is just a c***hair over 800 meters and it doesn't have the required 10 meter range to go with it.
I've been on range at Devens and had the opportunity to shoot on their Golf and Hotel ranges. That place is absolutely massive, I'd imagine they have something out there on their grounds that is worthwhile.
 
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