Jump starter / inverter?

[garandman]

I'm going to buy a jump starter - basically a portable battery pack - because this time of year my boat batteries always run down if it rains a lot since the bilge pump is always on and we don't use the boat as much.

There seem to be some decent ones for $100 or less. But for $100 to $150, some advertise an AC inverter as well. This would be a pretty handy addition for around the house, in the trunk, etc.

But reading reviews, they all seem to be pretty poor products. The Sears model has nearly as many one star reviews as five star.

Anyone look into this? WalMart apparently stocks Schumaker models that seem wel regarded - but not the inverter type.

 

[MRE]

It sounds like you need a float charger for your boat battery. Plug it in to shore power and it will keep the battery charged while the bilge pump cycles.

I've never liked the design of the jump starter packs. They typically use much smaller batteries than a normal vehicle battery, and don't offer much of a boost.

 

[LandOLakeS]

I use this at work http://www.amazon.com/Schumacher-PSJ-2212-ProSeries-Starter-Portable/dp/B000N4UQL6%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-z-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB000N4UQL6 It has never had any issues. Does not have the inverter but is still a good jumper pack. A jumper pack is a nice tool to have. It has a far lower CCA then the batteries in the cars, but still works great.

a trickle charger or something is also a good idea to keep the batteries charged.

 

[Jason]

I'm going to buy a jump starter - basically a portable battery pack - because this time of year my boat batteries always run down if it rains a lot since the bilge pump is always on and we don't use the boat as much.

There seem to be some decent ones for $100 or less. But for $100 to $150, some advertise an AC inverter as well. This would be a pretty handy addition for around the house, in the trunk, etc.

But reading reviews, they all seem to be pretty poor products. The Sears model has nearly as many one star reviews as five star.

Anyone look into this? WalMart apparently stocks Schumaker models that seem wel regarded - but not the inverter type.

I've had good luck with the Duracell Powerpack 600. They were only $130 a year ago. I almost baulked at the price then and now they are $170. Its worked great for me though. It can go months without charging it and still use it to jump a v8 engine. The $40 cheapy one from VIP I had before would drain its battery after a month or two.

 

[kman]

Would a solar trickle charger like this work?

http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50022-Battery-Trickle-Charger/dp/B0006JO0TC

I've seen people using them on boats and RVs

 

[whatluck]

A trickle charger will also help keep your battery conditioned.

 

[garandman]

It sounds like you need a float charger for your boat battery. Plug it in to shore power and it will keep the battery charged while the bilge pump cycles./

Plug not found. It's on a mooring.

Would a solar trickle charger like this work?

http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-50022-Battery-Trickle-Charger/dp/B0006JO0TC

I've seen people using them on boats and RVs

They do work - really well, in fact, and you've prompted me to get one as well. I know a guy who is an airline pilot and uses one for his car as well.

But not if you've already killed the batteries....

 

[OPM]

I have this (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...=BatteryAccessories&sName=Portable Powermv=rr). I get to use it 2-3 times per year. I did use it at camp once. It has enough juice to run a light, but not enough to run small immersion water heater. It will charge a cell phone and is ok for few other things, but do not expect much and you’ll be happy.

 

[kato617]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Schumacher-SpeedCharge-Battery-Maintainer-and-Charger/13005742

I used had one of these for years. They work very well for the price. This keep your battery charged all winter long.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mudfish]

I have this (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_02871988000P?vName=Automotive&cName=BatteryAccessories&sName=Portable%20Powermv=rr). I get to use it 2-3 times per year. I did use it at camp once. It has enough juice to run a light, but not enough to run small immersion water heater. It will charge a cell phone and is ok for few other things, but do not expect much and you’ll be happy.

I have that same one. Bought it last year when the batteries on my boat were failing late in the year and I didn't want to buy new ones until this year. Had no problem starting twin 150HP outboards. I have also jump started a couple cars for friends, and a buddy cranked the diesel on his sailboat recently. I use the air pump (slow but effective) fairly often. Never tried the inverter.

 

[MRE]

Plug not found. It's on a mooring.

In that case, I like the solar charger idea.

Assuming that you are needing to start an engine (sail boat?) with the battery that is going dead, (and thus asking about jump packs), you could get a deep cycle battery for the bilge pump and leave the other battery only for starting the engine. You would want some kind of switch as well, to allow the engine to charge the deep cycle battery as well when it is running.

 

[garandman]

The boat (that's our sailboat on the mooring but I'm referring to a 21 foot powerboat we have) has two deep cycle batteries already. I'm not really concerned with getting it started, any of them will do that.

Bought a Harbor Freight one with a coupon for $80 because it was in stock and we'll see how it works out. It has 12V plugs and USB on the front and an inverter with two AC plugs on the back and I wanted to see how useful that would be. Don't think I'll use the air pump much - we have a bicycle pump and a foot pump that both work well.

 

[kman]

I have this (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...=BatteryAccessories&sName=Portable Powermv=rr). I get to use it 2-3 times per year. I did use it at camp once. It has enough juice to run a light, but not enough to run small immersion water heater. It will charge a cell phone and is ok for few other things, but do not expect much and you’ll be happy.

I remember looking into one of these devices last year (The Black and Decker Electromate actually) and when I read through the reviews on amazon, some people seemed to complain that there is a fair bit of maintenance in regards to the battery charging. Some were saying that if you let it discharge all the way, it might never hold a charge again and had to throw it away. They went onto say that you should make sure to recharge it every 4 weeks. Any idea if that is true?

 

[ShadeWPI]

Garandeman,

I bought a jump-starter for my wife when she was going to drive back to visit her parents in Michigan without me. I bought her a pretty high end one that has: Lead-Acid battery jump-starter, Compressor, USB 5V 1A power port, Autoplug (ciggerate lighter) 12V 15A power port and 2 AC ports on a 200W inverter. It big and a little heavy, but it works well. On a car with a dead battery with no starter problems, you get 2 or 3 starts on a full charge or refil a totally flat tire (haven't tried more than 1). The inverter is a convience thing - the ability to plug in non-automotive devices, but only small devices.

If looking at jump packs with inverters, make sure it has a switch to turn the inverter off because idling inverters burn a lot of power doing nothing. Also, like your car (or boat) battery, lead acid batteries in jump-starters have the longest life when they're stored fully charged. Recharge it often.

Some were saying that if you let it discharge all the way, it might never hold a charge again and had to throw it away. They went onto say that you should make sure to recharge it every 4 weeks. Any idea if that is true?

That's an unfortunate property of a lead-acid battery. they're great battery technologies, but if you allow them to fully drain, they build up a scale on the lead plates that will drastically reduce their capacity and increase their internal impedance (voltage drop under load). The only way to fix it is to drain the acid, pull the lead plates and scrap off the scaling. Something that's not easily accomplished, especially with todays sealed lead-acid and Absorbed Glass Mat batteries.

 

[garandman]

/
That's an unfortunate property of a lead-acid battery. they're great battery technologies, but if you allow them to fully drain, they build up a scale on the lead plates that will drastically reduce their capacity and increase their internal impedance (voltage drop under load). The only way to fix it is to drain the acid, pull the lead plates and scrap off the scaling. Something that's not easily accomplished, especially with todays sealed lead-acid and Absorbed Glass Mat batteries.

There are chargers that claim they have "anti-sulfation" modes to reverse this, never tried them. The directions say to top off the charge monthly. Perhaps I can adapt one of the battery tender products to do it automatically - we use those for motorcycle batteries and the starter battery for a Honda generator.

The HF model has an external charger (not so handy) for DC or AC (which is handy). Some others have the charger internal.

Manual said to charge it 48 hours. We're taking it out to the boat tomorrow so that will be the first test. The manual says it will run something like a laptop for 1.5 hours, but realistically I expect to use the USB and 12V plugs a lot more often than AC output.

A buddy who does a lot of hiking keeps one in his car as a backup in case his car battery won't start it and there's no one around [usually the case] to jump start it. I'm going to find out what brand/model he has as it's been used a dozen times between him and others with good success.

I originally set out to buy the Schumaker 750 that WalMart said they stocked. Went to three different stores where it was supposed to be in stock, no dice, and bought the HF. Had occasion to stop by the Wally World in Salem, NH and they had it in stock.

This is the one I bought. Had a 20% off coupon but bought the two year extended warranty as the failure rate of these units seems to be very high.

 

[OPM]

I remember looking into one of these devices last year (The Black and Decker Electromate actually) and when I read through the reviews on amazon, some people seemed to complain that there is a fair bit of maintenance in regards to the battery charging. Some were saying that if you let it discharge all the way, it might never hold a charge again and had to throw it away. They went onto say that you should make sure to recharge it every 4 weeks. Any idea if that is true?

Not sure about other brands or models, but I recharge mine every 4-6 months. Mostly after each time I use it. My model shows battery level in % terms. After 6 months of storage it’s 96-98% full. I bought it about 4 years ago and so far so good. If other brands require monthly recharge – thank God I bought this one.

 

[appraiser]

Most of those units have a motorcycle battery in them with a small charger.

 

[garandman]

Not sure about other brands or models, but I recharge mine every 4-6 months. Mostly after each time I use it. My model shows battery level in % terms. After 6 months of storage it’s 96-98% full. I bought it about 4 years ago and so far so good. If other brands require monthly recharge – thank God I bought this one.

All lead acid batteries have an internal rate of discharge - AGM batts lower than SLA. And there are huge variations in how folks store them. Lead acid batteries last longed when stored fully charged.

FWIW the manual for your unit says "This product has a sealed lead acid battery that should be kept fully charged. Charge before first use; and recharge immediately after each use, and every 60 days if not used." Also FWIW one fellow who has both the B&D and a Xantrex XPower Powerpack 600HD says "For the money I'm not super-impressed with this unit. I just bought the Xantrex PowerPack 600 on sale from Amazon for $100 delivered. The 600 has a more powerful battery and can run larger appliances longer than the B&D. It usually goes for $130 but even at that price it's worth the premium over the B&D."

These things aren't magic. If I hadn't just bought it I'd tear it open and see what the battery is - as Glckaholic says most of the are 12-20 Ah SLA motorcycle batteries. The LifePO4 battery pack on my electric bike has higher capacity, weighs half as much for the output, and has a life cycle of over 1,000 charges. SLA batteries usually have a lifecycle of around 200 charges, depending how deep you pull them.

The highest rated unit on Amazon is the $130 "Clore Automotive JNC660 Jump-N-Carry 1,700 Peak Amp 12-Volt Jump Starter" with 146 5 star reviews, 25 4 star reviews, and a total of 7 lower reviews.

While some have a 12 VDC charger as well, most of these units don't seem to have a maintenance charger so you can just leave it plugged in.

 

[garandman]

Passed the first test. The batteries were quite flat and the engine (200hp Yamaha fuel injected 2 stroke V6) would just barely turn over. After 8 minutes hooked up to the booster, it cranked for an extended period to get the engine started. The engine had not been run since July 25th, or 25 days.

I found out why the AC inverter output is so limited on these units: they require a cooling fan that saps output. So I'm thinking that AC output isn't worth the tradeoffs. I don't really find much use for the air pump, either. So my feature priorities are:

Starting power for up to gas V8.
36" jumper cables - HF has this and that's a good length.
4ga jumpers
AGM battery for low internal discharge
Internal AC and 12VDC chargers
Maintenance charger so it can be kept plugged in all the time without overcharging. Might be able to do this with a Battery Tender Junior.
At least one and preferably two 12V DC plugs (cigarette lighter plugs)
Meter to give battery status
LED light

Still experimenting with the HF, charging my laptop with the inverter now to see how will it works, then going to try the battery tender charger.

I'm still looking into solar chargers - looks like 10w or less don't need a controller and are thus much less expensive.

 

[garandman]

Test 2. The manual says it wiil power a laptop for 1 1/2 hours. I ran the battery down on mine, flicked on the worklight, hooked up the laptop charger to the AC plug, and cycled the compressor a few times. It charged the laptop and ran for 2:15 before I disconnected it. So it's performing better than spec.

For what I want the Clure Jump & Carry JNC660 seems to be the ticket.
- Clure designs [AGM] batteries specially for the application.
- Only requires charging every three months and can be left plugged in full-time.
- 46" 4GA cables.
- Replaceable battery
- One year warranty and comes with a one-time, fixed cost replacement.
- Made in USA.

 

[garandman]

Test #3. Car picked up a screw and tire was almost flat. Plugged in the compressor and it pumped it from 0-30psi in five minutes.

Only problem is that the unit then shut down and even after about 20 minutes wouldn't charge it any further. Returned it and ordered the Clore as I didn't find the compressor or AC output to be particularly useful.

 

[garandman]

Received the Clore JNC660 [Jump & Carry] unit today. It's a bit heavier, flatter, and taller and can be stored in any position. It doesn't have any of the bells and whistles of the HF unit: just the cables, one 12V jack, a meter, three LED's, and a button to activate the meter. There are no switches to turn the cable feed on or off, no polarity checks, and it doesn't even come with a cable: the charger is internal and you plug it in with an extension cord. It does come with a 12V to 12V caorble.

This is really almost a "Prosumer" model as folks have started as many as 10 cars without a recharge. I like the fact that it can be kept plugged into a wall full time (it has an intelligent charger - the earlier models without the LED's do not) or only requires a maintenance charge every three months. Some folks have owned these for years and they seem to hold up a lot better than the sub-$100 models without being too expensive or heavy.

Received it last night so I'll charge it fully and then it will probably have a real world test this afternoon on the boat again.

 

[garandman]

Since perhaps there are some 12VDC wizards on here.

I got a 8W solar panel and diode from altE. I need to wire it up, so I'm going to hook up about three foot leads and alligator clips to go directly to the battery. I'll use marine-grade wire, I've got some shrink wrap tubing and dielectric grease for all the connections, and I'm going to protect the aluminum frames.

But what gauge wire should I use.?

 

[Chet0729]

We have been through several of these at the garage I work at part time. They are like everything else, you get what you pay for. The Harbor Freight ones are junk, don't waste your money. We bought one for $ 189 from Napa 3 years ago and it is still going strong. It is always on the charger when not in use. The longest we have gotten out of any of the other ones is a few months. I believe it has to do with the poor charging control and the sub par batteries that go into them.
I believe the one from NAPA also has an easily replaceable battery pack.
Most people are buying these to keep in the car for an emergency, you want it to work when you need it !!

 

[garandman]

S/
But what gauge wire should I use.?

This is what I was looking for.

http://www.offroaders.com/tech/12-volt-wire-gauge-amps.htm

18 Ga - output is only about .5A.

We have been through several of these at the garage I work at part time. They are like everything else, you get what you pay for. The Harbor Freight ones are junk, don't waste your money. We bought one for $ 189 from Napa 3 years ago and it is still going strong./

It appears from the part numbers they are the ProSeries made by Schumaker.