Kahr 9 MM,

[dixidawg]

It is for me. If I'm going to carry a gun in a belt holster, I carry a bigger gun than my PM9.



I pocket carry mine all the time. I'm not a big guy - 5' 9", 180 lbs. The issue isn't your size; it's your skinny jeans

^This^

I find the PM9 to be perfect for pocket carry. Either front right pants pocket or inside vest pocket. On days I decide I don't want to pocket carry, I go with something bigger on my waist.

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

Don't forget to consider the P9.

Its the same as the PM9 with a bit more grip and slide length. Which translates into one extra round and a much nicer shooting gun.

I never understood why everyone only talks about the PM9. Unless you pocket carry it, its vastly inferior to the P9.

Don

p.s. I owned and carried Kahrs for close to 20 years. Starting with the K9, then moving onto the K9 Elite, K9 Wilson Combat, P9, P9 Covert, PM9, then back to the P9 when I realized the PM9 was inferior to it.

I've since sold my last 9mm Kahr and replaced it with a G43. I've been shooting Glocks competitively since 1998 and like the idea of my carry gun having the same short, distinct reset as my G34.

I still own the Kahr P380. I think its the best combination of small size and shootability out there. The G42 shoots better but is too large to be an "always" gun.

I have a K9 Elite as well as the PM9. The K9 is a better gun to shoot, but a bit difficult to pocket carry.

 

[M1911]

I have a K9 Elite as well as the PM9. The K9 is a better gun to shoot, but a bit difficult to pocket carry.

I have a K9 as well. It is a much better gun to shoot than the PM9. But there is absolutely no way I could carry the K9 in a pocket -- it is too big and too heavy. I have an MK9 as well, and while that is the same size as my PM9, it is just too heavy for me to pocket carry. The MK9 stays in the safe.

 

[dcmdon]

Don,

Yes for pocket carry. Want an alternative to my P238. Being the P380/CW380 are not compliant, nor is the CM9, it would have to be the PM9, size wise.

You can buy non-compliant guns. You just pay more for them. But you get your money back when you sell it.

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The PM9 isn't just a pocket gun, it really depends on your body type/size and the clothing you wear. I personally find the PM9 to be way too big for pocket carry, but I'm not a large guy and I don't wear loose clothing. I carry mine appendix and can carry it all day long in comfort. I find the P9 to be too large for appendix carry.

I'd love to own a p380 and its on my list for future purchase, but too many other things eating my budget at the moment.

I hadn't thought of that. PM9 makes sense for appendix carry. Most of the PM9s I see are in IWB holsters. Where the P9 would be nearly indistinguishable while carrying.

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If she has trouble with full size 9mm pistols then the PM9 is likely a no-go for her.

Why are you interested in a PM9 for her? Unless she is going to carry it in a pocket, there are likely better guns for her.

Agreed. The PM9 and P9, both have fairly stiff recoil springs. You can compensate for less upper body strength with technique. A good overhand grip with the gun held far out in front using the large muscles of the chest in the strong hand to push forward and the large muscles of the back to pull back with the weak hand, can get it done. But you have to do it right. I was able to teach my wife to do this. But even then she could not lock the slide back, which is pretty necessary for clearing any malfunctions.

She shoots a G34 in a couple of steel shoots every year and has no trouble with that.

I'm not a big fan of the Sig 238 and 938 because I don't think most people practic eproperly with them. However it is amazing how soft their recoil springs are.

 

[BigAl23]

Thanks for all the offers and information. You guys are great. Am close enough to Dakar652, so I'll meet up with Mike.

 

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

The PM9 isn't just a pocket gun, it really depends on your body type/size and the clothing you wear. I personally find the PM9 to be way too big for pocket carry, but I'm not a large guy and I don't wear loose clothing. I carry mine appendix and can carry it all day long in comfort. I find the P9 to be too large for appendix carry.

I'd love to own a p380 and its on my list for future purchase, but too many other things eating my budget at the moment.

I carry my K9 in an appendix holster, with an untucked shirt, but that is about as big a gun as I can carry that way.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

First, I am glad someone kindly hooked up BigAl23 with an opportunity to try their Kahr, it shows great community spirit -- I hope it did not seem like I was hijacking his thread.

If she has trouble with full size 9mm pistols then the PM9 is likely a no-go for her.

Her hands are too small to confidently grip full size pistols or work the slides. The Ruger LC9S actually looks big in her hands, however she can deal with the felt recoil of firing that pistol pretty well despite its comparative low mass to full size 9mm pistols. Her problem lays with physically countering the recoil spring to manipulate the slide, as to chamber a round or even more so to lock the breech open. I tell her it is just a matter of practiced technique and some strength training but she is frustrated with the inability -- which is understandable as we all want to do well at a thing we attempt, particularly if it is something new and a little intimidating to begin with.

Why are you interested in a PM9 for her? Unless she is going to carry it in a pocket, there are likely better guns for her.

Just as an option for her to check out in a small striker fire pistol. Her practice so far has been with the SR-22 DA/SA and the P238 SA. And if she wanted to stick with the P238 as an EDC I think it is a good choice, but a striker gun does add a layer of simplicity. Also the MA version of the PM9 would give her the addition of a manual safety if she wanted to use it (and train with it).

I value the input and am open to any suggestions, thanks

 

[dcmdon]

She would be better served by the P9 than the PM9.

1) Longer grip that she could get her whole hand around.
2) Longer slide = less recoil.

Again, I don't understand why everyone defaults to the PM9 rather than the P9.

Unless you pocket carry or (I just learned) appendix carry, they are indistinguishable when carrying.

Re her hand size - I think the term you are looking for is a double stack 9mm. Like a Glock or any duty sized gun.
Even then, take a look at the HK VP9. With the small grip pannels in place, its hardly bigger than a magazine. Very very small.

The VP9 also has "wings" that makes it much easier to grip the slide.

Don

 

[Kahrmine]

I've owned a couple Kahrs the last few years (a PM9 and a CM9). If you're going to buy one, be sure to dry fire the trigger to make sure it isn't too heavy overall or have to heavy a break. The PM9 I owned was an older one, and it had one of the sweetest triggers. The CM9 I had was terrible. I polished that thing inside and out to get it better, and I discovered a wart on one of the trigger parts. They don't use machined parts, but formed parts on the inside, and they've upped their stock trigger weight the last few years to appease gun grabbers.

Test the trigger before you buy.

Also, if the Beretta Nano is available you may want to check that out. It's about the same size as the Kahr and are flawless guns if you run 124 grain or heavier bullets (it was designed around the .40 caliber platform).

 

[92G]

She would be better served by the P9 than the PM9.

1) Longer grip that she could get her whole hand around.
2) Longer slide = less recoil.

Again, I don't understand why everyone defaults to the PM9 rather than the P9.

Unless you pocket carry or (I just learned) appendix carry, they are indistinguishable when carrying.

Re her hand size - I think the term you are looking for is a double stack 9mm. Like a Glock or any duty sized gun.
Even then, take a look at the HK VP9. With the small grip pannels in place, its hardly bigger than a magazine. Very very small.

The VP9 also has "wings" that makes it much easier to grip the slide.

Don

My wife shoots the P9 like an animal. It fits her perfectly.

The P9 also has a single recoil spring which makes slide racking a bit easier.

 

[MarkT]

I carry my K9 in an appendix holster, with an untucked shirt, but that is about as big a gun as I can carry that way.

I had a K9, but found it too heavy to carry that way. I ended up trading that gun, but it was one of my all time favorites to shoot. It had cocobolo hand grips and felt great to hold. Wish I still had it.

 

[M1911]

Her hands are too small to confidently grip full size pistols or work the slides.

The issue you are running into in terms of size is the grip circumference, not grip length. Don't confuse the two. The problem is really double stack versus single stack, not long versus short grip. She will have more problems with a gun with a short grip (PM9) than a gun with a longer grip (P9 or K9).

The short grip guns like a PM9 and MK9 only allow you to get two fingers onto the grip -- your pinky dangles. This makes the gun more difficult to control, particularly for people with weaker hands. She will likely have a much easier time with a gun that she can fit all of her fingers onto the grip.

Furthermore, the recoil spring on the PM9 and MK9 is significantly stiffer than the recoil spring on larger guns like a P9 and K9 -- since the slide on the shorter gun is lighter, in order to control the slide speed they must have a stiffer recoil spring.

Her problem lays with physically countering the recoil spring to manipulate the slide, as to chamber a round or even more so to lock the breech open. I tell her it is just a matter of practiced technique and some strength training but she is frustrated with the inability -- which is understandable as we all want to do well at a thing we attempt, particularly if it is something new and a little intimidating to begin with.

She simply won't be able to lock open a Kahr PM9. She won't have the strength. A P9 or K9 will be a little easier, but still hard for her.

Also the MA version of the PM9 would give her the addition of a manual safety if she wanted to use it (and train with it).

You really don't want this. Seriously. The manual safety on the PM9 is small and hard to operate under stress. It is only there for compliance with the AG's regulations.

I own four Kahrs, including the PM9, MK9, K9, and K40. If you and your wife would like to try them, you could meet me at Harvard Sportsmen's. I will tell you up front that, in my opinion, the PM9 and MK9 probably won't work for her. The point of the PM9 and MK9 are to make the gun as small as possible so it will fit in a pocket. As a result of that smaller size, you have a gun with a stiffer recoil spring, and a shorter grip that is harder to hold. Unless you are going to carry it in a pocket, then it really doesn't make sense to make those compromises.

The P9 or K9 would be a better choice, but she may still have trouble dealing with the slide.

 

[dcmdon]

+100

By the way. I'm also a Harvard member. I'd be happy to bring by my Kahr P380 as well as Glock 42 and 43 for her to use.

I don't know how much of a shooter she is, but I've found the G42 to be universally loved by non-shooter women.

I just gave a private lesson to a couple about 3 weeks ago. She ripped it up with the .22, but was intimidated by the recoil of a G17. She shot the G42 better than any other centerfire handgun she tried that day other than my custom 686 shooting my wadcutter powder puff loads single action)

The G42 is big enough to get a good grip on in an acceptable defensive caliber and much lighter recoiling than anything 9mm. Remember recoil is important. Its not about being able to "take it". Its about sending lead down range FAST with acceptable accuracy. And most non-shooter people, women included, shoot the 42 with a pinky extension better than any 9mm I can offer them.

I am more accurate at defensive rates of fire with my G42 than any other centerfire handgun I own short of my Dan Wesson 9mm 1911 and my G34.

Don

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

Let me round two shout outs into one reply by sending my thanks to both M1911 and dcmdon for their valued opinion and the generous offers.

All sound advice and taking as fact M1911's opinion on the inappropriateness of the PM9 kind of has me setting aside the question of size and focusing on the recoil spring (working the slide), and so now I'm researching the Glock 42 that Don suggested.

Again, thanks guys.

 

[dcmdon]

Its a reasonable choice. The recoil spring on the 42 is MUCH lighter than the recoil spring on the smaller Kahr's.

Skateboard tape never hurts also.

 

[Terminator03]

This a great thread, but no one seemed to touch on a technique that seems to work well for woman, or even men who have trouble with strong recoil springs when racking. Instead of having them try to pull the slide back on these small, strongly sprung guns, it is better to have them hold the slide with a firm over the slide grip and PUSH the frame away from them. This creates more mechanical advantage and can help a lot with smaller, harder to rack guns. All other advice has been spot on inmo regarding the types of guns being discussed, so I thought I would put this out there for general info in case someone following this thread didn't know about this technique.

 

[M1911]

Actually, I have worked to teach my wife that exact technique. But she still can't handle the recoil spring on a PM9, even with that technique. She simply doesn't have the hand and arm strength required to do so.

Things that are very easy for us may be difficult or impossible for others.