Keyholing - Winchester Q3131

Viper22

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Had some range time with my AR today and got to run a few different kinds of 5.56 through it. ZQ1 (62gr, STANAG 4172), PMC X-Tac (55gr, XP-193), WWB (55gr, Q3131). The ZQ1 and PMC ran great, and to my surprise, the PMC showed good accuracy. I had multiple issues with the Winchester white box. Biggest issue was keyholing at 50 yards. Accuracy was terrible, and I also had a case split at the neck. It got so bad between the keyholing and just bad accuracy, the groups were about 12". Switch to either the ZQ1 or PMC, and 50 yard groups were about 2" with irons (rested).


This is out of a 14.5" barrel with a Rainier XTC pinned & welded. 1/7 twist, 5.56 chamber.

Has anyone else experienced a barrel not liking a particular brand of ammo? Or general craptastic performance of WWB?
 

mac1911

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yes, I have always had decent function and accuracy from PMC, ZQI have not tried yet.
As far as WWB well its either just ok or it sucks in my experience. Not just 223.

bullet design can have effect also.... FMJ BT, flat base ?
 
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Yes as well, twist rate of barrel has a lot to do with stabilizing the bullet, could be as simple as the 1/7 doesn't stabilize the bullet at the speed the crap ammo is putting out. Although I would expect to see that more with a 1/9 but possible none the less as compared to the other ammo your testing with. WWB is pretty low end stuff and to tell the truth I have always stayed away from it myself..
 

Viper22

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Barrel is from MAS Defense. Marked R 5.56 1/7.


EDIT - Barrel marked R 5.56 NATO 1/7
 
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mac1911

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Any of the Q3131 left? Pull a bullet weight and measure it.
Who is manufacturing ammo now for Winchester?
 
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Viper22

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Burned it all up last range outing. Didn't want any taking up space in the safe.

Bullet did look shorter in comparison to the PMC X-Tac. Both unfired rounds side by side.
 

drgrant

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Barrel is from MAS Defense. Marked R 5.56 1/7.

Normally I would say "skinflint barrel = skinflint results" but if everything else runs fine in it... it's probably the ammo.

I haven't seen Q3131 anything in years. I used to shoot tons of Q3131A through my Colt but then the supply of that stuff dried up.

-Mike
 

mac1911

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Normally I would say "skinflint barrel = skinflint results" but if everything else runs fine in it... it's probably the ammo.

I haven't seen Q3131 anything in years. I used to shoot tons of Q3131A through my Colt but then the supply of that stuff dried up.

-Mike

Do we have any idea who manufactures their barrels ?
Good thing you used it all up
As for accuracy with M193/M855 well that is defined by what you think accuracy is, I dont mind it for general plinking although I dont shoot it in a 1/7 twist. My cheap reloads with hornady 55gn fmj's do better than any factory 193 stuff I have tried. to Date the PPU M193 is the most "accurate" and consistent over the crony I have shot out of my base A2 and my heavy match barreled "varmint" gun. Getting snug 1.75-2" groups at 100 yards. I hover around the 1" mark with the Hornady FMJs
 
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Viper22

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I searched around and couldn't dig up any info on who manufactures their barrels. A lot of good reviews out there though. Seems MAS is more known for their SBR barrels.
 

mac1911

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I would not be surprised if they are green mountain or even FN.
Matters not really seems more like you might have got some of the 3131 that was going around back in the late 90s. If you search around the AR sights they have a lot number list of some of the bad stuff.

I don't expect much from a 3 piece bullet design like the ss109 little piece of steel with a touch of lead wrapped in a jacket. These bullets are only cheap because of the military. If manufactures like hornady or nosler made a "accurate" steel core bullet I don't think they would be cheap.
 

Viper22

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Looking at the cases, there were a few that had split necks.

I picked up some .223 loaded with 69 grain Sierra HPBT's. I'll see how the barrel likes the heavier stuff. Might get some 77 gr as well.

Got a Bushnell 1-4x coming tomorrow, so its a good excuse to get to the range and try everything out.
 
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