Legality of NFA Firerms in Mass

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Sometime in the future I may look into purchasing an NFA weapon. So as much as I searched I couldn't find a clear cut answer to my following questions...

1) Are NFA firearms technically legal in MA? Does the AWB cover these?
2) Is a LTC A sufficient or is there another license required? (MG, C&R)
3) If I were to purchase online, would the tax stamp price be included or would I have to do that at the local FFL?
4) Are most local (Mass) FFL's fine with dealing with NFA guns?

As an example, here are a couple I found interesting:

http://www.impactguns.com/benelli-m4-entrycqb-14in-3-position-stock-ghost-ring-sight-11724.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/serbu-super-shorty-rem-870-9in-12ga-ser-rem870sbs.aspx


My thought with the short shotguns (or rifles) is it would be easily concealable if I decided to get into the Executive Protection field. And if this is the case, is there any regulation allowing or prohibiting Less than Lethal rounds if that was the desired effect?

Could someone be sued if they used LTL rounds on a person that posed a "minor" threat? Example: A protester had a baseball bat in their hand, was advancing but was just outside swinging range so I warned several times, then put a bean bag round in his leg (or near his own bean bag)?
 
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There is an NFA forum here that covers almost all of the NFA questions. I'd go there as a first start. But to transfer NFA firearms you'll need to go through a dealer with an SOT stamp for class3 transfers, not just any FFL.

As for Less than Lethal rounds, no such thing. Supposedly "Less than Lethal" options are still lethal force in a legal sense, and you'll face no less scrutiny for using them than old fashion lethal force. And forget about putting a round in their leg - if it ever comes to such a situation, you're not going to have time to aim for a leg or other small target. If it's bad enough to make lethal force an option, aim for center of mass until the threat stops.
 

gerrycaruso

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NFA firearms are legal in Ma but you can't have a suppressor if you're not a dealer. If you want a machinegun,you need to get a machinegun license.The tax is paid to the ATF and is not part of the purchase price. There are a few class 3 dealers here. If you get your C&R license and you buy a C&R gun, it can ship right to you without going through a dealer.
 
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1) Are NFA firearms technically legal in MA? Does the AWB cover these?
2) Is a LTC A sufficient or is there another license required? (MG, C&R)
3) If I were to purchase online, would the tax stamp price be included or would I have to do that at the local FFL?
4) Are most local (Mass) FFL's fine with dealing with NFA guns?

As an example, here are a couple I found interesting:

http://www.impactguns.com/benelli-m4-entrycqb-14in-3-position-stock-ghost-ring-sight-11724.aspx

http://www.impactguns.com/serbu-super-shorty-rem-870-9in-12ga-ser-rem870sbs.aspx

Those are SBS and you'll need to pay for a NFA Tax Stamp. Perfectly legal in MA with a MA-MG License.

To answer your questions,
1. Yes they are legal. Not that I know of.
2. You'll need to get a MA-MG License. Sometimes refered to as a Green Card but they now look like a LTC but with a green stripe.
3. If you purchase one in MA, you can transfer directly from the person/dealer. If you purchase online or from out of state, you'll most likely have to pay extra transfer taxes/fees because a NFA-Dealer in the state in which the SBS is located will have to transfer it to a NFA-Dealer in MA before the paperwork to transfer it to you is started. Be advised that transfers of NFA Items to private persons are taking 5-6 months.
4. Most MA Dealers do not have/want anything to do with NFA items. You have Two here, One-Eyed-Jack and myself.

Go read the link that Gman as it has plenty of info for you.

 

seanc

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I was under the impression that the Serbu is a no go in mass as it's NOT a factory built AOW.
As he uses rem and moss receivers they did not qualify as mass legal.

Has this changed?
 

Rob Boudrie

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As for Less than Lethal rounds, no such thing. Supposedly "Less than Lethal" options are still lethal force in a legal sense, and you'll face no less scrutiny for using them than old fashion lethal force. And forget about putting a round in their leg - if it ever comes to such a situation, you're not going to have time to aim for a leg or other small target. If it's bad enough to make lethal force an option, aim for center of mass until the threat stops.

1. The term is "Less lethal", not "Less than lethal". There is a reason for this.

2. Admit you shot to wound and you have just testified that you concluded the situation did not call for lethal force and then decided to use lethan force anyway.

I was under the impression that the Serbu is a no go in mass as it's NOT a factory built AOW.

The Serbu Super Shorty is a factory build AOW because he uses receiver that have never been made into a long gun, and is thus built as an AOW rather than a sawed off shotgun. Building an AOW from a commercial receiver does not make it a sawed-off; it actually has to have a barrel and be shortened to meet that criteria.

The problem is that the Serbu Super Shorty meets the MA definition of "firearm" and, as such, must be on the lab tested of EOPS list and is subject to the AG consumer protection CMRs. I asked Mark Serbu if he would be willing to drop 5 of them on concrete to get them the MA list and he laughed at me.

I suppose one could get a Super Shorty legally by either moving into MA or bequest, but there is chance the local BATFE office would kick back the change of registration address thinking it was illegal in MA, rather than just subject to the transfer restrictions.

 
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Those are SBS and you'll need to pay for a NFA Tax Stamp. Perfectly legal in MA with a MA-MG License.

To answer your questions,
1. Yes they are legal. Not that I know of.
2. You'll need to get a MA-MG License. Sometimes refered to as a Green Card but they now look like a LTC but with a green stripe.
3. If you purchase one in MA, you can transfer directly from the person/dealer. If you purchase online or from out of state, you'll most likely have to pay extra transfer taxes/fees because a NFA-Dealer in the state in which the SBS is located will have to transfer it to a NFA-Dealer in MA before the paperwork to transfer it to you is started. Be advised that transfers of NFA Items to private persons are taking 5-6 months.
4. Most MA Dealers do not have/want anything to do with NFA items. You have Two here, One-Eyed-Jack and myself.

Go read the link that Gman as it has plenty of info for you.

I thought you only needed the MG license for what we commonly call machine guns, but not for an SBS or SBR.

It is quite possible I am misreading what you wrote, or I am somehow confused.....
 
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I thought the same thing, as I have been looking into getting a SBR recently. This would change my plans.

You don't need a MG license for anything other than a MG in MA. That doesn't mean that someone at BATF who doesn't understand MA law won't ask ...

- - - Updated - - -



The problem is that the Serbu Super Shorty meets the MA definition of "firearm" and, as such, must be on the lab tested of EOPS list and is subject to the AG consumer protection CMRs. I asked Mark Serbu if he would be willing to drop 5 of them on concrete to get them the MA list and he laughed at me.


Does that mean that if you DID own one of these legally in MA, it's legal to carry with an LTC-A?
 

seanc

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Does that mean that if you DID own one of these legally in MA, it's legal to carry with an LTC-A?

I have been told by a number of reliable sources that AOW's are (in mass) considered smooth bore pistols. So, technically, YES you could CC one.

However, it's REALLY stupid to do. Kiss any future sign offs as well as your LTC good bye on suitability grounds forever.
And expect to see your face on the news and reports all over your front porch for months.

Look what they did yesterday with a non firearm flare gun in a trunk yesterday..
 

seanc

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The Serbu Super Shorty is a factory build AOW because he uses received that have never been made into a long gun, and is thus built as an AOW rather than a sawed off shotgun. Building an AOW from a commercial receiver does not make it a sawed-off; it actually has to have a barrel and be shortened to meet that criteria.

The problem is that the Serbu Super Shorty meets the MA definition of "firearm" and, as such, must be on the lab tested of EOPS list and is subject to the AG consumer protection CMRs. I asked Mark Serbu if he would be willing to drop 5 of them on concrete to get them the MA list and he laughed at me.

I suppose one could get a Super Shorty legally by either moving into MA or bequest, but there is chance the local BATFE office would kick back the change of registration address thinking it was illegal in MA, rather than just subject to the transfer restrictions.



Fro the NFA faq:

SBS
The key words here are "alteration, modification or otherwise" and "as modified". If you are interested in buying a factory made and registered short barrel shotgun, it will not have been made by alteration, modification or otherwise. You can not file a Form 1 to make your own short barrel shotgun in MA, nor can you possess a short barreled shotgun made by an aftermarket company.


AOW
Certain short barrel shotguns (without a stock): Due to the way the NFA define AOWs, if a shotgun is made with a barrel or barrels less then 18 inches and has never had a stock, it is an AOW (smooth bore pistol). The same rules about "sawed-off" shotguns come into play as if the gun in question was a SBS.

This was my understanding (as well as Mark's when I begged for him to sell me one through a class iii dealer). He, I and the dealer at the time believed that unless he were to make his own receivers that his guns are not mass ok.

On the flip side.. I also asked if I were to buy a MA reg Rem or Moss 500 AOW/sbs, if he would "Serbu-fy" it.. he said no.
 
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I have been told by a number of reliable sources that AOW's are (in mass) considered smooth bore pistols. So, technically, YES you could CC one.

However, it's REALLY stupid to do. Kiss any future sign offs as well as your LTC good bye on suitability grounds forever.
And expect to see your face on the news and reports all over your front porch for months.

Look what they did yesterday with a non firearm flare gun in a trunk yesterday..

Just curious about the technical legality, not something I'd ever seriously consider doing.
 

seanc

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It's technically legal to OC in MA.

There have been years of back and forth regarding all manner of "legal uses" for NFA.. Subguns.com and machinegunnews.com boards..
Yes you could defend you home with an NFA. Yes, you can carry an AOW/ Smooth bore pistol etc..

However, the majority of consensus comes back, yes, you can do it. But regardless, you will get even more screwed in court for the use of the nfa than the act itself.
 

seanc

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I thought the same thing, as I have been looking into getting a SBR recently. This would change my plans.

I think this comes from most jurisdictions consider the green card as a catch all for any nfa goodies. Most PDs would only sign off on forms if that person had a green card. So, while NO, you do not NEED a green card to form 1/ form 4 a SBR, they will not/ would not sign off on any NFA unless you had one..

Things have/ may be changing and that may no longer be the guidelines many PDs use. YMMV..

I think the reclassifying of the Streetsweeper as well as the constant threat to reclassify other things as DD (spas12/ saiga12) may have considerably helped to soften PDs stances on NFA goodies.. And de-villify these somewhat in the eyes of the signer-offers.
 
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I think this comes from most jurisdictions consider the green card as a catch all for any nfa goodies. Most PDs would only sign off on forms if that person had a green card. So, while NO, you do not NEED a green card to form 1/ form 4 a SBR, they will not/ would not sign off on any NFA unless you had one..

Things have/ may be changing and that may no longer be the guidelines many PDs use. YMMV..


So once CLEO signature goes away for Form 1/4, then this becomes a non issue in all cities in MA, correct?
 

seanc

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So once CLEO signature goes away for Form 1/4, then this becomes a non issue in all cities in MA, correct?

You'd think (but that is federal)..

I would not be surprised if Mass puts some sort of twist on things to prevent it from being enacted here.

It's for the children you know.. And guns are scary.
 
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Rob Boudrie

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I thought you only needed the MG license for what we commonly call machine guns, but not for an SBS or SBR.

It is quite possible I am misreading what you wrote, or I am somehow confused.....

MGL 269-10c prohibits Machine guns and sawed off shotguns, "except as provided by law". I know about the provision for a MG license, but I am not aware of any provision for a sawed off shotgun license. I believe, but am not certain, that "sawed offs" are prohibited, and AOW/SBS are not subject to any specific regulation beyond the broad category (rifle, shotgun or firearm) into which the gun falls under the MGL definitions.

Furthermore, the MA "MG License" references MGs, not NFA weapons and, as such, I don't believe one is required for an AOW/SBS or SBR.

NFA is not my field of expertise, however, and I will cheerfully thank anyone who can provide a correction with specific cites to MGL (rather than simply "proof by declaration').
 
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