Lowell is still a shithole for licensing

[cathouse01]

All restricted licenses in progress with restrictions were bounced back to the PDs.

And if I read the instructions to the licensing authorities correctly, the licenses with restrictions are being sent back so that they (the licensing officer) can determine if they still want to issue the LTC given that it is going to be unrestricted.

LTCs with restrictions that are currently “pending activation by FRB” and any subsequent licenses submitted with restrictions will be sent back for review by the licensing officer to re-submit with a restriction of “none.”

Emphasis added.

 

[Coyote33]

The upstanding citizen who makes a mistake that would warrant a CWOF, or who is actually innocent and takes a CWOF to avoid the risk and expense of a trial, could find that due process in LTC issuance results in a "no deal without loss of gun rights" position on the part of the state

Wait, no loss of any other rights?

The 2A is either subject to the same protections as the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 8th (and others) or it is a right of the second class.

See above.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Wait, no loss of any other rights?



See above.

Gun rights are the first to go. For example, gun rights are the only right lost in a misdafelony case.

 

[gt_pedaler]

Yes, please keep us informed on his case. When will motion be brought before city?

There is a motion on the agenda for 7-12. I will register to speak as I'm sure a few more people will also.

 

[Coyote33]

Gun rights are the first to go. For example, gun rights are the only right lost in a misdafelony case.

Would it make sense for our side to bundle this civil/human right in with the others? Make it all or nothing? Maybe that would help somehow.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Would it make sense for our side to bundle this civil/human right in with the others? Make it all or nothing? Maybe that would help somehow.

You need a specifically legally injured party and need to bring a focused case. Going along for a ride doesn't work.

If we can get a good plaintiff the "Gun rights are not civil rights so FLRB restoration of rights aren't" case that provides a nice attack surface.

 

[Drix]

Yeah, Lowell.

Officer M over there has no idea what he's doing when it comes to licenses. One wonders how he failed into his job.

 

[Picton]

And if I read the instructions to the licensing authorities correctly, the licenses with restrictions are being sent back so that they (the licensing officer) can determine if they still want to issue the LTC given that it is going to be unrestricted.

Bruen says specifically that no one civil servant can make that determination using any level of their own judgment or discretion.

Unless the applicant is statutorily prohibited, the license must be issued.

 

[Steve6387]

I'm also a lowell resident. My first time, I Applied for unrestricted and received it in like 6 weeks or so. That said, I did jump through the hoops and had the correct supporting documents. This was during the early days of COVID but after they opened up for fingerprinting. I know the real issue was about the said hoops to jump through... but I simply don't have the time or resources to strap in for that fight.

 

[cathouse01]

Bruen says specifically that no one civil servant can make that determination using any level of their own judgment or discretion.

Unless the applicant is statutorily prohibited, the license must be issued.

Though MA has already shown that they will do the minimum possible to comply. They are already trying to say that “suitability” is not arbitrary, and therefore permissible.

 

[LTCRN]

So... I'm that Lowell guy. Originally, during the first year of Covid, Lowell was not open to accepting or processing new LTC applications. They used the necessity to fingerprint the applicant and the social distancing guidelines to close all public offices. I went through GOAL and filed a lawsuit. Suddenly the application process was opened up again. Which is when I applied.
The officer asked what kind of license that I wanted and I responded that I wanted an unrestricted LTC. He then asked for my supporting documents. I refuse to write an essay begging to be allowed to exercise my constitutional rights and told him that. He then informed me that he could not process my application without the documents. I asked for him to put it through as unrestricted without the documents. (so that maybe they would deny my application and give me further reason to go after them in court) He insisted that he could not process it without the documents, so it was sent in as "restricted". Several months later I received it in the mail.
Which leads me to the recent phone call to the Lowell PD. When I was informed that I would need to wait until my renewal to change my license to unrestricted.
Since then I have been working to have a motion brought before the city council. The motion will be for the City Manager and City Solicitor write a definitive policy regarding how the Lowell PD is going to handle mine and similar requests in the immediate future. They will try to punt it down the road, but eventually they will need to produce it in black and white. Now the City Solicitor has made several bad calls regarding policies and bylaws that were blatantly wrong I the face of MA SJC and SCOTUS rulings in the past. Then the city had to absorb the lawyer's fees when someone sued the city and won. So I will remind the council that the tax payers of the city do not need to foot the bill for another bad call by their people. Maybe I get somewhere. Maybe I piss a few of them off. Most of them are familiar and even friendly with me from years of contact regarding veteran activities in the city. Which means they also know I won't just go away.
Any info, suggestions or support will be appreciated.

You are awesome! Even though I live over 50 miles away, I would still like to attend your meeting when and if it goes forward! I'm sure I'm not the only one that would like to attend! Please keep us all in the loop when this meeting is about to occur!

 

[gt_pedaler]

A motion has been placed on the agenda for the City council meeting on 7-12.
11.8 : C. Scott/C. Yem - Req. City Mgr. work with appropriate departments to provide a legal opinion on the applicability of the NY gun law decision by the Supreme Court to the City of Lowell procedures.

 

[CATI]

A motion has been placed on the agenda for the City council meeting on 7-12.
11.8 : C. Scott/C. Yem - Req. City Mgr. work with appropriate departments to provide a legal opinion on the applicability of the NY gun law decision by the Supreme Court to the City of Lowell procedures.

Do you have a business in Lowell. Just curious why you stay
Good luck with the meeting

 

[appraiser]

trust me I was trying to convince him that moving 5.5 miles northeast would solve all his problems, except for paying MA income tax and NH property taxes

 

[gt_pedaler]

Do you have a business in Lowell. Just curious why you stay
Good luck with the meeting

So my thing is this... Yes I live in Lowell, but it is on the very edge on a dead end street. The neighborhood is great, commute is 11 miles for me and 2 miles for my wife. I benefit from an abnormally low property tax rate compared to other towns. I have all the tax free benefits of shopping in Nashua about 10 minutes away. Plus I just built a high ceiling, fully equipped garage with a lift. It's very hard to find something equivalent that doesn't have one or more negative issues. 27 years of local roots and connections too. But after a recent week out in Montana and Wyoming, I could be persuaded to move out there. That is some impressive countryside with just my type of lifestyle too.

 

[M1911]

Until some departments get their asses hauled into court by Comm2A on 1983 cases, some will refuse to abide by the USSC ruling and will persecute people carrying under a restricted LTC.

This. Anti-gun police departments are not going to change until a court specifically forces them to.

 

[M1911]

len, how can they win these cases? maybe the scotus is really a paper tiger. wondering what their function is now.

The police departments ultimately won't win. But that doesn't mean they won't try.

 

[jkelly1229]

I feel like the title couldve been abbreviated

 

[Asaltweapon]

The police departments ultimately won't win. But that doesn't mean they won't try.

Ya gotta love how they will shove the legal bills from town or city lawyers onto the taxpayers anyway. They have zero skin in the game.

 

[Mesatchornug]

A motion has been placed on the agenda for the City council meeting on 7-12.
11.8 : C. Scott/C. Yem - Req. City Mgr. work with appropriate departments to provide a legal opinion on the applicability of the NY gun law decision by the Supreme Court to the City of Lowell procedures.

Is there a time for this meeting? I'm an out of towner, but I know folks who might be interested. I might also have cause to volunteer to speak on their behalf, if I can fit it

 

[vicorjh]

Is there a time for this meeting? I'm an out of towner, but I know folks who might be interested. I might also have cause to volunteer to speak on their behalf, if I can fit it

6:30PM according to dotGov.

Agenda - 07/12/2022

11.8 is a motion.

 

[Mesatchornug]

6:30PM according to dotGov.

Agenda - 07/12/2022

11.8 is a motion.

Thanks! I should've searched [hangs head]

 

[gt_pedaler]

Is there a time for this meeting? I'm an out of towner, but I know folks who might be interested. I might also have cause to volunteer to speak on their behalf, if I can fit it

I think that you have to be a lowell resident. Not sure though.

 

[free]

I think that you have to be a lowell resident. Not sure though.

Anyone may speak.

 

[Coyote33]

Anyone may speak.

The other side usually brings in outsiders for these things, don't they?

 

[Misfitmike63]

As a former lowellian, and current employee, I get the weekly agenda to my email. I was excited to post the info about the council meeting here, but can see I’m late to the party.

The whole licensing issue in lowell is why I moved out, but I wish I had moved to NH at the time. Maybe someday

 

[gt_pedaler]

So the Lowell PD firearms licensing has changed it website:

All Forms of License to Carry (LTC) | Lowell, MA

All Forms of LTC

www.lowellma.gov

 

[Mesatchornug]

So the Lowell PD firearms licensing has changed it website:

All Forms of License to Carry (LTC) | Lowell, MA

All Forms of LTC

www.lowellma.gov

That's a confusing page. It talks about upgrades, as if to imply they still intend to restrict. Otherwise, most of that garbage would be unnecessary.

I'll likely try to come up, if only for moral support. Undecided if I'll ask to talk.

Anyone want to find a beer afterward? (Unofficial NES meetup?)

 

[milktree]

I respectfully disagree.

Until some departments get their asses hauled into court by Comm2A on 1983 cases, some will refuse to abide by the USSC ruling and will persecute people carrying under a restricted LTC.

The PDs and DAs do NOT work for the AG, they are not bound to abide by the AG's memos. I also know of one case where a DA and ADA asked to drop a case, but the PD refused and still went forward with it. The defendant claimed to have spent ~$20K before the judge dismissed the charges. Said defendant wanted to sue the judge and police officers and asked me to serve the summons and complaints (I refused) and told me the gory details.

In what circumstances do PDs prosecute? Isn’t that the job of the DA’s office?

 

[Len-2A Training]

In what circumstances do PDs prosecute? Isn’t that the job of the DA’s office?

The small South Shore towns that I'm familiar with each designate a police officer as their prosecutor and that officer does indeed prosecute cases in district court. I don't know how that interfaces with the DA's office. What I stated above came to me from a county DA (not ADA) who is a personal friend about a very specific case (which I think was discussed here in the very early years of NES).