LTC and buying dispensary marijuana (not medical)

Not really. The question is in the present tense. If you smoked weed yesterday but "quit" overnight then you can "truthfully" answer no, you are not currently a user of....

A first year law student could shred that question.


Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

So by this wouldn’t a lot people being lying on this as most people I know are addicted to coffee
 
Basically one of my GF coworkers had mention to her that if you had purchased marijuana from a dispensary then i wouldn’t be able to obtain a LTC or purchase a gun in that matter. Only reason she had mentioned something to my GF was because she was told by 3 other people that she knows that, that would be the case for herself and I was curious.
IANAL - that said, if someone used, as in past tense, marijuana, and does not have any convictions or arrests, I would see no reason why you couldn't get an LTC and LEGALLY buy a gun from an FFL. The 4473, the way I read it, asks if you are a USER, NOT if you have ever taken any of those things. And I'm not splitting hairs and saying, yeah, I haven't used since yesterday so I can answer this truthfully. After all, 70% of adults have smoked marijuana at least once or something like that.

Now, the real question is, does the background check include purchase records at dispensaries?
 
Once you give someone your ID all the information on it belongs to them and they can share it with whomever they want.

This isn’t medical information and HIPAA does not apply.

As an example, I know a guy who owns a self storage facility in eastern MA and he supplies his police dept. with a list of all his renters.
 
So I am in the process of getting my LTC, i handed in my application about a week ago and im currently waiting for the approval. Anyway, i was recently told that if I had purchased marijuana (not medical) from a dispensary, that it would be a reason for my LTC application to be denied. I was curious if this was true or if anyone could help me out. Thank you.

Hey! Welcome to NES! I like the way you jumped right end to the deep end of the pool. Ballsy move.

1. Why would you want to pay retail?
2. Everyone under 70 knows a dude
3. If you really don't know a dude, have a trusted friend or your Mom or girlfriend or something do your grocery shopping. Keep your mouth shut.
4. It cost double at the weed store. And nowadays the street stuff is high test compared to when I was young and cared.
5. You are an adult, and should make your own decisions, but in my opinion, its best to keep the guns locked up if you are under the influence.

Good luck with the LTC. I don't smoke the stuff. It makes me crazy paranoid. Shoot often and shoot safely.
 
Hey! Welcome to NES! I like the way you jumped right end to the deep end of the pool. Ballsy move.

1. Why would you want to pay TAXES?
2. Everyone under 70 knows a dude
3. If you really don't know a dude, have a trusted friend or your Mom or girlfriend or something do your grocery shopping. Keep your mouth shut.
4. It cost double at the weed store. And nowadays the street stuff is high test compared to when I was young and cared.
5. You are an adult, and should make your own decisions, but in my opinion, its best to keep the guns locked up if you are under the influence.

Good luck with the LTC. I don't smoke the stuff. It makes me crazy paranoid. Shoot often and shoot safely.

Fify
 
But back to the LTC. I'd say it wouldn't be a stretch for an issuing officer to deny you an LTC if he knew you were either a user or a buyer. Again, as noted above, MJ use makes you a prohibited person. The question would be whether or not the issuing authority actually knew you bought or not (had access to shop records, for example). In that case, the less said the better.
There a conflict, because MGL prohibits a MJ ticket from being uses as the basis of denial or revocation of any state license or benefit.
 
IANAL - that said, if someone used, as in past tense, marijuana, and does not have any convictions or arrests, I would see no reason why you couldn't get an LTC and LEGALLY buy a gun from an FFL. The 4473, the way I read it, asks if you are a USER, NOT if you have ever taken any of those things. And I'm not splitting hairs and saying, yeah, I haven't used since yesterday so I can answer this truthfully. After all, 70% of adults have smoked marijuana at least once or something like that.

Now, the real question is, does the background check include purchase records at dispensaries?

The concern I have is transfers.

Ie : once the database is actually built (data lake really), there will be some checks. I would expect one of them to compare 4473 dates with diapensorary purchases and transfers. So if you buy a rifle, and while it's proveable that you still owned that rifle while you bought MJ, and THEN went to buy a new thing and didn't click the right radio button: failban!
 
... you'd likely have to lie on a 4473.
Not really. The question is in the present tense. If you smoked weed yesterday but "quit" overnight then you can "truthfully" answer no, you are not currently a user of....

A first year law student could shred that question.
A second year law student could write regulatory definitions to solve that.
Somebody did...

(Bolding mine. Also the underscoring in the part where
possession implies use).

Department of Treasury​
Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms​
Definitions for the Categories of Persons Prohibited From Receiving Firearms (95R-051P)​
...​
Persons Who Are Unlawful Users of or Addicted to Any Controlled Substance​
As proposed in Notice No. 839, the terms ``controlled substance''​
and ``unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance'' are​
defined as follows:​
Controlled substance. A drug or other substance, or immediate​
precursor, as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances​
Act, 21 U.S.C. 802. The term includes, but is not limited to,​
marijuana, depressants, stimulants, and narcotic drugs. The term​
does not include distilled spirits, wine, malt beverages, or​
tobacco, as those terms are defined or used in Subtitle E of the​
Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.​
Unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance. A​
person who uses a controlled substance and has lost the power of​
self-control with reference to the use of the controlled​
substance; and any person who is a current user of a controlled​
substance in a manner other than as prescribed by a licensed​
physician. Such use is not limited to the use of drugs on a
particular day, or within a matter of days or weeks before, but
rather that the unlawful use has occurred recently enough to
indicate that the individual is actively engaged in such conduct.
A person may be an unlawful current user of a controlled
substance even though the substance is not being used at the
precise time the person seeks to acquire a firearm or receives or
possesses a firearm. An inference of current use may be drawn
from evidence of a recent use or possession of a controlled
substance or a pattern of use or possession that reasonably
covers the present time, e.g., a conviction for use or possession
of a controlled substance within the past year, or multiple
arrests for such offenses within the past five years if the most
recent arrest occurred within the past year.
The DOJ Office of Policy Development inquired whether the​
proposed definition includes persons found through a drug test to​
use a controlled substance unlawfully, provided the test was​
administered within the past year. In response, ATF agrees that​
this information would give rise to an inference of unlawful drug​
use. Accordingly, the final regulations are being amended to​
identify these persons in the definition as an example of​
unlawful drug user.​
DOD commented that the examples should be expanded to include​
illegal drug use as evidenced by nonjudicial or administrative​
proceedings. DOD believes that it would be helpful to add the​
following at the end of the proposed definition:​
For a current or former member of the Armed Forces, an inference​
of current use may be drawn from recent disciplinary or other​
administrative action based on confirmed drug use, e.g.,​
court-martial conviction, nonjudicial punishment, or an​
administrative discharge based on drug use or drug rehabilitation​
failure.​
ATF finds that the Defense Department's proposed language helps​
to clarify the definition with respect to the military and is​
adopting the proposed amendment into the final regulations.​
 
OP i am not saying that SWAT could raid your house,and take you to jail, but do you own a dog?
 
*Not sure if serious*. And most new CCs also track to the item information.
Nothing to do with "new CCs", unless your talking about Apple Pay or something?

Yes, some transactions require "level 3" data, which does include item level information. But those are rare. With few exceptions, most purchases only send "Level 1", - the total dollar amount, date, time, card details, and which register it was rung up on. Each store has a "merchant code" (e.g. gun stores are 5941 - "Sporting Goods Stores",), however your local pot shop is probably using an unrelated merchant code to fly under the radar. so they're hardly going to be uploading item-level transaction records detailing the THC content of your favorite strain.

Is that the case? Ive seen a lot of people say the scan only shows up and nothing is retained in a data base somewhere.
For the nitty-gritty on the ID checks at the door, see the old dumpster fire thread.
 
There a conflict, because MGL prohibits a MJ ticket from being uses as the basis of denial or revocation of any state license or benefit.
This was posted on one of the MA gun Facebook groups by a LEO.
8823F197-0862-40C6-82A8-BF4274A2FD09.jpeg
So it seems like it’s not a DQ for a LTC? I have no skin in the game but I have friends just getting their LTC who buy from dispensaries asking me what’s the risk. I told them it is still illegal federally and they’d be lying on the 4473 form etc.
 
Unless your purchase was just holding buying it for a friend as a gift.
FIFY

It probably is a trap to deny 2A rights. May want to buy borrow from a friend who grows his own rather than buying from the "system" and pay the Boston hacks a 20% tax. Starve the beast.
 
FIFY

It probably is a trap to deny 2A rights. May want to buy borrow from a friend who grows his own rather than buying from the "system" and pay the Boston hacks a 20% tax. Starve the beast.
This is what I told my friends. Avoid going to dispensaries if possible and have someone else buy it for you 😂
 
Is that the case? Ive seen a lot of people say the scan only shows up and nothing is retained in a data base somewhere.
If something gets scanned and verified at the state/federal level (not saying it is) it is safe to assume it will be in a data base FOREVER. Data storage is cheap and your information is valuable
 
Is that the case? Ive seen a lot of people say the scan only shows up and nothing is retained in a data base somewhere.

That's what the TSA used to say until it was shown that they were lying about it. I think that's what they also said initially about license plate scanners too.
 
The only ID check required by Mass Cannabis Control Commission is at the store entrance; reports state they've also chosen to scan ID at checkout as well, possibly as a way to comply with the daily sales limit?

If something gets scanned and verified at the state/federal level (not saying it is) it is safe to assume it will be in a data base FOREVER. Data storage is cheap and your information is valuable
The system used by the dispensary scanners certainly is not "scanned and verified at the state/federal level", after all, MJ is still federally illegal.

There are a handful of companies offering ID scan/checking to these shops, some are entirely self-contained, some are cloud-based, all claim not to retain the data nor share it without a warrant (or when hacked).

Once you give someone your ID all the information on it belongs to them and they can share it with whomever they want.
This isn’t medical information and HIPAA does not apply.
Under Massachusetts 201 CMR 17.00, an ID scan would be considered "Personal Information" and they cannot "share it with whomever they want.".

Additionally, for shops doing medical sales, records of those would appear to be HIPAA-protected, as well as protected under MA state law.
 
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I'll stick with my last years comment.
That new attachment from the Law book is nice...for state law.
But again as already said, you'd be lying on a Federal form, it's still federally illegal.
 
The only ID check required by Mass Cannabis Control Commission is at the store entrance; reports state they've also chosen to scan ID at checkout as well, possibly as a way to comply with the daily sales limit?


The system used by the dispensary scanners certainly is not "scanned and verified at the state/federal level", after all, MJ is still federally illegal.

There are a handful of companies offering ID scan/checking to these shops, some are entirely self-contained, some are cloud-based, all claim not to retain the data nor share it without a warrant (or when hacked).


Under Massachusetts 201 CMR 17.00, an ID scan would be considered "Personal Information" and they cannot "share it with whomever they want.".

Additionally, for shops doing medical sales, records of those would appear to be HIPAA-protected, as well as protected under MA state law.
Except that the gov't exempts itself from the "can't share personal info" rules/laws/regs.

And if dispensaries are saving data to ensure that someone does not buy more than the legal limit per time interval, then they are storing data, period!!
 
I'll stick with my last years comment.
That new attachment from the Law book is nice...for state law.
But again as already said, you'd be lying on a Federal form, it's still federally illegal.
More than that, possession by a prohibited person (user of MJ) is a felony under the feds. Anytime they want to prosecute they are free to do so and will win in court!
 
Not really. The question is in the present tense. If you smoked weed yesterday but "quit" overnight then you can "truthfully" answer no, you are not currently a user of....

A first year law student could shred that question.


Are you an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance? Warning: The use or possession of marijuana remains unlawful under Federal law regardless of whether it has been legalized or decriminalized for medicinal or recreational purposes in the state where you reside.

+1. I am of the same opinion. The question is in the present tense, not past tense. "Are you?", not "Were you?".
 
So it seems like it’s not a DQ for a LTC? I have no skin in the game but I have friends just getting their LTC who buy from dispensaries asking me what’s the risk. I told them it is still illegal federally and they’d be lying on the 4473 form etc.
It's not like possession of an LTC immunizes you
from criminal charges for possessing a gun.
 
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