BREWINZ
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Balls. Thanks.
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M1 Garand - School Me
- Thread starter BREWINZ
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Balls. Thanks.
I love my Garand. It's CMP special. One of my favorite aspects is how solidly built it is. This rifle is about as GI Proof as something can possibly be.
ChevyGuy91
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I added myself to their emailer blast. If I get the opportunity, I'll snatch one up at $1k-1100.
My 1943 Luger is the second most accurate handgun I own. The First would be my 1942 Walther P38. I would love to CC either one of those, but wouldn't want to lose them if anything happened.
I got a CMP field special, which was new wood + new barrel with an original receiver that had some dings on it. Whatever dings there were were so minor that I can't tell they are there, the thing shoots great. CMP is the way to go.
When you get one just be sure you put the fork thing in the right way up when you reassemble it, I bent mine and had to get a new one.
When you get one just be sure you put the fork thing in the right way up when you reassemble it, I bent mine and had to get a new one.
KBCraig
NES Member
If you reload to anything other than USGI standards, it gets even more expensive.
If you want to reload the 168 hornadys seem to work well and are way cheaper than the SMKs. Nosler CCs are probably also good.
fencer
NES Member
Wow. Where to begin.
First of all, there are no "correct" M1 Garands out there. If you encounter one, it's going to be "holy grail expensive" and better have papers to prove it or its a put-together. More likely a put together assembled from parts over the years. These rifles, like the Carbines, were recycled numerous times for performance, reliance, and accuracy, not matching numbers. So, expect a mix-master from the get-go.
Second, why own one? Because they are, in my very humble but experienced opinion, one of the most incredible semi-auto rifles I've every fired and to be sure, I've owned and shot one of every semi-auto MBR from around the world, period. Every other competitor is a " wannabe" compared to the Garand. IT does what it does efficiently and harnesses that 30.06 incredibly well. BTW, as far as I'm concerned, the 30.06 caliber is the only round for the Garand. It comes down to a matter of history really. The Armory here in Springfield, MA along with outside suppliers made 6 million + of these beasts in that caliber. They knew what they were doing.
Third, if you want a Garand, don't "settle" for a "tanker" version or one in .308. Regardless of the ammo cost, you are buying this rifle for it's history and the fact that it'll be one of your most accurate firearms in your stable outside of the AR you've got. Think of all the soldiers who held that rifle, bled on it and dropped it, cleaned it and the fact that it's been out there since the early 1940s. In my stable it'll be the one last rifle that I'll die owning and my son will take it after that for his daughter or son. Just buy one. Research it and then rebuild it. It's a very straight forward machine and, while parts are beginning to become more scarce, there are plenty of guys out there to support your project. When i got mine, the barrel muzzle was so shot out that it would swallow not only the 30 cal round but the neck of the round, too!! It was too bad to counterbore so way back when I bought a NOS barrel off of eBAy at the time. It happened to be of the correct manufacture so I lucked out. My stock is also a rare one but I found it on the rack at a local gun shop one day for $325. I know.....that'll never happen again but I'd do it again if I saw one for $800. Scott Duff has the be-all-end-all book on the Garand.
No one hunts with it anymore but there are guys all over the country who compete with them at Camp Perry in Ohio. I've had the pleasure of shooting mine and my 01a1 there a few times. Let me tell you that there is nothing more American sounding than over 150 Garand shooters shooting rapid fire competition out in the open. IT's like a symphony.
So, find a Garand, covet it, get to know it intimately and simply buy some Greek surplus from the cmp oro something similar. Get to be proficient with it off-hand. It's a 200 yard rifle peep sites all day long. Resist, at all costs, to scope it. The sights are simply incredible. Save your brass and have someone reload for you. Learn to shoot it under pressure and attend some military matches with it. You'll feel right at home!
Rome
First of all, there are no "correct" M1 Garands out there. If you encounter one, it's going to be "holy grail expensive" and better have papers to prove it or its a put-together. More likely a put together assembled from parts over the years. These rifles, like the Carbines, were recycled numerous times for performance, reliance, and accuracy, not matching numbers. So, expect a mix-master from the get-go.
Second, why own one? Because they are, in my very humble but experienced opinion, one of the most incredible semi-auto rifles I've every fired and to be sure, I've owned and shot one of every semi-auto MBR from around the world, period. Every other competitor is a " wannabe" compared to the Garand. IT does what it does efficiently and harnesses that 30.06 incredibly well. BTW, as far as I'm concerned, the 30.06 caliber is the only round for the Garand. It comes down to a matter of history really. The Armory here in Springfield, MA along with outside suppliers made 6 million + of these beasts in that caliber. They knew what they were doing.
Third, if you want a Garand, don't "settle" for a "tanker" version or one in .308. Regardless of the ammo cost, you are buying this rifle for it's history and the fact that it'll be one of your most accurate firearms in your stable outside of the AR you've got. Think of all the soldiers who held that rifle, bled on it and dropped it, cleaned it and the fact that it's been out there since the early 1940s. In my stable it'll be the one last rifle that I'll die owning and my son will take it after that for his daughter or son. Just buy one. Research it and then rebuild it. It's a very straight forward machine and, while parts are beginning to become more scarce, there are plenty of guys out there to support your project. When i got mine, the barrel muzzle was so shot out that it would swallow not only the 30 cal round but the neck of the round, too!! It was too bad to counterbore so way back when I bought a NOS barrel off of eBAy at the time. It happened to be of the correct manufacture so I lucked out. My stock is also a rare one but I found it on the rack at a local gun shop one day for $325. I know.....that'll never happen again but I'd do it again if I saw one for $800. Scott Duff has the be-all-end-all book on the Garand.
No one hunts with it anymore but there are guys all over the country who compete with them at Camp Perry in Ohio. I've had the pleasure of shooting mine and my 01a1 there a few times. Let me tell you that there is nothing more American sounding than over 150 Garand shooters shooting rapid fire competition out in the open. IT's like a symphony.
So, find a Garand, covet it, get to know it intimately and simply buy some Greek surplus from the cmp oro something similar. Get to be proficient with it off-hand. It's a 200 yard rifle peep sites all day long. Resist, at all costs, to scope it. The sights are simply incredible. Save your brass and have someone reload for you. Learn to shoot it under pressure and attend some military matches with it. You'll feel right at home!
Rome
As the CMP sorts through the 80k rifles they acquired recently they items will com back in stock. If there are enough space parts and stripped receivers the specials will be back.
the specials where last listed at $1030 shipped.
you could pick up a field grade and re barrel for about the same also.
The navy held onto the garand before it was issued M14,M16 so they converted Garands to the 7.62,NATO for logistic of ammo commonality. The navy is last on the list to get new small arms
ChevyGuy91
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That's cool, I'm still going to get a 308.
Thanks for the heads up. I registered my email with CMP and am looking forward to getting the updates.
As far as competing, I don't have enough time for a personal life to really get into anything fun like that. My local club does run monthly CMP clinics/matches, and I would like to start going to them when I am home, but that will be with the AR15A2 I have been squirreling parts away for.
That's the truth, I learned to shoot on an old M14 in 2003. We carried those on watch all the way until like 2005 when we finally got M16A2's.
Sweeney
NES Member
And here is what was used to convert them. An insert was used to convert the 30-06 chamber to 7.62 x 51. A groove was cut into the chamber with the tool on the right, the spacer dropped in and set with the tool on the left and then a high pressure test round fired to displace some spacer material into the groove.
This can be true , using any of the appropriate burn rate powders and the bulk 150 grain hornady that used to be "cheap" I'm at .30 cents per round on 2015 prices. I'm almost out of those supplies.If you reload to anything other than USGI standards, it gets even more expensive.
Most recent prices: primer .03¢ powder .15¢ Nosler CC .18¢=¢.36 New production PPU can be found for ¢.68-74 round.
I have used the Garand in NRA/DCM Matches for 34 years, always in 30.06. The CMP is the way to go when starting in Match Shooting. I have collected a few Garands over the years, never regretted it. You will really enjoy the M1. Just my 2 cents, but I would stay with 30.06.
Cool , I know a guy who has a 308 case with the adapter stuck to the case. He said it came out of some of the testing he did at the navy testing grounds in PA many years ago.And here is what was used to convert them. An insert was used to convert the 30-06 chamber to 7.62 x 51. A groove was cut into the chamber with the tool on the right, the spacer dropped in and set with the tool on the left and then a high pressure test round fired to displace some spacer material into the groove.
My dad was in the air force as a mechanic he had to qualify to shoot as part of hanger security of something? He qualified on a M16a1 but when stationed the ",armory" was stocked with some 1903a3s,garands and M14s . He always said he would giggle as the 03 and garands where tagged with huge letters M2 30 cal "30-06" only .
when he left the air force he went to NG where they had some of the most worn beat up M1s.
Originally be learned to shoot in the army on a garand and only used a M14 once before going to air force.
if those prices are valid that's not terrible.
Figure if you had to buy a M1 and "restore" it your going to spend that much anyway.
Let's say you find a rifle for $500
Have the gas system rebuilt as they say it's $200+ (cost me $125 to have just a op rod rebuilt)
New stock set cheap is $140
New barrel $180 plus
re finish metal figure that's going to run at least $150 ?
Now pay a Smith to do all the work figure minimum a Smith might charge is $500 for all that work?
I personally have never seen a miltech rifle .
Friend bought one of these Fulton Armory M1 service . It's very nice and the stock is fitted very well. Is it worth the $800 more than a cmp special
Well remember cmp only needs to pay for transportation of the M1s they get for free from the Army. Is the Fulton assembled better than the cmp rifle. I will say this one was .
Worth $800 more?
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45collector
NES Member
A few months back I traded one of my coveted Colt 1911's for a CMP Special Grade .308. The previous owner said he bought it new from CMP and never fired it. He wasn't lying. The guts were still caked with factory grease and there were no signs of the rifle having been fired. It's a 4 million block 1953 Springfield Armory receiver with mostly U.S.G.I. parts except the brand new CMP stock set and Criterion .308 barrel.
The other guy got the better end of the deal I think, as that Colt was worth well north of $1200 but I never shot it, and I had been looking for a nice .308 Garand to shoot for years. I understand the thinking in what cabitman posted about getting a "real" Garand in the correct caliber, but I'm also in the same boat as Ed. I wanted one in .308 for the cost factor, (I reload for my FAL as well), and one that I could shoot the heck out of and not worry about diminishing it's value. It's now near the top of my favorite rifles to shoot list. If you can find one (OP and Ed) you won't be disappointed. Awesome shooting rifle and yes, the watered-down .308 when compared to the mighty 30-06 is easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
The other guy got the better end of the deal I think, as that Colt was worth well north of $1200 but I never shot it, and I had been looking for a nice .308 Garand to shoot for years. I understand the thinking in what cabitman posted about getting a "real" Garand in the correct caliber, but I'm also in the same boat as Ed. I wanted one in .308 for the cost factor, (I reload for my FAL as well), and one that I could shoot the heck out of and not worry about diminishing it's value. It's now near the top of my favorite rifles to shoot list. If you can find one (OP and Ed) you won't be disappointed. Awesome shooting rifle and yes, the watered-down .308 when compared to the mighty 30-06 is easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
I believe the comment was to reflect that modern hunting ammunition is loaded hotter than the M2 ball ammunition the M1 was designed for. Repeated use of easy to get modern ammunition tends to bend the op-rod. The op-rods are not cheap.
If you reload to "modern" standards, you can bend the op-rod. If you reload to M2 spec, everything should be fine.
There are also some other tricks that can be used to take some of the edge off of modern ammunition. There are adjustable venting gas plugs and a gas plug with more head room that are supposed to make modern ammunition less likely to bend or break something.
ChevyGuy91
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A few months back I traded one of my coveted Colt 1911's for a CMP Special Grade .308. The previous owner said he bought it new from CMP and never fired it. He wasn't lying. The guts were still caked with factory grease and there were no signs of the rifle having been fired. It's a 4 million block 1953 Springfield Armory receiver with mostly U.S.G.I. parts except the brand new CMP stock set and Criterion .308 barrel.
The other guy got the better end of the deal I think, as that Colt was worth well north of $1200 but I never shot it, and I had been looking for a nice .308 Garand to shoot for years. I understand the thinking in what cabitman posted about getting a "real" Garand in the correct caliber, but I'm also in the same boat as Ed. I wanted one in .308 for the cost factor, (I reload for my FAL as well), and one that I could shoot the heck out of and not worry about diminishing it's value. It's now near the top of my favorite rifles to shoot list. If you can find one (OP and Ed) you won't be disappointed. Awesome shooting rifle and yes, the watered-down .308 when compared to the mighty 30-06 is easier on the shoulder and the wallet.
I get the whole "real" and "correct" thing, and if I were some kind of collector I would already have one, probably multiple. But I am not a gun collector, I am a shooter. I don't buy guns for the history of them or any of that, I buy them to shoot. I would never shoot a 30-06 Garand anywhere near as much as I would shoot one in 308 so a 30-06 would defeat the purpose of me buying one.
45collector
NES Member
It is worth mentioning that the op rod in the Garand is already bent by design, in two places. The first time I took one apart (for my American Legion post who has a dozen of them) I looked down the op rod and was like "Oh man that thing's buggered.". But it's supposed to be that way. Ones that are actually bent out of spec are usually noticeably so, once you know what you're looking at.
Without hijacking this thread, I'd like to strongly suggest that you shoot surplus ammo or new ammo built around the same specs. Commercial ammo in an older M1 is not a good combo. Commercial ammo has thinner case walls, softer primers, and a pressure spike way different than military spec ammo. You can feel it and hear it when you shoot them side by side. Commercial ammo will also "test" your op-rod. If you're interested, there has been a lot of discussion about this issue here: M1 Garand Ammunition and the Ported Gas Plug Just thought this might be helpful and save someones rifle.
Sweeney
NES Member
I was talking to a friend at his shop about the spacers coming free. He said that happened because the first ones were bonded in. Later, the tools and technique were developed to 'swage' them into place eliminating the failures. He then opened up a drawer and pulled out the pictured items. He's the one who made the tools, developed the technique and executed the conversions at Harrington & Richardson.
At Camp Perry EIC one year, there was a fella who was shooting his .308 Garand that had been converted from 30.06. About 4th round in the fifth round sounded very different. Turns out his inset had ejected with the last round and he shot his .308 in a chamber designed for 30.06. That was distinctively noticeable.
Applying inserts is not the way to go, period. It's been tried in other calibers and rifles so many times in the past. As an example they "converted" 7.62 x 41 barrels into 7.62 x 39 (VZ52 rifles) with an insert that was ultimately unreliable. That rifle was finally reissued in 7.62 x 39 as the VZ52-57. What I would suggest is that you keep your 30.06 barrel and simply replace it with a barrel with a .308 chamber cut. Do that and you'll never have to worry about it again and you won't have damaged the original.
Applying inserts is not the way to go, period. It's been tried in other calibers and rifles so many times in the past. As an example they "converted" 7.62 x 41 barrels into 7.62 x 39 (VZ52 rifles) with an insert that was ultimately unreliable. That rifle was finally reissued in 7.62 x 39 as the VZ52-57. What I would suggest is that you keep your 30.06 barrel and simply replace it with a barrel with a .308 chamber cut. Do that and you'll never have to worry about it again and you won't have damaged the original.
BREWINZ
NES Member
Very helpful. Thank you.
