MA (and possibly Federal) AWB Question

[Burgermeister]

I've always heard that a preban lower is close to the holy grail in MA, because once you have that, you can mount any upper or stock that you want. Recently, I read that under the old Federal AWB, the manufacture date of the receiver alone is not what determines whether you really have a preban lower--what really matters is whether that preban lower was ever built into a full rifle, preban.

From a practical perspective, how would you know whether a preban lower was ever built into a rifle?

If you were lucky enough to find the one person who bought a preban lower when first manufactured and threw it into his safe, only to have it reappear today, under this requirement I just heard of, he'd now have a postban lower. Could that be right?

 

[Franco]

.From a practical perspective, how would you know whether a preban lower was ever built into a rifle?

if the manufacturer is still around such as dpms, armalite, colt and several others. you can call them up and they can confirm if the lowers serial# was built into a complete rifle before the ban was in effect. they can do a history search and usually will give you something on an offical company letter head for your keeping.

ive seen people on gunbroker list questionable looking "preban lowers" and to find out once i had the manufacturer look up the serial it was indeed a postban.

i cant stress doing your homework on that particular lower and to confirm it your self, dont take anyones word unless you confirm yourself.

 

[andy t]

"Building" means attaching an upper with all evil features to a lower. So even if the lower shipped as "stripped" from the manufacturer, an owner could have attached an upper to it, thus making it "assembled" and an "assault weapon" prior to the beginning of the ban.
Franco is correct, check the serial numbers YOURSELF!

 

[FalArAk]

So even if the lower shipped as "stripped" from the manufacturer, an owner could have attached an upper to it, thus making it "assembled" and an "assault weapon" prior to the beginning of the ban.

You sure about that ?

 

[Len-2A Training]

"Building" means attaching an upper with all evil features to a lower. So even if the lower shipped as "stripped" from the manufacturer, an owner could have attached an upper to it, thus making it "assembled" and an "assault weapon" prior to the beginning of the ban.
Franco is correct, check the serial numbers YOURSELF!

You sure about that ?

True, this was the Fed definition of acceptability.

My pre-ban was built as such from parts by Carl (or his people) before the Fed Ban for a customer who collected ARs. Said customer died and FS got the collection for sale (they were hanging from ceiling in his old shop) when I bought it. I had Carl document the pedigree on the bill of sale when I bought it.

 

[LoginName]

if the manufacturer is still around such as dpms, armalite, colt and several others. you can call them up and they can confirm if the lowers serial# was built into a complete rifle before the ban was in effect. they can do a history search and usually will give you something on an offical company letter head for your keeping.

ive seen people on gunbroker list questionable looking "preban lowers" and to find out once i had the manufacturer look up the serial it was indeed a postban.

i cant stress doing your homework on that particular lower and to confirm it your self, dont take anyones word unless you confirm yourself.

Colt should be easy to confirm as they never sold/shipped stripped lowers.

Then there's Olympic arms which had a fire and destroyed a lot of their sales/manufacturing records.

Bushmaster has a "grey area" range of serial numbers.

And anyone that claims they have a pre-ban Rock River, LaRue, Fulton Armory (any company that didn't exist or manufacture ARs prior to 09/13/94), you should immediately back away from.

 

[drgrant]

I'd love to see the pissing fest in court over the "whether or not the gun was assembled into an AW when the ban was passed" thing. It's basically unenforceable/unprovable.

I doubt it'd ever be an issue unless there is a dated newspaper picture of someone holding THAT EXACT rifle in question on Sept 13 1994 and it didn't
have enough evil features on it in the picture.

Most AR manufs prebans were complete rifles at the cutoff, so the point is kinda moot, at least with AR's. With BM and Colt you can ask the factory (and they can send you letters attesting to it's provenance) not sure about the others.

-Mike

 

[Trupo]

Taken from Biggerhammer.net:

http://www.biggerhammer.net/ar15/ar15serial.html

"It should be clearly noted that it is a felony to possess a Post-Ban (newly assembled after Sept 13, 1994) assault weapon. Please note that BATF has ruled that "Pre-ban" and "Grandfathered" are two different things. A Pre-ban lower is only grandfathered if it: 1. was a complete rifle prior to 9/13/94; 2. possessed two banned features (pistol grip and CAR stock assembled); or 3. was part of a complete weapon kit, either assembled or not. This list does not discern between "Pre-ban" and "Grandfathered" as it is very nearly impossible to find that detail of information."

Where this was pertinent to the former Federal AWB, is this now what Mass mirrors? In particular points # 2 and 3, I hadn't previously heard of those two exceptions?

 

[M1911]

Buy a pre-ban Colt -- they never sold stripped receivers.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Where this was pertinent to the former Federal AWB, is this now what Mass mirrors? In particular points # 2 and 3, I hadn't previously heard of those two exceptions?

MA would "probably" try to push this same definition if they ever took someone to court on it, but it is not a certainty. It would be the most conservative approach so that you don't become the "one" who proves what MGL means in court.