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MA Handgun Compliance Q+A Thread (new)

EJFudd said:
It is for sure! And with my (bad) luck, I'd have been arrested in a second and led away in handcuffs with a raincoat over my head while all my neighbors stared, pointed and shook their heads. [crying]

I think I made the right decision to go home first. [laugh]
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Well at least you wouldn't be leaving your loaded gun in the shitter.
 
CrackPot said:
I have a customer that just completed a course where they said "All ARs are illegal with detachable magazines. Healey said so. I sell fixed mag lowers, take a look"
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That gets regurgitated a lot on some of the guns of mass Facebook groups. Drives me crazy especially when some of the mods tell me to “knock it off” when I tell them it’s legal to buy a new standard stripped AR lower. Including from Keith Langer.

The repeated argument is “are you willing to pay for their legal/attorney fees if they get jammed up??”
 
joe1231913 said:
Well...in fairness...I have been the test case and the guy who footed the bill for their customer....so sometimes for me it's not just a punch line.
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Yeah, but your line would be "This is the docket number, look at how the court ruled" which would be an information packed response, not a content free one.
 
BigAl23 said:
I have one
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Is it the new MA-compliant version (Ruger Model # 13714) or is it the free state version? 🤔

I assume it must be the latter since the MA-compliant version is still unobtainium. [laugh]

I'm waiting for the MA-compliant version just so I can (hopefully) pick it up dirt cheap. :)

Yes, I am one of Drgrant's infamous skinflints!!! [cheers] [rockon] [thumbsup]
 
EJFudd said:
Is it the new MA-compliant version (Ruger Model # 13714) or is it the free state version? 🤔

I assume it must be the latter since the MA-compliant version is still unobtainium. [laugh]

I'm waiting for the MA-compliant version just so I can (hopefully) pick it up dirt cheap. :)

Yes, I am one of Drgrant's infamous skinflints!!! [cheers] [rockon] [thumbsup]
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No, 13705

As far as picking one up "cheap", you can't be more of a skinflint than I am. LOL. Expect to pay over MSRP. My LGS had a M&P Compact for $650 and just sold a M&P9 Range kit for the same price. He doesn't have a 9MM in the shop.
 
BigAl23 said:
No, 13705

As far as picking one up "cheap", you can't be more of a skinflint than I am. LOL. Expect to pay over MSRP. My LGS had a M&P Compact for $650 and just sold a M&P9 Range kit for the same price. He doesn't have a 9MM in the shop.
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Yep. Scarcity and prices are just crazy right now... not good for an old "skinflint" like me! [laugh] Strange times for sure. 🤔
 
drgrant said:
I decided to start this thread because of the enormous amount of questions
we get on this issue.

Any URLs that you guys want me to add to the sticky, please post in
thread.

MA Handgun Compliance Q+A/FAQ:

Q: How do I know if a handgun is "MA compliant" or not? How do all these rules/lists I keep hearing about affect me?

A: MA Handgun Compliance laws/regs are dealer based and primarily have an effect on what MA FFLs can sell or transfer to consumers.

In the most basic terms, there are really FIVE categories of MA handgun compliance at the dealer level:

1. Handgun is currently "MA compliant" on EOPS roster and AG's regs. EG- the stuff you see new in most MA gun stores.... S+W M+P, SW1911s, etc, etc, etc... law is must be on roster plus be (somehow) compliant with the AG's insane regulations.

2. Handgun is currently listed on new EOPS Target Roster (see below for current URL)

3. Pre 98 documented - (eg, owner has paperwork showing it was owned/registered in MA before 10/21/98) = completely exempt from AG and EOPS regs. Doesn't matter what the handgun is, etc, as long as that paperwork is there. Also doesn't matter WHERE the handgun currently is either, as long as the paperwork is there. I once had a friend of mine that moved out of MA but had "MA guns" with paperwork intact. He could still transfer them back in the state to a new MA owner, because they were "registered and in the state on/before 10/21/98".

4. Pre 98 on EOPS roster but AG exempt - handgun is on EOPS roster and exempted from AG's regs, by virtue of having been manufactured before 10/21/98. Example here is a typical Glock made before 10/21/98.

5. handgun is on EOPS roster but buyer is a LEO. This situation exempts the dealer from the AG's regs because the customer is a LEO. In this case it doesn't matter when the gun was made, only that the gun was tested and put on the roster.

Edit: Some readers may be wondering what any guns that don't fit into these categories are... the answer is. they're not "MA compliant" by either the AG''s or EOPS regs, or only by EOPS and not the AG's regs... but it should be noted that "MA compliance" is an issue of dealer transfers and has nothing to do with individual possession or private sale. EG- mere possession of a noncompliant handgun, is NOT a criminal offense. This can't be stated enough, as many in MA improperly use terms like "illegal in MA" or "banned in MA" to describe a handgun which a dealer cannot sell or transfer.

Q: Isn't there an AG's list of which handguns pass both the EOPS and AG's regs?

A: No, not that anyone is aware of. Basically the only mechanism that is used for AG compliance is either the AG whining about it, or not after a manufacturer or dealer makes a statement that the gun is "AG reg compliant" and attempts to start selling it.

Q: My dealer doesn't agree with these standards! His are stricter than the above!!!!

A: Some dealers are overly paranoid and don't completely understand the law. Others rely on bad
sources of information to determine what is or is not compliant.

Q: My dealer doesn't agree with these standards! his are LESS STRICT than the above.

A: Some dealers may be defiant or not know the law very well.

Q: My LEO friend says he can get any handgun he wants from XYZ dealer, this doesn't agree with the above!?!?!

A: Some dealers falsely interpret the LE exemption as a full blown free pass to sell any handgun to a
LEO. These LEOs should not look the gift horse in the mouth. [laugh]

Q: Why can't I just buy something on Gunbroker/Gunsamerica and have it transferred in? Since I'm buying it from out of state this shouldn't count as an MA sale

A: The state appears to treat dealer transfers and direct sales as the same thing. So an MA dealer typically won't even transfer a noncompliant handgun if the end-recipient is an MA resident.

Q:Why can't I just drive to (insert some free state here) and buy whatever handgun I want?!?!?!?!?

A: Problem is per federal law all handgun transfers must occur in ones state of residence, and if you're reading this FAQ, you probably reside in MA. This means the FFL in the other state must send the handgun to an MA FFL before it is transferred to you, per federal law. Obviously, if the handgun isn't compliant, a typical MA FFL is going to
reject the transfer, send the gun back, or if you're lucky, tell the other dealer not even to bother sending it here.

Q: A dealer I know has non-compliant handguns in his shop. How can they do this??!?!?! Isn't that illegal????

A: The dealer is probably selling these guns to out of state residents via FFL transfer, or may be selling them to LEOs if the gun is AG exempt as described above. There is nothing stopping MA FFLs from having non-compliant guns in their inventory- it is the act of selling/transferring one to an MA consumer that is the regulated act.

Q: An MA dealer just sold me a handgun, and (for whatever reason) I think it might not be AG/EOPS compliant. Can I get in trouble????

A: Unless the handgun in question violates the MA AWB (most do not) or there are post-ban large capacity mags with it, no, you cannot get in trouble. It's basically not your problem. The best thing to do is just enjoy your new handgun and not fuss about it. (Also, don't run on to NES to tell everyone else about it, either... think about that for a moment and you'll understand why that is a dumb idea).

Q: I want to know WHY these regs are the way they are!!!???!?!? this doesn't make any sense!!!

A: There are TWO sections of law you should look at, if you want to be bored to death:

Law Governing EOPS testing of handguns:
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-123.htm

AG's Regulations for "Handgun Safety" (AKA 940 CMR 16.00 )
http://www.mass.gov/ago/docs/regulations/940-cmr-16-00.pdf

Other Common (related) Questions:

Q: What do I need to buy a handgun in MA?

A: You must be an MA resident and possess a currently valid LTC A or B (An LTC B will severely restrict your options. )

Q: What about magazines that hold more than 10 rounds? I was told you can't buy any gun that can
take a large capacity magazine!!!!

A: That is at least partially wrong. An LTC-A holder can possess any "large capacity" capable handgun. However, be aware that you can only legally use "large capacity" magazines manufactured before 9/13/1994
(This issue is a whole other can of worms- see also- "MA Assault Weapons Ban" )

See Also this thread discussing Glock Mags, for example:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=4944

Q: I bought a new "MA compliant" gun that has a terrible "MA only" heavy trigger on it. I want to get it fixed.... is this illegal?

A: No, it's not illegal, and yes, you can have a gunsmith adjust the trigger to how you see fit. This is NOT illegal. About the only downside to doing this is that if you turn around to sell the gun later you might have to sell it FTF-FA-10 transfer only, as an MA FFL may not accept it because it may not be "MA compliant" anymore.

Q: I bought an MA compliant gun in one caliber. Is it legal to change the barrel? (eg, .40 to .357 sig, etc. )

A: Yes. Again, handgun compliance is only a dealer issue. Further, there is nothing in MGL which prohibits you from doing this.

Q: I am a non-resident LTC holder visiting MA and normally carry a "non compliant" handgun. Will I get in trouble because it's non compliant???

A: No. If you have a valid MA non resident LTC, and have pre-ban (eg, made before 9/94) magazines (if they hold greater than 10 rounds) you're good to go. Remember that MA handgun compliance is an issue of dealer transfers, not possession.

Q: What about AR / AK and similar style "rifles which have been cobbled into pistols"? Someone told me those are never legal in MA.

A: They may be right, depending on the construction of the pistol. Most of those types of pistols violate the MA AWB unless they were made before 9/13/94. Like the magazine issue above, however, this issue is beyond the scope of "Handgun Compliance".
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Hi Everyone (and Mike, thanks for posting this amazing post, very insightful!)

Here's my question;
Hoping someone can help and shed some light on the ‘approved’ or ‘MA compliant’ list of firearms.

Backstory:

Here in Ma, the prices for used glocks and AR’s (for example) are through the roof expensive vs. other states new prices. So, what I had realized was, I am a dual resident in Maine (parents own a condo of which I am on the tax bill which is good enough to be considered a dual resident).

My question:

Before I head to Maine and return toting a fully kitted up AR, a Glock with 17 round mags, where do I need to draw the line to ensure whatever purchase I make is ‘MA compliant’???

Being military (over 17 years), and having extensive firearms training, you’d think MA would be smart enough and provide a similar exemption that the LEO's get regarding types / laws. But, then again, this is MA after all
 
The only thing you have to really concern you yourself about is the Massachusetts assault weapons ban. That basically means 10-round mags or smaller unless you're going pre ban.

If you're building an AR-15 or buying one and it must be crippled to meet the AWB meaning the evil feature count must be low enough which typically means a fixed/pinned stock, no bayonet lug and a pinned and welded brake or a bare muzzle with no threads. No flash hiders. Preban mags only above 10 rounds. There's more to it than that but that's enough to (sorta help) keep you out of trouble.

As far as your second question goes I'm not even going to touch that much....... you might just want to forget that you ever wrote that... lmao. Not trying to be a prick but that kind of thinking (that le/mil should be privileged) is like ripping a big fart in church- not going to be popular here. [laugh]
 
drgrant said:
The only thing you have to really concern you yourself about is the Massachusetts assault weapons ban. That basically means 10-round mags or smaller unless you're going pre ban.

If you're building an AR-15 or buying one and it must be crippled to meet the AWB meaning the evil feature count must be low enough which typically means a fixed/pinned stock, no bayonet lug and a pinned and welded brake or a bare muzzle with no threads. No flash hiders. Preban mags only above 10 rounds. There's more to it than that but that's enough to (sorta help) keep you out of trouble.

As far as your second question goes I'm not even going to touch that much....... you might just want to forget that you ever wrote that... lmao. Not trying to be a prick but that kind of thinking (that le/mil should be privileged) is like ripping a big fart in church- not going to be popular here. [laugh]
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Well said :)

So basically, go buy whatever I want as long as it has less than 10 round mags (rifles) unless it's pre-ban, and limit the evil feature :)
 
WO14Life said:
Hi Everyone (and Mike, thanks for posting this amazing post, very insightful!)

Here's my question;
Hoping someone can help and shed some light on the ‘approved’ or ‘MA compliant’ list of firearms.

Backstory:

Here in Ma, the prices for used glocks and AR’s (for example) are through the roof expensive vs. other states new prices. So, what I had realized was, I am a dual resident in Maine (parents own a condo of which I am on the tax bill which is good enough to be considered a dual resident).

My question:

Before I head to Maine and return toting a fully kitted up AR, a Glock with 17 round mags, where do I need to draw the line to ensure whatever purchase I make is ‘MA compliant’???

Being military (over 17 years), and having extensive firearms training, you’d think MA would be smart enough and provide a similar exemption that the LEO's get regarding types / laws. But, then again, this is MA after all
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Actually, you are not a dual resident. You cannot be. Tax laws require your to have a "permanent or primary residence".
 
*facepalm*

We're not talking about that stuff, only for ATF regs. For ATF regs he is indeed a dual if he has property or lease on a house or condo
somewhere else. Period end, full stop. Let's not confuse the poor guy here. Tax regs, etc, have nothing to do with what he's asking. He might not be a resident in that
respect, but that is wholly irrelevant to what he is asking. Residency doesn't mean the same thing depending on the context of the question.

Also bear in mind "dual" doesn't mean "simultaneous". Hell even the NH NICS POC background check form has a "dual resident" checkbox on it just for this
application.
 
drgrant said:
*facepalm*

We're not talking about that stuff, only for ATF regs. For ATF regs he is indeed a dual if he has property or lease on a house or condo
somewhere else. Period end, full stop. Let's not confuse the poor guy here. Tax regs, etc, have nothing to do with what he's asking. He might not be a resident in that
respect, but that is wholly irrelevant to what he is asking. Residency doesn't mean the same thing depending on the context of the question.

Also bear in mind "dual" doesn't mean "simultaneous". Hell even the NH NICS POC background check form has a "dual resident" checkbox on it just for this
application.
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Gotcha
 
WO14Life said:
Being military (over 17 years), and having extensive firearms training, you’d think MA would be smart enough and provide a similar exemption that the LEO's get regarding types / laws. But, then again, this is MA after all
Click to expand...

drgrant said:
As far as your second question goes I'm not even going to touch that much....... you might just want to forget that you ever wrote that... lmao. Not trying to be a prick but that kind of thinking (that le/mil should be privileged) is like ripping a big fart in church- not going to be popular here. [laugh]
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The last thing we need is yet another "protected" class. Especially when it comes to rights that are meant for all, not just who we deem fit.
 
Hi Folks, I've been absent from this forum for some time: work, kids, etc. Over this time I have drifted away from handguns - I mostly upland hunt now and have a small collection of shotguns as a result - and am looking to sell some handguns. I am a MA resident and have a Kahr MK9 LTD model that I bought in MA. Kahr has confirmed that it was manufactured in 1998 but I dont have any proof that it was it was owned/registered in MA before 10/21/98.

I think that means that for resale sake I need to sell it to someone outside of MA as it isnt compliant so an in-state FFL wont transfer it to another MA resident? Is a F2F transfer of a handgun possible any more? If so, it seems like it would be legal for me to transfer this pistol to another MA resident LTC holder?

Apologies if this is rudimentary as I've been away from this hobby for years ... Any feedback please? Thx
 
boltonguy said:
Hi Folks, I've been absent from this forum for some time: work, kids, etc. Over this time I have drifted away from handguns - I mostly upland hunt now and have a small collection of shotguns as a result - and am looking to sell some handguns. I am a MA resident and have a Kahr MK9 LTD model that I bought in MA. Kahr has confirmed that it was manufactured in 1998 but I dont have any proof that it was it was owned/registered in MA before 10/21/98.

I think that means that for resale sake I need to sell it to someone outside of MA as it isnt compliant so an in-state FFL wont transfer it to another MA resident? Is a F2F transfer of a handgun possible any more? If so, it seems like it would be legal for me to transfer this pistol to another MA resident LTC holder?

Apologies if this is rudimentary as I've been away from this hobby for years ... Any feedback please? Thx
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F2F it to someone with a MA license and it doesn't matter.
 
Thanks was just looking in the forums and it seems like EFA-10 is the way to go. Appreciate it. I still have a few of the paper FA-10 forms in my safe ...
 
Anyone have a step-by-step guide to a F2F transfer using the new EFA-10 forms? I'm searching but not easily finding that. Thx
 

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