MA LTC expired renewal questions

[veriluxxx]

It is my understanding that possession with an expired LTC only is a civil fine but does this also apply to handguns and large capacity rifles?

Under M.G.L. ch. 140 § 131

(m) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269, any person in possession of a firearm, rifle or shotgun whose license issued under this section is invalid for the sole reason that it has expired, not including licenses that remain valid under paragraph (i) because the licensee applied for renewal before the license expired, but who shall not be disqualified from renewal upon application therefor pursuant to this section, shall be subject to a civil fine of not less than $100 nor more than $5,000 and the provisions of section 10 of chapter 269 shall not apply; provided, however, that the exemption from the provisions of said section 10 of said chapter 269 provided herein shall not apply if: (i) such license has been revoked or suspended, unless such revocation or suspension was caused by failure to give notice of a change of address as required under this section; (ii) revocation or suspension of such license is pending, unless such revocation or suspension was caused by failure to give notice of a change of address as required under this section; or (iii) an application for renewal of such license has been denied.

 

[Len-2A Training]

It applies to any conventional firearm and forever.

 

[veriluxxx]

thanks for the reply, now what about purchasing and registering though?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It applies to any conventional firearm and forever.

3 exceptions:

1. The LTC was revoked for reasons other than failure to file change of address
2. You applied for a renewal/re-issue and have been denied. (this is why police are trained to keep denials on file 4ever)
3. You become a PP

thanks for the reply, now what about purchasing and registering though?

Your LTC remains "valid" if you have applied for a renewal before expiration and not been denied. This is different from the "expired LTC" protection and is an extension of validity. Not sure how this plays out with MIRCS and dealers though.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Rob, it's not "expired" if it is revoked or denied. These are different categories and why I didn't dwell on what wasn't appropriate for the question.

IFF your renewal is input to MIRCS PRIOR to expiration AND you possess the MIRCS receipt with you, legally you can carry, buy, sell for however long it takes before your renewed LTC is issued (words are important here). Once issued, your old LTC/PIN won't work in MIRCS so if the LTC is "in transit" to PD or you, you will have no joy (but are legal to carry/possess).

If the PD sits on a pile of apps and doesn't process yours in MIRCS until after expiration, you can't buy/sell anything and you only have 90 days grace period to carry.

ETA: Don't expect any big box stores in MA to sell you anything even with the MIRCS receipt. And some MA dealers are willfully ignorant and won't either.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob, it's not "expired" if it is revoked or denied. These are different categories and why I didn't dwell on what wasn't appropriate for the question.

The key point about the "revoked except for failure to file change of address" in the statute leads to the conclusion that, for the purposes of the statute, a LTC revoked for that reason is considered expired.

And, since you are actually applying for a "new" LTC (the number changes each time), it is the new one that is being denied, not the old one. You cannot "deny" and LTC that has already been issued (but it can be suspended or revoked).

Now, for the trick question: Can an LTC be revoked for suitability after it has expired?

 

[noxin]

3 exceptions:

1. The LTC was revoked for reasons other than failure to file change of address
2. You applied for a renewal/re-issue and have been denied. (this is why police are trained to keep denials on file 4ever)
3. You become a PP

Your LTC remains "valid" if you have applied for a renewal before expiration and not been denied. This is different from the "expired LTC" protection and is an extension of validity. Not sure how this plays out with MIRCS and dealers though.

If you got the receipt from the issuing department after they entered it into system, the Dealer should be able to process it normally. Enter in the LTC and pin numbers, if it goes any further than that, it's good to go.

 

[veriluxxx]

Unfortunately I let my license expire before renewing it, I only found out because when I went to register a new gun online I kept getting an error. Just had my interview the other day and am awaiting the new ltc

 

[GlockJock]

My apologies for digging this old (and somewhat confusing) thread up, but this subject just came up in conversation last night in work...
Friend has a MA LTC (No Restrictions) that expires soon...A great guy, but he has a "potential paperwork issue" that would really only be an "issue" here in CommieChusetts, an issue that NH/VT etc etc probably wouldn't give a rat's butt about, but the Gestapo here in MA most likely would....So, if he doesn't renew, and just keeps his (expired) LTC, he can carry legally in MA forever (but not sell, buy etc) and is risking only $100 civil fine, not criminal?? Seems strange to believe, considering, well, considering "cuz Massachusetts"....

Clarification (not guesses, but actual clarification) anyone please?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Len-2A Training]

No it is still illegal to possess/carry with an expired LTC (assuming no efforts to renew), however it is a fine with no jail time.

No info given to determine if he worked with a competent firearms lawyer to get the "paperwork" issue resolved.

If the issue is the FLRB restoration he stands a possibility (might be slim) of facing federal charges and the Feds don't play around if they go after you.

 

[cpt_en]

Hi. I need some advice.

My LTC expired and I didn't know about it. I am active in politics and have made some powerful enemies. A police detective in another city called my city to inform them that my license expired. The police came to my house and I surrendered my weapons to them. I have no criminal record. I have reapplied for my license. Could I be in any legal trouble? It has been suggested to me that I retain an attorney.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

First thing, get an LTC holder to the PD with you with a written letter of authorization from you to take possession of the guns. Remember, the bonded thefthouse and you are in a race.

You are in danger of being found responsible for a civil violation for an expired LTC, unless you have become a prohibited person, been denied renewal, or had the LTC revoked for any reason other to file a change of address in which case the safe harbor of an expired LTC no longer applies.

And remember this is not legal advice.

 

[MisterHappy]

But is is good, on point advice.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If you listen to some attorneys you would leave with the impression that telling your buddy not to drink and drive is the unlicensed dispensation of legal advice.

 

[AHM]

If you listen to some attorneys you would leave with the impression that telling your buddy not to drink and drive is the unlicensed dispensation of legal advice.

You say that like it's some kind of crime.

 

[cpt_en]

First thing, get an LTC holder to the PD with you with a written letter of authorization from you to take possession of the guns. Remember, the bonded thefthouse and you are in a race.

You are in danger of being found responsible for a civil violation for an expired LTC, unless you have become a prohibited person, been denied renewal, or had the LTC revoked for any reason other to file a change of address in which case the safe harbor of an expired LTC no longer applies.

And remember this is not legal advice.

Thank you for your response. I do not fall under any of those categories so it seems I do qualify for the safe harbor of an expired license. I did exactly what you said and had a buddy come with me. They signed the weapons over to him. Then the police chief called him and told him that he had to bring them back because it was an unlawful transfer. They did not give an explanation so I have hired an attorney. I have since asked an FFL to retrieve the weapons but he has been told the property officer is on vacation.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Sounds like Dowd found out the guns weren't there any more and laid the same BS he spouts in his ad the MPA journal implying that a PD must hold an FFL to transfer guns to anyone other than a dealer.

 

[Waher]

Sounds like Dowd found out the guns weren't there any more and laid the same BS he spouts in his ad the MPA journal implying that a PD must hold an FFL to transfer guns to anyone other than a dealer.

Could that constitute a fraudulent claim or advertising under state consumer protection law?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Could that constitute a fraudulent claim or advertising under state consumer protection law?

The AG will be as likely to pursue that as indict a Democrat house speaker or MSP trooper who rips off the overtime system.

 

[cpt_en]

My city denied my LTC because I am an "unsuitable" person. In the letter they claimed that failing to turn over weapons with an expired license is a criminal offense. Is this true? It was my understanding it is a civil offense. Further, the letter claims that one of the firearms did not have a lock. But when they confiscated them the police said they were locked. They never gave me a receipt. They are also claiming that part of the reason I am "unsuitable" is because I didn't let them confiscate them immediately. So now asserting my rights by asking if they had a warrant (which they never had) is held against me?

 

[Matt_SERE]

My city denied my LTC because I am an "unsuitable" person. In the letter they claimed that failing to turn over weapons with an expired license is a criminal offense. Is this true? It was my understanding it is a civil offense. Further, the letter claims that one of the firearms did not have a lock. But when they confiscated them the police said they were locked. They never gave me a receipt. They are also claiming that part of the reason I am "unsuitable" is because I didn't let them confiscate them immediately. So now asserting my rights by asking if they had a warrant (which they never had) is held against me?

That is unfortunate, to say the least. An expired license and a license that is denied due to suitability are two different things; see post 4 in this thread. I noticed you did not deny the "suitability" claim. Something must have changed. I would not write any more here and give a call to one of the lawyers used by Comm2A listed on their site. A few which are active members on NES.

Attorneys - Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc. (comm2a.org)

Good luck.

Matt

 

[92G]

Hi. I need some advice.

My LTC expired and I didn't know about it. I am active in politics and have made some powerful enemies. A police detective in another city called my city to inform them that my license expired. The police came to my house and I surrendered my weapons to them. I have no criminal record. I have reapplied for my license. Could I be in any legal trouble? It has been suggested to me that I retain an attorney.

While this is a lousy situation and I hope you get it straightened out, it sounds like there are quite a few missing details (none of which I would suggest posting here). Ideally one has retained legal counsel prior to having their property seized. read SERE's post above.

 

[cpt_en]

I have legal counsel now. Thanks.

 

[rmemory]

I submitted my renewal application in early June and the licensing officer from my PD told me that it was entered into MIRCS prior to my expiration date of 7/2/2021. He did not give me a receipt though.

I went to the state MIRCS website and found a way to print a validation report based on entering my LTC # and PIN, which shows/states that my license is valid as of 7/4/2021. I haven't received the new card yet. Does this mean I'm able to purchase ammo, etc now? I could print the validation report and bring it to the store. I know usually an official online license check doesn't happen if you're just buying ammo but I'm afraid the store will balk at a sale when they see the expiration date on my current card.

 

[Matt_SERE]

The official receipt states it covers the lapse time. Does the 'validation report' do this? And cite any law? Best of luck. Matt

 

[CrackPot]

I submitted my renewal application in early June and the licensing officer from my PD told me that it was entered into MIRCS prior to my expiration date of 7/2/2021. He did not give me a receipt though.

I went to the state MIRCS website and found a way to print a validation report based on entering my LTC # and PIN, which shows/states that my license is valid as of 7/4/2021. I haven't received the new card yet. Does this mean I'm able to purchase ammo, etc now? I could print the validation report and bring it to the store. I know usually an official online license check doesn't happen if you're just buying ammo but I'm afraid the store will balk at a sale when they see the expiration date on my current card.

In your situation I would run a validation at the time of purchase to confirm you LTC is valid. Don't expect this at a big box...

 

[Len-2A Training]

No, you need the official MIRCS receipt. Nothing else counts.