MARSOC chooses the Glock 19

[CatSnoutSoup]

Ok, for us mass holes, for carry,
10 rounds of g19
or 7 rounds of 1911?

If its OK I will opt for 10+1 of .45 in a G30, side-by-side about the same size as a G19.

 

[just jim]

I agree completely with the complaints about the sights.

Even with my Gen4 guns. I typically reverse the rear sight so the white is not showing, then enlarge the groove with a file. finally I put a fiber optic on the front.

However, if you've ever taken any instruction in reflexive or instinctive shooting, you will see that at truly defensive distances, sights aren't really that necessary. I'm not making an excuse. Its just how things work for me. I don't really need a rear sight, but a nice glowing front is all I need to shoot out past 20 yards.

With all that said, I had a Gen 3 G34 with over 30,000 rounds through it. The sights were stock except for darkening the U notch on the adjustable rear. The gun led an easy life. (No carry, but about 8 years of IDPA use) But 30K rounds is still a fair amount of use.

Don

I am really old school, old old school. I would never trust instincts to hit my target but I do trust a good sight picture. I would never purposely open up the back sight because if the fight did go to distance I would like to hit the target. Ya its that old dinosaur in me, I still use weaver stance and still use the sights.

 

[ridleyman]

Am I wrong, or did the Marines, or maybe some other branch, adopt the Colt 1911 CQBP (close quarters battle pistol) just a year or two ago? It comes in desert tan and it has a rail underneath. It looks totally badass cool, but it's expensive and not in MA!

 

[Andy in NH]

Am I wrong, or did the Marines, or maybe some other branch, adopt the Colt 1911 CQBP (close quarters battle pistol) just a year or two ago? It comes in desert tan and it has a rail underneath. It looks totally badass cool, but it's expensive and not in MA!

In 2012 the M45A1 CQBP was selected as the pistol for MARSOC and Force Recon.

A former OIC of MSOS told me that the M45 proved to be less reliable than the G19.

 

[just jim]

In 2012 the M45A1 CQBP was selected as the pistol for MARSOC and Force Recon.

A former OIC of MSOS told me that the M45 proved to be less reliable than the G19.

No surprise there as glocks come from the factory ready to rock and 1911s like they bought needed break in in my opinion. All the demands on what the 1911 should do made it unreliable, 1911s were first introduced they would go thousands of rounds before failure.

 

[mrmike7189]

Les baer custom 1911 in 9mm. The "black baer"

Checked out the guns and ammo magazine this week. On the cover is the new Les baer custom 1911 in 9mm. The "black baer" . It's a thing of beauty .
The marines can carry the 1911 now and with 9mm capacity,best of both worlds ...isn't it?

 

[bullseye]

Great choice!! Now issue 33 round sticks along with the 15's.

 

[M1911]

I am really old school, old old school. I would never trust instincts to hit my target but I do trust a good sight picture. I would never purposely open up the back sight because if the fight did go to distance I would like to hit the target. Ya its that old dinosaur in me, I still use weaver stance and still use the sights.

Go to any USPSA match. Many of the guys with the highest scores in Production use a narrow front sight blade and a wide rear sight notch. But they still hit the target at 50 yards.

Your assertion that opening up the rear sight notch would result in inaccuracy at distance is patently false.

 

[HiCap]

Maybe Maura will take notice and let Glocks into Ma. Or she can walk off a cliff.

 

[goodlife30]

Personally I don't see a need for a pistol on the modern battlefield in the traditional sense. Definitely full auto. When you think of what is needed to get to having someone draw a pistol. Between the artillery/air support, crew served weapons, service rifles, and grenades-yes not all used-but a semi-auto pistol would seem to be inadequate considering all of this.

 

[Meehuel]

My first competition pistol was my then P99CAS carry gun, just for the hell of it. The fiber sight set I found for it from the Walther guy has a big wide V shape making for a lot of 'white space' and basically forming a W ish sight picture. At first I though it was totally crazy, at the time I called it a vague sight picture. I decided to go with it anyways since choices were < limited. I ended up loving those sights. Still do. Wish I could find something close for my VP9.

Go to any USPSA match. Many of the guys with the highest scores in Production use a narrow front sight blade and a wide rear sight notch. But they still hit the target at 50 yards.

Your assertion that opening up the rear sight notch would result in inaccuracy at distance is patently false.

 

[just jim]

Go to any USPSA match. Many of the guys with the highest scores in Production use a narrow front sight blade and a wide rear sight notch. But they still hit the target at 50 yards.

Your assertion that opening up the rear sight notch would result in inaccuracy at distance is patently false.

ya well if I am wrong then why doesnt the factory send them out that way? No I am not going to argue with you, I can just tell you from my hunting expearience that to hit small targets at a distance a wide rear site doesn't work for me. Honestly I really don't care what you do to your guns...

 

[M1911]

ya well if I am wrong then why dosent the factory send them out that way?

Factory sights are often crap, meant to attract buyers and be cheap, not necessarily be the best sights. For example, the stock plastic sights on Glocks are horrid. If you think that the factory sights on Glocks are the best there is, then you are sorely mistaken.

No I am not going to argue with, I can just tell you from my hunting expearience that to hit small targets at a distance a wide rear site doesn't work for me. Honestly I really don't care what you do to your guns...

There is a difference between saying "it doesn't work for me" versus "it doesn't work". Wide rear sights do, in fact, work for many people. And I strongly suspect that they would actually work for you, too, if you actually gave them an honest try with a good set of sights.

 

[just jim]

Factory sights are often crap, meant to attract buyers and be cheap, not necessarily be the best sights. The stock plastic sights on Glocks are horrid.



There is a difference between saying "it doesn't work for me" versus "it doesn't work". Wide rear sights do, in fact, work for many people. And I strongly suspect that they would actually work for you, too, if you actually gave them an honest try with a good set of sights.

Military rifle sites have a large apiture for close up and small apiture for distance, I guess they have it wrong...?

 

[M1911]

Military rifle sites have a large apiture for close up and small apiture for distance, I guess they have it wrong...?

1) Rifles are not pistols.
2) Aperture sights are not the same as post and notch sights.
3) Most people don't shoot pistols out to 600 yards.
4) Many USPSA master-level shooters use wide rear notches and still hit the target at 50 yards.

You can argue about how theoretically it can't work. Or you can accept the fact that many USPSA competitors make it work every weekend.

Take off your blinders and accept the fact that you don't know everything there is to know about shooting a handgun. A lot of things that people thought were true about a shooting have been proven to be false.

 

[MAGA99]

Take off your blinders and accept the fact that you don't know everything there is to know about shooting a handgun. A lot of things that people thought were true about a shooting have been proven to be false.

Guns are fun, that I know for a fact!

 

[just jim]

1) Rifles are not pistols.
2) Aperture sights are not the same as post and notch sights.
3) Most people don't shoot pistols out to 600 yards.
4) Many USPSA master-level shooters use wide rear notches and still hit the target at 50 yards.

You can argue about how theoretically it can't work. Or you can accept the fact that many USPSA competitors make it work every weekend.

Take off your blinders and accept the fact that you don't know everything there is to know about shooting a handgun. A lot of things that people thought were true about a shooting have been proven to be false.

I get it, the science has been settled and there is no room for deniers.... I am done here, I just can't take it...

 

[dcmdon]

For what its worth.....

If one of these guys has transitioned to his pistol, the crap has really hit the fan.

The G 19 is extremely easy to modify to full auto.

I worked with some dudes in Afghanistan (not MARSOC) that had G19s that were full auto, and the way they explained it to me made total sense (as to why ).

This may have had something to do with the decision.

Here is a video of me shooting a full auto G17. (made and possessed in compliance with all applicable laws). I am pretty good at managing recoil and look at where the gun goes. We all considered the gun to be the most unsafe machine gun we've ever fired. The builder immediately disassembled it and destroyed the autosear.

[video=youtube_share;i-no6TVtX0g]http://youtu.be/i-no6TVtX0g[/video]

The gun is nearly useless in full auto. About the only purpose I could ever think of is to provide the noise of full auto fire to get the enemy to put their heads down so people can move.

 

[TC204]

In general the USMC did go with the 1911, just the Spec Ops went with the G-19

I feel like I just read they went to a 1911. These stories are always changing. Then again I could be misunderstanding everything.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Andy in NH]

In general the USMC did go with the 1911, just the Spec Ops went with the G-19

Again - false information.

The service pistol for the USMC is the Beretta M9.

 

[GPP]

Here is a video of me shooting a full auto G17. (made and possessed in compliance with all applicable laws). I am pretty good at managing recoil and look at where the gun goes. We all considered the gun to be the most unsafe machine gun we've ever fired. The builder immediately disassembled it and destroyed the autosear.

[video=youtube_share;i-no6TVtX0g]http://youtu.be/i-no6TVtX0g[/video]

The gun is nearly useless in full auto. About the only purpose I could ever think of is to provide the noise of full auto fire to get the enemy to put their heads down so people can move.

Not to dispel any of your shooting talents, but there are a few NESrs that got to see a video of me shooting my G19 with the very easily installed piece that may or may not have come home with me from Afghanistan. I of course videoed this under the auspice of implementing them into my PD as Im the armorer, and this was training.

Totally controllable, groups the size of a tennis ball be it a mag dump or 3-5 round bursts, up to 25 yards.
If the guys that saw the vids wanna chime in, feel free lol.

I think you need to address where any of these guys would be using a pistol in the first place. Id be willing to bet thatt at 3-5 yards, youd be able to dump a full mag into a very small area. You arent full auto with a pistol to put guys heads down, you are full auto with a pistol because thats all you have left, and youre in a CQB enviornment

 

[dcmdon]

Not to dispel any of your shooting talents, but there are a few NESrs that got to see a video of me shooting my G19 with the very easily installed piece that may or may not have come home with me from Afghanistan. I of course videoed this under the auspice of implementing them into my PD as Im the armorer, and this was training.

Totally controllable, groups the size of a tennis ball be it a mag dump or 3-5 round bursts, up to 25 yards.
If the guys that saw the vids wanna chime in, feel free lol.

I think you need to address where any of these guys would be using a pistol in the first place. Id be willing to bet thatt at 3-5 yards, youd be able to dump a full mag into a very small area. You arent full auto with a pistol to put guys heads down, you are full auto with a pistol because thats all you have left, and youre in a CQB enviornment

I don't take any offense to your question. In summary, I'm fairly proficient. I'm a mid pack finisher in most competitions, which frankly puts me towards the top of the general shooting public. One thing I did not do when shooting the Glock full auto is use a push/pull technique, which apparently helps when shooting them. See below for a video that shows my skill level and ability to control recoil. Not awesome. Not terrible.

Either way. I really don't see how a Glock could be useful even in CQB environments unless you start shooting at the knees and let it work its way up to the chest. But then again, I am not an soldier or cop.

Don

[video=youtube_share;FsQlkm63SbU]http://youtu.be/FsQlkm63SbU[/video]

 

[Wendell]

Personally I don't see a need for a pistol on the modern battlefield in the traditional sense. Definitely full auto. When you think of what is needed to get to having someone draw a pistol. Between the artillery/air support, crew served weapons, service rifles, and grenades-yes not all used-but a semi-auto pistol would seem to be inadequate considering all of this.

Read McBride, chapter 10 - The Pistol in War.

https://www.amazon.com/Rifleman-Went-War-Herbert-McBride/dp/1614271674

 

[ochmude]

Military rifle sites have a large apiture for close up and small apiture for distance, I guess they have it wrong...?

I've personally shot an entire USMC known distance qualification with the large aperture just to see if I could, and I qualified expert. It's not hard, even out to 500 yards.

 

[GPP]

I don't take any offense to your question. In summary, I'm fairly proficient. I'm a mid pack finisher in most competitions, which frankly puts me towards the top of the general shooting public. One thing I did not do when shooting the Glock full auto is use a push/pull technique, which apparently helps when shooting them. See below for a video that shows my skill level and ability to control recoil. Not awesome. Not terrible.

Either way. I really don't see how a Glock could be useful even in CQB environments unless you start shooting at the knees and let it work its way up to the chest. But then again, I am not an soldier or cop.

Don

[video=youtube_share;FsQlkm63SbU]http://youtu.be/FsQlkm63SbU[/video]

Don,
Looks good to me, you quite obviously know your way around a handgun, no question.

I think where you miss the mark, is in understanding what type of scenario a MARSOC Marine would have to transition to his pistol.
A pistol is obviously not used for suppressive fire, no brainer. A Marine Infantryman becomes very adept at the "shoot, move, communicate" mantra. To qualify for MARSOC, you are far beyond the SMC basics.

How many rounds did you put thru your buddies Glock before it was disassembled? A magazines worth? A few mags? A few hundred? That MARSOC Marine will put an uncalcuable amount of rounds thru that G17 (full auto or not), and become ridiculously proficient with it, because thats what they do. Its no different from turning lap after lap after lap at the Bridge or Loudon.

I have zero idea as to why they chose Glock, but I have worked with guys downrange who had full auto Glock 19s; for the ease of converting them, their light weight (comparitively speaking of course), and of course their durability.

If you want to put many more rounds downrange with a FA G19, let me know, I bet I could source one, and I bet youd become quite proficient with it.

 

[In God We Trust]

I've personally shot an entire USMC known distance qualification with the large aperture just to see if I could, and I qualified expert. It's not hard, even out to 500 yards.

I never qualified less than expert and I only used the large aperture. The small one obscured too much of the range for my taste.

 

[bill o]

Not to dispel any of your shooting talents, but there are a few NESrs that got to see a video of me shooting my G19 with the very easily installed piece that may or may not have come home with me from Afghanistan. I of course videoed this under the auspice of implementing them into my PD as Im the armorer, and this was training.

Totally controllable, groups the size of a tennis ball be it a mag dump or 3-5 round bursts, up to 25 yards.

Are you saying you've done a full auto mag dump into a 3" group at 25 yards?

 

[Artifact]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Artifact]

Are you saying you've done a full auto mag dump into a 3" group at 25 yards?

Missed the FA mag dump part. I would love to see that.

 

[drgrant]

Here is a video of me shooting a full auto G17. (made and possessed in compliance with all applicable laws). I am pretty good at managing recoil and look at where the gun goes. We all considered the gun to be the most unsafe machine gun we've ever fired. The builder immediately disassembled it and destroyed the autosear.

[video=youtube_share;i-no6TVtX0g]http://youtu.be/i-no6TVtX0g[/video]

The gun is nearly useless in full auto. About the only purpose I could ever think of is to provide the noise of full auto fire to get the enemy to put their heads down so people can move.

I bet a micro uzi is worse. **** those things..