MASS: Doe Permits Out

I remember when zone 8 was 100% and you could also get them over the counter.

I do the same in Connecticut. The numbers in southern Connecticut are way down from what they once were.

Bob

Yes...me too, but actually, they are doing a good thing in z8 by not over doing it.....I see way less deer than I used to here, I think its a step in the right direction. There are some very nice bucks due to the thin herd, but I'd like to see more deer.

I agree, Southern CT isn't the mecca it once was. The state opened a lot of state land in the towns that were once closed to hunting. (centennial forest, etc) Towns with a lot of closed state forest land, like Ridgefield, Redding, Danbury, Newtown, were once loaded with deer, are now getting hammered with bowhunting from Sept 15th to December 31st. Then they had shotgun hunts on some areas as well.... The deer population definately is getting thinner, add to that are now in where we'd never see them before and they are taking fawns left and right. I even see it in my urban 2-5 acre spots. We are shooting coyotes now, and they show up rather regularly on the cams now, where 7-8 years ago the same properties would NEVER have coyotes on them.

There are still sanctuary towns with very little state land that offer decent if not excellent hunting. That's where I hunt. Usually on small lots or lots close to town land or a large unhunted sanctuary type piece. But even on those spots, where I'd see 10 deer 5 years ago, it's now smaller groups of 1-3.

More people are hunting them now, and it's not like it used to be 10 years ago. I'm glad I filled my wall when I did, its a lot harder now that it used to be. Even though we passed many bucks, hoping they'd get bigger, the properties were too small, and you'd get some jack off shooting the deer you just passed up. Now I just go there to fill the freezer if I need to, and hunt bucks up north here. Honestly with the traffic, landowner BS, and worrying about where the deer is going to end up after you whack it, it's almost not worth the trouble anymore.

CT will always be better because of the private land rules, it helps with giving the deer sanctuary. The state in general also has a better food crop potential, as white oaks and oaks in general are super prevalent. But coyotes don't care about sanctuary, and game managers really don't interpret coyotes to be the problem they really are. Therefore the liberal rules that worked 10 years ago, pre coyote, are now a poison pill for the whitetail herd. Which is what they wanted, the insurance companies lobby for this bullshit, they want the deer/car impacts as low as possible.
 
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I agree whole heartedly. Plus you still have unlimited replacement tags in those zones.

My Connecticut hunting is to fill the freezer but I'm still doing it predominantly on state land in southern CT. I have some private in Northwestern CT and it is a much nicer drive and I see pretty close to the same number of deer there.

The one main issue that I run into in Mass is the doe tags from Eastern zones being filled in Western zones. Tele-check/Internet check isn't compatible with deer management zones. Most are honest some aren't; as it is with most things.

I always dump coyotes when the opportunity arises. I'm looking forward to the seasons opening. It's hard to believe that bear opens in less than a month now. I'm going to give preadator calls a go this season. Should be fun.

Bob
 
The one main issue that I run into in Mass is the doe tags from Eastern zones being filled in Western zones. Tele-check/Internet check isn't compatible with deer management zones. Most are honest some aren't; as it is with most things.

Bob

This happens a lot out by me. Mainly by large groups of guys that drive deer and shoot anything that moves. I know these guys hunt Zone 5 and it's not easy to get a doe tag yet I see these groups hanging lots of does and skips up all the time tagged with zone 10 or something. Sux.
 
This happens a lot out by me. Mainly by large groups of guys that drive deer and shoot anything that moves. I know these guys hunt Zone 5 and it's not easy to get a doe tag yet I see these groups hanging lots of does and skips up all the time tagged with zone 10 or something. Sux.

I don't get it, so you shoot a doe in the wrong zone and claim it was harvested elsewhere?
Im also not defending large groups driving deer, but you would figure someone has a doe tag...
Hunting WMA is like a deer drive anyway with so many hunting on foot, or walking through only to stay 20min and walk back through...WMA arent very fun or safe and can be quite frustrating.
 
I don't get it, so you shoot a doe in the wrong zone and claim it was harvested elsewhere?
Im also not defending large groups driving deer, but you would figure someone has a doe tag...
Hunting WMA is like a deer drive anyway with so many hunting on foot, or walking through only to stay 20min and walk back through...WMA arent very fun or safe and can be quite frustrating.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with driving deer....especially since it's legal.

There IS ssomethingwrong with shooting does outside of the zone you have a tag for.
 
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with driving deer....especially since it's legal.

I don't bow hunt, and I hate climbing trees so mostly my involvement in deer hunting is on small drives with a small group of buddies in the first week of shotgun. I've been along with larger groups (I'm talking 20+ orange vests, the "pumpkin army") and generally that size drive moves more deer than a group of five. But I prefer sticking with my small group, we've all hunted together for years. Smaller drives seem more ethical somehow. We've pushed nice deer out of amazingly small pieces of woods. And in Zone 12 there's a lot of those.

Come primitive season though, I do enjoy taking the smoke pole for a walk solo on those still, frigid mornings. There are some pretty large areas of legally hunted woods on the outer Cape I enjoy hitting once a year if I can find the time. I've never even fired a shot at a deer out there, but they are out there. Like the big fat-a$$ doe that stood staring at me on the dunes of Wellfleet a few years back, when I didn't get a Z12 doe tag. ;)
 
I don't bow hunt, and I hate climbing trees so mostly my involvement in deer hunting is on small drives with a small group of buddies in the first week of shotgun. I've been along with larger groups (I'm talking 20+ orange vests, the "pumpkin army") and generally that size drive moves more deer than a group of five. But I prefer sticking with my small group, we've all hunted together for years. Smaller drives seem more ethical somehow. We've pushed nice deer out of amazingly small pieces of woods. And in Zone 12 there's a lot of those.

Come primitive season though, I do enjoy taking the smoke pole for a walk solo on those still, frigid mornings. There are some pretty large areas of legally hunted woods on the outer Cape I enjoy hitting once a year if I can find the time. I've never even fired a shot at a deer out there, but they are out there. Like the big fat-a$$ doe that stood staring at me on the dunes of Wellfleet a few years back, when I didn't get a Z12 doe tag. ;)
We keep our drives to 6-9 buddies. We do well in zone 9. Everyone in our group of 9 filled a tag last year.....some of us filled 2!
 
I don't get it, so you shoot a doe in the wrong zone and claim it was harvested elsewhere?

Not sure what you don't get, if your going to be a poacher, its 100% your getting a doe tag in Z9-14. People know this. Why apply in Zones 1-8 that have way less shot of getting a tag...... So they apply for 9 or 10 usually, and get the tag, maybe buy another OTC, and shoot the deer, or multiples of deer, in Zone 1-8 where they have land to hunt on, then just claim they shot it in a different town.

Generally these people are lazy slobs who would take everything they see anyway. I've talked to these people, and they actually see nothing wrong with it, their reaction is "hey, I paid 5 dollars for that permit, I should be able to use it"

I think what adds to this whole thing, is hunting land is a lot harder to come by in eastern zones, and guy's are too lazy to find it, so they tag trade poach out here a lot. A mandatory permission slip that would need to be shown in towns with little or no public land, or question on where they got the deer in that zone would go a long way towards stopping this BS. This is actually starting to happen, and tripping some guys up....but it would require a ton of follow up from wardens and they just don't have the resources.

In some cases guys are mildly retarded and go overboard and buy extra tags for Zones on the Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard....there were a couple people out by me that did that and had their deer confiscated because they could not for the life of them explain where on Nantucket they shot the deer and how they got it out to Zone 5 for checking on the same day. But you really pretty much have to be that stupid to be caught, and the reality is those deer whether confiscated or not were taken from a zone with a low deer population. The damage is done.
 
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Not sure what you don't get, if your going to be a poacher, its 100% your getting a doe tag in Z9-14. People know this. Why apply in Zones 1-8 that have way less shot of getting a tag...... So they apply for 9 or 10 usually, and get the tag, maybe buy another OTC, and shoot the deer, or multiples of deer, in Zone 1-8 where they have land to hunt on, then just claim they shot it in a different town.

Generally these people are lazy slobs who would take everything they see anyway. I've talked to these people, and they actually see nothing wrong with it, their reaction is "hey, I paid 5 dollars for that permit, I should be able to use it"

I think what adds to this whole thing, is hunting land is a lot harder to come by in eastern zones, and guy's are too lazy to find it, so they tag trade poach out here a lot. A mandatory permission slip that would need to be shown in towns with little or no public land, or question on where they got the deer in that zone would go a long way towards stopping this BS. This is actually starting to happen, and tripping some guys up....but it would require a ton of follow up from wardens and they just don't have the resources.

In some cases guys are mildly retarded and go overboard and buy extra tags for Zones on the Nantucket or Martha's Vineyard....there were a couple people out by me that did that and had their deer confiscated because they could not for the life of them explain where on Nantucket they shot the deer and how they got it out to Zone 5 for checking on the same day. But you really pretty much have to be that stupid to be caught, and the reality is those deer whether confiscated or not were taken from a zone with a low deer population. The damage is done.

Well thanks for the long explanation, sometimes its hard for me to get.
If i was going to go for full retard, i wouldnt get that in depth..
At my place we follow the most basic rules.... using a tag from the wrong zone isn't even a thing IMO..if the game warden approach someone on my land i'd all bent out of shape.

While i guess its not my responsibly. Shit like that would get you band for life from my place.

Edit. This should have read differently. I would be made at the hunter not the game warden.
if the game warden caught someone on my land with bad tags, i'd all bent out of shape
 
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Well thanks for the long explanation, sometimes its hard for me to get.
If i was going to go for full retard, i wouldnt get that in depth..
At my place we follow the most basic rules.... using a tag from the wrong zone isn't even a thing IMO..if the game warden approach someone on my land i'd all bent out of shape.

While i guess its not my responsibly. Shit like that would get you band for life from my place.

I'm all for game wardens pulling all tags on checked in does, finding discrepancies like guy or gal lives in zone 4 or 5, yet deer claimed to be shot in zone 9,10 or 11.

Not that it can't happen, but a basic check by calling them, asking them questions on where they can find the gutpile, or a permission slip for private land, some proof of being able to hunt there, etc. Honestly, with does, there should be no telecheck, it should be mandatory to check them in the zone you shot them in. It would make it way easier to police and it would keep many people from falsifying doe permits.

Poachers will still poach, but they won't be able to do it under the guise of a false doe permit.
 
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I'm all for game wardens pulling all tags on checked in does, finding discrepancies like guy or gal lives in zone 4 or 5, yet deer claimed to be shot in zone 9,10 or 11.

Not that it can't happen, but a basic check by calling them, asking them questions on where they can find the gutpile, or a permission slip for private land, some proof of being able to hunt there, etc. Honestly, with does, there should be no telecheck, it should be mandatory to check them in the zone you shot them in. It would make it way easier to police and it would keep many people from falsifying doe permits.

Poachers will still poach, but they won't be able to do it under the guise of a false doe permit.
I do agree with you on the mandated check in to curb the cheating with doe permits.

But....have to admit I like the convenience of checking a deer with my cell phone during muzzle muzzle loader season.
 
I do agree with you on the mandated check in to curb the cheating with doe permits.

But....have to admit I like the convenience of checking a deer with my cell phone during muzzle muzzle loader season.

From a guy that's been checking in CT deer on the internet for 10 years....I absolutely agree, but until they can put some type of fail safe on the permits, like only selling them to people with permission slips to hunt in those zones, or whatever. A mandatory check in the zone you killed it in would go a long way to curb the B.S.

BTW, it would be only for does...not bucks. That way they could really keep tabs on the doe kill, which affects the population the most.
 
I do agree with you on the mandated check in to curb the cheating with doe permits.

But....have to admit I like the convenience of checking a deer with my cell phone during muzzle muzzle loader season.

I would gladly give up the convenience if it curbed poaching. But I don't think it will. Rather than using a tag from a different zone, they just won't tag them at all. EPO is grossly under staffed to effectively police poaching. I've hunted some heavily hunted WMAs and have NEVER seen a EPO outside of a check station.

I'll add to that... I believe their priorities are in the wrong place. When I was removing a buck from the back of my truck (during shotgun) to be checked, the tag holder I had pinned to it's ear came off. They gave me shit about the tag not being on it when I got it to the scale to be weighed. It was on the ground in back of my truck. I was like "are you kidding me right now?"..... I get grief because I dropped the tag, but the dudes who drive though this same WMA at night jacking deer, permanently attaching wooden make shift stands to the trees within eye-shot of roads through this WMA, dudes coming in at like 3:00 AM when the WMA is posted that it doesn't open until 30 min before sunrise, nope, that's all fine. Makes it hard to take them seriously.

Poaching is a problem because the EPOs don't treat it as one. That's not a mark on the individual officers so much as it is leadership. EPO(s) want to work bankers and I'm sorry but during hunting season, that won't get the job done.
 
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