Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

drgrant said:
Broad must be 110 by now... she sponsors most of this crap
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So.....I guess what you are saying is that my having made the effort to contact this Senator and respectfully request that she at least consider the sincere opinions of individuals who oppose proposed legislation as blatantly unreasonable and unconstitutional as that of the initial 4420 bill before voting on any future similar legislation was not necessarily the best employment of my time.

At the very least I can take a modicum of comfort from the fact that my method of contacting her was not by actual paper letter so at least my action was not directly responsible for the cutting down of any trees...........but I suspect that my email format may have indeed severely inconvenienced a uncounted number of electrons.......and for that oversight on my part I truly do feel a deep sense of profound regret....... oh look.....something shinny......
 
SIGNES said:
Bruen didn't toss out 'every restriction they wanted'. The current law under a Class A LTC (now all LTC's thanks to Bruen) is still loaded with legal traps. Bruen removed the mechanisms for denying without objective cause. It alluded to other fixes (common use test) but it didn't fix them.

Caetano was about stun guns. (it also codified some of the obvious right to defend yourself) but it didn't change gun laws.

Your point about how they buckled under pressure rather than go to trial when 'may issue' got challenged is instructive. They were artfully avoiding having rights established by case law from MA. It's arguable that this same 'avoid the courts, get away with enforcement by intimidation' is why 4420 died. It painted multiple legal targets on the legislative back. Reminding them of this was a large part of GOALs and other's strategy in fighting it.

Now, do you think that any GOAL negotiated compromise is going to help them continue the game of tangled legal traps to rule by intimidation and press release or do you think it'll remove some of those traps, give the people teeth if a case is filed?

The more people we win over by taking them shooting, encouraging to get their permits, discover the self evident truth that self defense is a human right, and not acting like lunatics that make them more afraid, the more, in the long term, the arc bends to freedom.

Join more clubs, shoot, make more friends. Bring more guests, don't confuse the issue with immediately alienating 'hot buttons'. If they believe <insert name of group you're bigoted against> folks should all get a pony, don't fight 'em. Get them to enjoy being in the 10 ring enough to vote to keep their rights.

Absolutism is pushing a short term win at the expense of generational freedom.
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You sir are deficient in comprehension.
I didn't state Bruen tossed out every restriction.
I stated that "with the publishing of Bruen they simply tossed out every restriction they always wanted"
They being the state and their action being the tossing out of every restriction they, the state, always wanted.
I see that I should have included a comma and clauses explaining who I meant by they in order to not lose the reader.
As far as Cataeno, you need to do a shit ton of reading if you think that the only arms protected are firearms or that protection of one class of arms is greater, or lessor, than that of others under the second.
Miller, McDonald, Cataeno and Bruen are cases on arms in general even though they answer questions on a specific class of arms individually.
Read Heller where it discusses the meaning of the word arms in the 2nd. I think you'll find that you are quite mistaken that Cataeno is only about stun guns.
And go back and look at where in Mass law stun guns are controlled - in firearms legislation.
What license allows one to carry a stun gun? A firearms license.
So, my answer to your question was correct even if you don't like or understand it.
 
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Path-Finder said:
I have to ask. What exactly prevents a state from ignoring a decision like Bruen? In the politically polarized America we live in now what prevents a state like Massachusetts from simply ignoring a "rogue" SCOTUS decision and enacting and enforcing a law?
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Well unless a state is planning on seceding from the nation, I would assume that it would be political suicide. If pushed too far criminal charges would likely be filed. They are doing it now but how far can the polarization go before the fed uphold its laws to the fullest extent in which they are written. It’s a balancing act that’s already near its tipping point and politicians are just pushing their narratives further and further to appeal to their increasingly radical base. Both left and right. Strange times
 
Emmeriaa said:
Well unless a state is planning on seceding from the nation, I would assume that it would be political suicide. If pushed too far criminal charges would likely be filed. They are doing it now but how far can the polarization go before the fed uphold its laws to the fullest extent in which they are written. It’s a balancing act that’s already near its tipping point and politicians are just pushing their narratives further and further to appeal to their increasingly radical base. Both left and right. Strange times
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I can't see a federal government that won't even enforce its own immigration laws deciding to pursue legal action against a state that chooses to ignore firearms laws.
 
Harry Christopher said:
It has been said that as one gets older, they have a desire to simplify their daily existence and cast aside what they now consider superfluous "stuff" surplus to the requirements of sustaining everyday life as they wish it now to be. This "stuff" consists of not just the physical things lying around the basement and garage but, perhaps more importantly, opinions that one held previously that no longer stand the test of close inspection in view of where we are as a society today. After you have been around the block and been towed several times, one develops a more nuanced appreciation and understanding of how societal organizations really function in the wild and what exactly your part entails as a member of this social cohort.

The political hot button issues of pro-choice vs no pro-choice, an individual's choice of what gender of person to fall in love with, one's choice of what, if any religious beliefs they hold and many more opinion driven issues have really palled in importance to my list of what is critical to my continued survival in a world where the age-old touchstones no longer seem to emanate with the same clearly defined value and relevance that they once did.

At this late stage of my life the ability to provide safety and security for me and mine has ascended to the top of my daily to do list and everything else has become just details at best and irrelevant at worst. A person who is gay is not a threat to my continuing to live unless he or she have a weapon in hand that is capable of infliction of death or grievous bodily injury to myself or my loved ones and they have the ability, opportunity and jeopardy to bring that threat to fruition. Their sexual orientation is completely irrelevant to my ability to survive the encounter.

What is relevant in this instance is whether or not I have been denied the ability to formulate my own informed decision regarding if I wish to avail myself of access to arms to protect the family entity or whether due to pernicious legislative mandates I have been denied that ability as a result of slavish legislative dogmatic political adherence to the advance of whatever that days' party narrative happens to be.

I don't care if an individual chooses to sacrifice small furry animals in wild unrestrained pagan rituals while dancing naked around a bonfire in the deep wooded precincts of the Back of Beyond...just as long as they are not my animals or in my woods. What I do care about is having the legal ability to choose how I wish to address the family units' well-being without interference from individuals who in all likelihood have never come face to face with a situation which demands their having to give serious consideration to the employment of their service weapon in order to adequately address a criminal threat against them.

In my attempt to simplify my own life I have discarded past social opinions and come to regard legislative attempts to disarm me to constitute nothing less than a concerted effort to cause irreparable harm to my family's well-being. As a direct result of this belief, I will support at the ballet box individuals who agree with my point of view that self-defense is in fact a human right as the GOAL poster says and all other hot button issues are irrelevant to me and mine. In short, I have evolved into a 2A All The Way sort of cranky old man.....and I can live with that.
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Well said but pretty narrow minded to think that someone/something isn't a threat now wont be tomorrow. Unless you're that old and you don't plan on being around much longer you better tidy up your kitchen. Those things you say aren't a threat to you are actively thinking of ways to become one.
 
Path-Finder said:
I have to ask. What exactly prevents a state from ignoring a decision like Bruen? In the politically polarized America we live in now what prevents a state like Massachusetts from simply ignoring a "rogue" SCOTUS decision and enacting and enforcing a law?
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Well, in Little Rock, Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne.

1690799163745.png
 
Matt_SERE said:
GOAL is a lobbying organization. COMM2A is a civil rights organization. Not the same. Both needed terribly in MA. Thankfully they are here, on NES and in MA, fighting for us.
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I just re-upped my donations for the year to both of them. Encourage all to do the same. 100% agree that both kinds of action are needed.
 
fencer said:
Well, in Little Rock, Eisenhower sent in the 101st Airborne.

View attachment 779914
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Of course it's the President that is the prime motivator of any enforcement action. And he swore to uphold the Constitution. What do you think he'll do? Right, nothing.

I'm ok with politicians disagreeing with SCOTUS, as long as they follow it with "but the have the final word and we must follow what they say the law says" Calling them rouge and actively working against one of their rulings is treason.
 
42! said:
Calling them rouge and actively working against one of their rulings is treason.
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No it's not. Not to get pedantic, but it's just not. Treason has a very specific definition, and it's not what you're describing. Pet peeve: it's a word that gets thrown around A LOT on the internet, but with no real understanding of what it is.

MAYBE what you're describing is sedition. More likely you're describing simple bad manners. The men who founded our country meant for things like this to be dealt with at the ballot box, not in the courtroom.
 
Picton said:
No it's not. Not to get pedantic, but it's just not. Treason has a very specific definition, and it's not what you're describing. Pet peeve: it's a word that gets thrown around A LOT on the internet, but with no real understanding of what it is.

MAYBE what you're describing is sedition. More likely you're describing simple bad manners. The men who founded our country meant for things like this to be dealt with at the ballot box, not in the courtroom.
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Saying "Not to get pedantic" just mean that you know you are being pedantic. Not everything posted is a legal cite. [wink]
 
42! said:
Saying "Not to get pedantic" just mean that you know you are being pedantic. Not everything posted is a legal cite. [wink]
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Lol, then you're just being a blowhard?

I mean, words have meaning. Right? If it's treason, it's treason. If it's not, it's not. I don't like loaded, propagandistic terms, no matter which side is using them.
 
Path-Finder said:
I have to ask. What exactly prevents a state from ignoring a decision like Bruen? In the politically polarized America we live in now what prevents a state like Massachusetts from simply ignoring a "rogue" SCOTUS decision and enacting and enforcing a law?
Click to expand...
law.justia.com

The Contempt Power

, of the US Constitution: Analysis and Interpretation
law.justia.com law.justia.com

law.cornell.edu/wex/contempt_of_court
 
Roadglide said:
Well said but pretty narrow minded to think that someone/something isn't a threat now wont be tomorrow. Unless you're that old and you don't plan on being around much longer you better tidy up your kitchen. Those things you say aren't a threat to you are actively thinking of ways to become one.
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I think that every person who is capable of fogging up a mirror placed beneath their nose harbors their own inner fears and demons swirling around the further reaches of their minds that tend to make their presence known usually in the wee dark hours of the night when you wake up covered in sweat and anxiously gazing around the room asking yourself was that just a bad dream or a dark harbinger of what my immediate future has in store for me.

Mark Twain once said, "I have had a lot of worries in my life, most of which have never happened". The past 7 decades of knocking about this ephemeral construct we call life has taught me that tilting at windmills may not in fact be the best temporal expenditure one can make from a return-on-investment perspective. My reordering of priorities and concerns includes a systematic evaluation of what are the real possibilities with immediate negative connotations should they come to pass that may require being addressed and what are essentially just idle deleterious musings that actually bear little to no tangible importance in the grand scheme of my daily existence.

I suppose my choosing to conduct my daily affairs while concealed carrying when I believe the circumstances dictate that is a prudent thing to do may in fact be nothing more than a firsthand manifestation of the old saying that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't following you.

As a result of a mis-spent youth I found myself leading armed men into adventurous circumstances with uncertain outcomes. This brief period of being at the tip of the spear as it were produced a clarity of thought and observation unclouded by the intrusion of idle meanderings. It introduced me to the reality....worts and all...... that is the actual world as it exists and helped to concentrate my awareness that despite clicking my heels together I was not going to be able to return to Kansas riding on the back of a passing unicorn while spreading pixie dust in my wake.

Every human being has their own fears and concerns that battle for pride of place in their hearts and minds. I have taken council of my own fears and concerns and undertaken such remedial action as I deem prudent and am able to do so in light of the resources I have at hand to draw upon. I set forth each day with a smile on my lips, a song in my heart and a bulge in my trousers from the presence of a small semi-automatic pistol with the realization that a walk thru the ocean of most men's soul would hardly get your feet wet..........and I am at peace with that knowledge.
 
Path-Finder said:
I have to ask. What exactly prevents a state from ignoring a decision like Bruen? In the politically polarized America we live in now what prevents a state like Massachusetts from simply ignoring a "rogue" SCOTUS decision and enacting and enforcing a law?
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It's not the state it's the people in the state. I maintain that there is no duty to obey an unjust law. We put people on trial and executed them in 1946 for doing just that. Our society isn't based on the whims of a fickle mob because if it were, the people placating the fickle mob would begin to realize that even they are not immune to the mob.
 
Path-Finder said:
I have to ask. What exactly prevents a state from ignoring a decision like Bruen? In the politically polarized America we live in now what prevents a state like Massachusetts from simply ignoring a "rogue" SCOTUS decision and enacting and enforcing a law?
Click to expand...

Well, after the Democrat Governor of Arkansas actively ignored the Brown vs Board of Education ruling by blocking schools with the national guard, President Eisenhower activated the Arkansas NG and brought in the 101st Airborne to enforce the SCOTUS ruling.

I don’t see our current administration standing up for our system of government like that, unfortunately. Especially when it’s not just the states, but also the executive branch itself who is trying to ignore SCOTUS rulings.
 
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Harry Christopher said:
I think that every person who is capable of fogging up a mirror placed beneath their nose harbors their own inner fears and demons swirling around the further reaches of their minds that tend to make their presence known usually in the wee dark hours of the night when you wake up covered in sweat and anxiously gazing around the room asking yourself was that just a bad dream or a dark harbinger of what my immediate future has in store for me.

Mark Twain once said, "I have had a lot of worries in my life, most of which have never happened". The past 7 decades of knocking about this ephemeral construct we call life has taught me that tilting at windmills may not in fact be the best temporal expenditure one can make from a return-on-investment perspective. My reordering of priorities and concerns includes a systematic evaluation of what are the real possibilities with immediate negative connotations should they come to pass that may require being addressed and what are essentially just idle deleterious musings that actually bear little to no tangible importance in the grand scheme of my daily existence.

I suppose my choosing to conduct my daily affairs while concealed carrying when I believe the circumstances dictate that is a prudent thing to do may in fact be nothing more than a firsthand manifestation of the old saying that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't following you.

As a result of a mis-spent youth I found myself leading armed men into adventurous circumstances with uncertain outcomes. This brief period of being at the tip of the spear as it were produced a clarity of thought and observation unclouded by the intrusion of idle meanderings. It introduced me to the reality....worts and all...... that is the actual world as it exists and helped to concentrate my awareness that despite clicking my heels together I was not going to be able to return to Kansas riding on the back of a passing unicorn while spreading pixie dust in my wake.

Every human being has their own fears and concerns that battle for pride of place in their hearts and minds. I have taken council of my own fears and concerns and undertaken such remedial action as I deem prudent and am able to do so in light of the resources I have at hand to draw upon. I set forth each day with a smile on my lips, a song in my heart and a bulge in my trousers from the presence of a small semi-automatic pistol with the realization that a walk thru the ocean of most men's soul would hardly get your feet wet..........and I am at peace with that knowledge.
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Your choice. I choose to be more cautious of the world around me.
 
Jason Flare said:
Nothing.
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1690811488854.png

This essentially sums up where we are these days pursuant to politicians freely ignoring any counter opinions that don't reinforce and advance their chosen narrative despite their legislative edicts being blatantly unconstitutional in light of the supposed law of the land. They know that legislation such as 4420 will not stand a close judicial examination in light of recent decided case law but they also know that they will incur no legal penalty for enactment of such defective legislation in the first place and the litigational struggle to overturn this sort of legislation will require a notable expenditure of time and money. This is just another example of the process itself being the punishment.
 
The Ware Police Chief gets it.
1690813856568.png

Ware Police Department​


UPDATE ON HD 4420, AN ACT MODERNIZING FIREARMS LAWS:

After a series of “closed-door meetings”, the House has slithered away from its plan to smuggle the anti-gun Bill under our noses this summer, resetting their sights on the fall session and hoping that the concerns of their Constituents will fade away with the passing of time.
However, the Senate has now decreed that it is also “intending to do something” about gun control by taking matters into its own hands and crafting a SECOND potentially nefarious and unjust Bill.

Remain vigilant! We cannot allow partisan politics and corrupt bureaucracies to curb-stomp the liberties that generations before us fought so hard to preserve. As we’ve seen, our collective voices can bring about real change and compel the House and the Senate to prioritize the will of the Commonwealth over anything else.
Let us come together as a true Constitutional Republic and show our representatives, who are bound to uphold the rules established in that Constitution, that we will not rest until this nauseating Bill is annihilated before it is enacted into law.

While we recognize the importance of addressing gun violence and ensuring public safety, it is essential to do so without infringing upon the rights of law-abiding citizens. Instead of jeopardizing the Constitutional rights of responsible gun owners, we urge Congress to pursue solutions that target the root causes of violence, such as improving access to mental health services, reshaping and healing our societal infrastructure, and preventing repeat offenders from walking the streets with utter impunity.
Massachusetts is the proud birthplace of a united national resistance, and considering that those in power have no shame in publicly proclaiming their great wish for this Bill to become the model for every State in the Nation, the time to act is now.

Therefore, we encourage all Citizens of the Commonwealth who value their Constitutional rights to join us and persist in voicing their concerns to their elected representatives. Here are some suggestions on how you can proceed to make a difference:
1. Continue Contacting Your Representatives: Reach out to your Members of Congress via phone, email, or social media. Don’t relent! Express your concerns about the anti-gun bill and stress the urgency of addressing this critical issue. Personalized messages have a more significant impact, so share your personal experiences or thoughts on why this Bill troubles you.
2. Utilize Social Media: Leverage the power of social media to raise awareness and mobilize others who share your concerns. Use appropriate hashtags and encourage respectful discussions with friends and followers about joining the cause and the importance of protecting our Constitutional rights. Social media can be a powerful tool to raise awareness and generate support.
3. Encourage Others to Get Involved: Talk to your friends, family, colleagues, and neighbors about the impact of this issue and inspire them to make their voices heard. A collective effort is more likely to bring about meaningful change.

We firmly believe that safeguarding our communities and upholding our Constitutional Rights are not mutually exclusive goals. By continuing to oppose the anti-gun Bill and advocating for proper solutions, we can make a lasting impact on public safety without infringing upon the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Let us join together to defend our Second Amendment rights and protect the Freedom that defines our Nation!

Thank you for your attention and active participation.

ENSE PETIT PLACIDAM SUB LIBERTATE QUIETEM
"By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty."

*Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the Ware Police Department and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the Town of Ware or any entities they represent.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
The Ware Police Chief gets it.
View attachment 779986

Ware Police Department​


UPDATE ON HD 4420, AN ACT MODERNIZING FIREARMS LAWS:

After a series of “closed-door meetings”, the House has slithered away from its plan to smuggle the anti-gun Bill under our noses this summer, resetting their sights on the fall session and hoping that the concerns of their Constituents will fade away with the passing of time.
However, the Senate has now decreed that it is also “intending to do something” about gun control by taking matters into its own hands and crafting a SECOND potentially nefarious and unjust Bill.

Remain vigilant! We cannot allow partisan politics and corrupt bureaucracies to curb-stomp the liberties that generations before us fought so hard to preserve. As we’ve seen, our collective voices can bring about real change and compel the House and the Senate to prioritize the will of the Commonwealth over anything else.
Let us come together as a true Constitutional Republic and show our representatives, who are bound to uphold the rules established in that Constitution, that we will not rest until this nauseating Bill is annihilated before it is enacted into law.

While we recognize the importance of addressing gun violence and ensuring public safety, it is essential to do so without infringing upon the rights of law-abiding citizens. Instead of jeopardizing the Constitutional rights of responsible gun owners, we urge Congress to pursue solutions that target the root causes of violence, such as improving access to mental health services, reshaping and healing our societal infrastructure, and preventing repeat offenders from walking the streets with utter impunity.
Massachusetts is the proud birthplace of a united national resistance, and considering that those in power have no shame in publicly proclaiming their great wish for this Bill to become the model for every State in the Nation, the time to act is now.

Therefore, we encourage all Citizens of the Commonwealth who value their Constitutional rights to join us and persist in voicing their concerns to their elected representatives. Here are some suggestions on how you can proceed to make a difference:
1. Continue Contacting Your Representatives: Reach out to your Members of Congress via phone, email, or social media. Don’t relent! Express your concerns about the anti-gun bill and stress the urgency of addressing this critical issue. Personalized messages have a more significant impact, so share your personal experiences or thoughts on why this Bill troubles you.
2. Utilize Social Media: Leverage the power of social media to raise awareness and mobilize others who share your concerns. Use appropriate hashtags and encourage respectful discussions with friends and followers about joining the cause and the importance of protecting our Constitutional rights. Social media can be a powerful tool to raise awareness and generate support.
3. Encourage Others to Get Involved: Talk to your friends, family, colleagues, and neighbors about the impact of this issue and inspire them to make their voices heard. A collective effort is more likely to bring about meaningful change.

We firmly believe that safeguarding our communities and upholding our Constitutional Rights are not mutually exclusive goals. By continuing to oppose the anti-gun Bill and advocating for proper solutions, we can make a lasting impact on public safety without infringing upon the rights of law-abiding citizens.

Let us join together to defend our Second Amendment rights and protect the Freedom that defines our Nation!

Thank you for your attention and active participation.

ENSE PETIT PLACIDAM SUB LIBERTATE QUIETEM
"By the sword we seek peace, but peace only under liberty."

*Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this post are those of the Ware Police Department and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of the Town of Ware or any entities they represent.
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Nice job Ware! Honestly, I think some of that text was lifted from the GOAL website, which is a major plus in my mind!
 

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