Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

[CatSnoutSoup]

Can't say I'm surprised when their initial Lamont filing pitches the same childish fit as in Campbell.

The plaintiffs, whether having used polemic language or not, don't need to apologize for the shitty ruling here from Judge Janet Bond Arterton. It is trash document where to advance her own agenda she blatantly ascribes a warped meaning to the plain language of Heller and Bruen.

Also this is just a motion for preliminary injunction and yet she wrote as if the case is done and dusted. If NAGR has the dough they might as well appeal this denial and if needed try and taking it all the way to an emergency hearing with SCOTUS, because they are not going to have a better outcome at trail unless someone puts a pretrial constitutional foot in the judge's ass.

This 79 year old crone, who was scheduled to go on senior inactive status in October, probably want's her big day for gun control before becoming a paid court lounge lizard.

Having seen this - I retract the aspersions I pointed towards Atty Couture when NAGR v Campbell first came through. It would appear this is the fault of NAGR, not him.

I am stilling going to send them money vs. Campbell.

 

[AmeriKHAN]

After the way the NAGR v. Campbell preliminary injunction hearing went, I don’t think anyone believes there’ll be a quick injunction at this point. Not surprised that this happened in NAGR v. Lamont either. SCOTUS is our only hope.

For God sake we need start using US V. Miller 1939 as precedent rather than going "muh AR15 and STANAG". We have the tools to fight these violations but we don't use them.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

For God sake we need start using US V. Miller 1939 as precedent rather than going "muh AR15 and STANAG". We have the tools to fight these violations but we don't use them.

Well in the Connecticut case discussed just above the judge cites Miller at least twelve times in support of her argument that "assault weapons" are not protected by 2A.

Transcript is here (search by typing CTRL+F then type Miller).

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.151109/gov.uscourts.ctd.151109.85.0.pdf

Your rights mean nothing to these people and plain language in law is something to be perverted as a means to an end.

 

[AmeriKHAN]

Well in the Connecticut case discussed just above the judge cites Miller at least twelve times in support of her argument that "assault weapons" are not protected by 2A.

Transcript is here (search by typing CTRL+F then type Miller).

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ctd.151109/gov.uscourts.ctd.151109.85.0.pdf

Your rights mean nothing to these people and plain language in law is something to be perverted as a means to an end.

Wallahi (by God) useless lawyers need to understand a challenge the fact that AWBs don't fall under SBS/SBRs and/or Full autos. You can't just ban a firearm simply upon it's basic functionality. Allah hu ma'naa! (God be with you!)

 

[SIGNES]

Circuit split, here we come!!

Just say "No!" to a legislature with an overwhelming majority that apposes your every belief rather than engage the process to shape legislation to be less onerous. Everything will be all better when the courts weigh in. Not.

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

At GOAL HQ now lots of signs and stickers left. Jim Wallace is running the operation so stop in and say hi. Ask any questions you have and grab a sign.

maybe drop off a small donation if you could swing it.

As Jim agreed, HD4420 will be back around in the fall with a vengeance, and keeping people engaged is important.

 

[SteelShooter]

At GOAL HQ now lots of signs and stickers left. Jim Wallace is running the operation so stop in and say hi. Ask any questions you have and grab a sign.

maybe drop off a small donation if you could swing it.

As Jim agreed, HD4420 will be back around in the fall with a vengeance, and keeping people engaged is important.

I saw a sign here today in Lynn, never expected that.

 

[Tallahassee]

At GOAL HQ now lots of signs and stickers left. Jim Wallace is running the operation so stop in and say hi. Ask any questions you have and grab a sign.

maybe drop off a small donation if you could swing it.

As Jim agreed, HD4420 will be back around in the fall with a vengeance, and keeping people engaged is important.

Saw a sign in Pelham on my way to the big city of Orange this morning.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

Driving up north to Randolph, I was passing through Sharon and saw the sign on Main St.
I always thought Sharon was a mini-Brookline: full of anti-2A bigots. It's good to be proven wrong.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

For God sake we need start using US V. Miller 1939 as precedent rather than going "muh AR15 and STANAG". We have the tools to fight these violations but we don't use them.

IANAL, but I don’t understand why we can’t use the Enforcement Acts of 1870 and 1871 to go after these liberals that are doing everything possible to deprive us of our civil rights.

“In its first effort to counteract such use of violence and intimidation, Congress passed the Enforcement Act of May 1870, which prohibited groups of people from banding together "or to go in disguise upon the public highways, or upon the premises of another" with the intention of violating citizens’ constitutional rights.”

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

IANAL, but I don’t understand why we can’t use the Enforcement Acts of 1870 and 1871 to go after these liberals that are doing everything possible to deprive us of our civil rights.

“In its first effort to counteract such use of violence and intimidation, Congress passed the Enforcement Act of May 1870, which prohibited groups of people from banding together "or to go in disguise upon the public highways, or upon the premises of another" with the intention of violating citizens’ constitutional rights.”

Weren't these ineffective when enacted to oppose the Klan's attacks on blacks because Democrat prosecutors sympathized with the Klan.

Can't imagine a prosecutor would bring charges when he himself would need to be among the defendants.

Same thing today as government and Every Town/Moms Demand Menopause are two arms of a globalist billionaire donor's cabal.



P.S.> Lovely Sunday afternoon folks. Oppose HD4420 by taking a new shooter to the range.

 

[SIGNES]

P.S.> Lovely Sunday afternoon folks. Oppose HD4420 by taking a new shooter to the range.

No matter where else we may disagree, the more we do this, make new shooters feel safe, welcome, have fun and get their permits, the better off we are. When there are roughly half a million LTC holders in MA, it's harder to keep our rights. It's a little worse than 10% MA residents with a firearms permit now. If it was 20% +?

Help 2 friends get their first permit and the whole problem starts to get a lot easier to solve.

Start with your spouses. (Even if they hate shooting it's just safer practice for them to have taken the class and have a permit if there are guns in the house.)

 

[Dench]

No matter where else we may disagree, the more we do this, make new shooters feel safe, welcome, have fun and get their permits, the better off we are. When there are roughly half a million LTC holders in MA, it's harder to keep our rights. It's a little worse than 10% MA residents with a firearms permit now. If it was 20% +?

Help 2 friends get their first permit and the whole problem starts to get a lot easier to solve.

Start with your spouses. (Even if they hate shooting it's just safer practice for them to have taken the class and have a permit if there are guns in the house.)

I like the mindset here, and I think it's probably mostly right.

However, I've never had good luck with it. I've brought some of my ultra liberal friends to the range. They ALL had a blast. But at the end of the day, they still don't think my guns should be legal.

A trip to the range may get the gears going but it's no cure. Most/all of these people have strong anti 2A opinions because of the social circles they are in. They either hold these beliefs because they are told they to, or they hold them because it's what they think their group expects them to hold. A trip to the range can't really change that, unfortunately. Might be the nose under the tent, but that's probably it.

There are also plenty of people who regularly go to the range who are de facto hard core anti 2A FUDDs. These are the chumps who write most of these garbage bills. Range time aint fixing them. See above.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Weren't these ineffective when enacted to oppose the Klan's attacks on blacks because Democrat prosecutors sympathized with the Klan.

Can't imagine a prosecutor would bring charges when he himself would need to be among the defendants.

Same thing today as government and Every Town/Moms Demand Menopause are two arms of a globalist billionaire donor's cabal.



P.S.> Lovely Sunday afternoon folks. Oppose HD4420 by taking a new shooter to the range.

If is good enough to charge Trump with it ought to be good enough to charge our legislature with.

 

[hunt4riches]

Circuit split, here we come!!

So, this means the second amendment protects nothing. If it doesn't protect magazines over 10 rounds, then it does not protect magazines over 5 rounds, in which case it does not protect magazines at all. If it doesn't protect the magazines, then it does not protect the weapons they go in. By this logic, you have no right to own a semi auto, or a fixed magazine rifle, or a revolver, or a double barrel shotgun. They can restrict you to single-shot break-action firearms if they want. If at some point the USC steps in, they have to defend everything. To draw the line anywhere becomes the infringement as stated in the second amendment itself.

 

[SIGNES]

I like the mindset here, and I think it's probably mostly right.

However, I've never had good luck with it. I've brought some of my ultra liberal friends to the range. They ALL had a blast. But at the end of the day, they still don't think my guns should be legal.

A trip to the range may get the gears going but it's no cure. Most/all of these people have strong anti 2A opinions because of the social circles they are in. They either hold these beliefs because they are told they to, or they hold them because it's what they think their group expects them to hold. A trip to the range can't really change that, unfortunately. Might be the nose under the tent, but that's probably it.

There are also plenty of people who regularly go to the range who are de facto hard core anti 2A FUDDs. These are the chumps who write most of these garbage bills. Range time aint fixing them. See above.

Ok, so... it only sometimes works? Fine. But it sometimes works.

It's certainly better than not taking them to the range and just pissing them off. Also, nobody, and I mean nobody who goes to the range regularly who isn't being required to by a job is 'anti-2A'. They're invested with their money and their time. They may not be as invested as you but they're invested and, therefore, they can surely at least sometimes be galvanized against 4420 Mk II in the fall.

FFS, between "All or nothing." and "It's not worth some work". I can't keep track of which way this all goes wrong soonest.

 

[Dadstoys]

I like the mindset here, and I think it's probably mostly right.

However, I've never had good luck with it. I've brought some of my ultra liberal friends to the range. They ALL had a blast. But at the end of the day, they still don't think my guns should be legal.

A trip to the range may get the gears going but it's no cure. Most/all of these people have strong anti 2A opinions because of the social circles they are in. They either hold these beliefs because they are told they to, or they hold them because it's what they think their group expects them to hold. A trip to the range can't really change that, unfortunately. Might be the nose under the tent, but that's probably it.

There are also plenty of people who regularly go to the range who are de facto hard core anti 2A FUDDs. These are the chumps who write most of these garbage bills. Range time aint fixing them. See above.

They just haven't heard a window break in the middle of the night yet.

 

[Dench]

They just haven't heard a window break in the middle of the night yet.

That's true. None of them have had violent exposure yet

 

[drgrant]

I like the mindset here, and I think it's probably mostly right.

However, I've never had good luck with it. I've brought some of my ultra liberal friends to the range. They ALL had a blast. But at the end of the day, they still don't think my guns should be legal.

A trip to the range may get the gears going but it's no cure. Most/all of these people have strong anti 2A opinions because of the social circles they are in. They either hold these beliefs because they are told they to, or they hold them because it's what they think their group expects them to hold. A trip to the range can't really change that, unfortunately. Might be the nose under the tent, but that's probably it.

I have found that "taking people to the range" only works in terms of making a gun owner if the person already had a previoussly existing interest but never had the means or wherewithal to gett the first step. etc. Actually thats what it was like in my case. I didn't grow up with guns but I had a friend that owned them and I asked him if we could go shooting at some
point. There are plenty of people interested in guns but intimidated or dont have someone to help get them started. that's different than trying to convert some lost cause
anti moonbat.

There are also plenty of people who regularly go to the range who are de facto hard core anti 2A FUDDs. These are the chumps who write most of these garbage bills. Range time aint fixing them. See above.

Well, this part isn't really true, although I'm guessing you're just being facetious. Most of this shit is written by legal interns hired by anti gun confab type deals, think of a ambiguous gender student with a lisp that goes to some heavily liberal college and is taking law courses etc. Bloomberg et al basically have those "kids" write this shit, and then it might get reviewed by some other anti, then sent off to a legislator in an email or similar. iIf anyone here thinks that HD4220 was actually written by Day or one of his cohorts, I have a nice bridge to sell them. At most it got transcribed from a packet of shit someone sent them. These things are nearly all put up jobs, at least the stuff that gets traction. Now on the other hand you have someone like "beast lover" Linsky, who probably actually does write his own shitty bills, but its pretty obvious moost of his are about virtue signaling to his libtard constituents anyways...

 

[DispositionMatrix]

I have found that "taking people to the range" only works in terms of making a gun owner if the person already had a previoussly existing interest but never had the means or wherewithal to gett the first step. etc. Actually thats what it was like in my case. I didn't grow up with guns but I had a friend that owned them and I asked him if we could go shooting at some
point. There are plenty of people interested in guns but intimidated or dont have someone to help get them started. that's different than trying to convert some lost cause
anti moonbat.



Well, this part isn't really true, although I'm guessing you're just being facetious. Most of this shit is written by legal interns hired by anti gun confab type deals, think of a ambiguous gender student with a lisp that goes to some heavily liberal college and is taking law courses etc. Bloomberg et al basically have those "kids" write this shit, and then it might get reviewed by some other anti, then sent off to a legislator in an email or similar. iIf anyone here thinks that HD4220 was actually written by Day or one of his cohorts, I have a nice bridge to sell them. At most it got transcribed from a packet of shit someone sent them. These things are nearly all put up jobs, at least the stuff that gets traction. Now on the other hand you have someone like "beast lover" Linsky, who probably actually does write his own shitty bills, but its pretty obvious moost of his are about virtue signaling to his libtard constituents anyways...

Dench's sentence prior to that,

There are also plenty of people who regularly go to the range who are de facto hard core anti 2A FUDDs.

is entirely believable, though. I doubt one could even find a firearm forum, much less a range, that is not stocked with firearm prohibitionists. 2A supporters should discard the fiction that new shooters are going to be RKBA supporters by default.

 

[fshalor]

eh, my chief just had one of his detectives shot in the face by some 20Y.O. P.O.S. so, probably not the week to ask how he feels about guns, lol

Was that 20y.o. fallowing all current laws? Would this one have made it more illegal somehow to shoot someone in the face?

 

[Zappa]

I was driving on RT#109 Saturday, somewhere near the Medway/Milford line, where I saw a sign in front of a house that read "Stop HD 4420".

 

[rickflst]

One up in Granville on RTE 57

 

[BigAce74]

One of my neighbors has one here in Chicopee.

 

[freddieMA]

Perhaps the threat of the hidden language and actual intentions buried in 4420 has served to remind all citizens of good will that there is no guarantee that what we collectively see as our Constitutional civil rights is not necessarily an opinion shared by every person who is an elected official these days.

We are certainly not the first generation to fight for our 2A rights and based on what I see on both the state and federal level we will not be the last generation to fight against the industrial grade gaslighting that the so-called progressive left appears to be quite experienced at employing during the national discussion on this polarizing topic.

My hope is that our collective efforts may result in the window being open just enough to clear the noxious fumes of totalitarianism from the room so that future generations are able to enjoy the same 2A legal rights as our grandparents did. I know......I know it's just a dream.....but one has to start somewhere.......

if i'm right, it won't be only 2a rights you're fighting for.

it's the entirety of constitutional order itself.

 

[zork51]

I was driving on RT#109 Saturday, somewhere near the Medway/Milford line, where I saw a sign in front of a house that read "Stop HD 4420".

I have one on my lawn. My friend who lives near me got some from a gun shop and was giving them out.

 

[taken]

The signs are popping up all over Westfield too...

 

[Broc Tuah]

What approach are you guys taking with the Chiefs? Same as the legislators?

I ask them how they became chiefs if they never led a war party, they never touched an enemy soldier without killing him, they never captured an enemy soldier and they never stole an enemy soldier's horse.

 

[Harry Christopher]

if i'm right, it won't be only 2a rights you're fighting for.

it's the entirety of constitutional order itself.

I think that the idea is to subvert the constitutional order in its entirety and replace the historical governing precepts with whatever far left woke nonsense is currently in vogue at the moment. These elitists fully realize that the historical foundation of the Second Amendment was to both serve as a defensive mechanism for the remaining amendments as well as provide an actual buffer between the citizenry and a tyrannical government. That is why they are pressing so hard to disarm law-abiding citizens in an effort to reduce their ability to fight back against the Party's dictates.

The overall intention of the progressives strikes me as multi-generational in both depth and breadth. First remove the legal right to maintain private arms if one so chooses to do so. They realize that there is no real opportunity to change the mindset of people who presently own firearms and believe that choice is a Constitutionally protected right that they have. The second approach is more insidious in nature in as much as it involves the wholesale indoctrination of children thru educational mandates. Their idea is to teach children that wrong is right and is the new expected normality of today's society.

The Germans had an educational program that was quite successful in essentially turning out brainwashed children who bought into the Party's doctrine completely.......it was called the Hitler Youth. During the battles after the Normandy invasion, they fought in a Hitlerjugend Division and had a tendency to fight to the last boy (man). This is what they looked like in 1939:



There is a reason that 4420 talked about no training young people below age 15 how to safely manage firearms because they think that if they have not been properly introduced to safe firearms principals and guns in general by that age then the youth will be easier to convince that shooting is a bad thing to be involved in and they should avoid acquiring that knowledge at all costs. This lack of teaching about firearms in general nicely compliments the constant drumbeat of revisionist history that is being forced upon children of all ages in today's so called educational system.

The final goal is to have produced generations of young people who are completely ignorant of their country's history and their legal civil rights and obligations as citizens and thus will be easier for the Party to manipulate and control.

 

[apo537]

Get ready cause here it comes.
https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193...0M-HL66laTXHeHiyrzN0kMxgNmjSKp2LFQlIxc9oEummw

If this passes, which it probably will the second amendment in Ma will be destroyed

XXXXX HD4420 Sweeping gun control legislation proposed in Massachusetts appears to be stuck in the State House while continuing to draw vocal opposition from Second Amendment advocates.