Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

Broc said:
I always love the Reagan quotes when talking about freedom. The hypocrisy is pretty funny.
Click to expand...
What do you mean?? Full autos are too dangerous for our democracy and turning California permanently blue was great for our democracy! Reagan is good because...he just is okay? Where would we be as a nation without Bedtime for Bonzo?
 
freddieMA said:
this came across my twits feed this morning, this should generate a GOAL response.

edit: or our very own erudite wordsmith @Harry Christopher

commonwealthmagazine.org

We spearheaded state's 2014 gun law; new legislation can build on it

FOR NEARLY 10 years Massachusetts has been one of the states with the lowest rates of firearm deaths. Firearm deaths include homicides and suicides by
commonwealthmagazine.org commonwealthmagazine.org
Click to expand...

The general tone of this article is essentially what the 4420 supporters have been saying all along.....the proposed bill is about ghost guns and the safety........of course.......of the children. It was written by a recently retired professor Dr. Jack McDevitt and former House Speaker Robert DeLeo. Mr. DeLeo is noted for the fact that he managed to retain the speakership of the House from 2009-2020 and....unlike his 3 consecutive predecessors.....he was not arrested nor was he adjudicated a felon......in light of the House's history of past speakers no small feat in and of itself and worth taking note of.

The first point in the article that caught my eye was this:

"It would call for a statewide database of firearms used in crimes that would assist law enforcement agencies by identifying guns used in crimes in multiple communities".

I recalled previously reading about this claim and lo and behold I found the GOAL markup which addressed just this statement:

1692139429842.png
1692139476843.png

Please note in the second bullet point that 4420 does not give birth to this database......GOAL ALREADY DID SO IN THE 2014 LAW AND THE STATE DISBANDED IT WITHIN A YEAR. IF IT WAS DEEMED NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE IN 2014 TO KEEP RUNNING, WHY WOULD THEY CLAIM TODAY THAT IT IS A VALUABLE TOOL FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PUSH FOR ITS RESURECTION?

"It would require firearm training classes to require live fire as part of the training, a commonsense provision but one that does not currently exist in Massachusetts."

Again, GOAL has drilled down into the reality of this seemingly innocent requirement:

1692146184563.png

I became interested in just what were the factual foundational numbers for crime here in the Republic especially that which affected younger people. I spent several hours wading thru various reports and came up with the following information which is based upon numbers for the year 2020 which were published in 2023.

1692142639280.png

THERE IS NO DETERMINATION IF THE 2 SUICDE DEATHS INVOLVED FIREARMS LISTED HERE.

The estimated overall Republic population for 2020 was listed as 6,893,000 residents.

16% of that number were under age 15.....1,102.880.
40% were in the 15-44 age group....2,757,200.

1692146410635.png
ALMOST DONE

1692146988021.png

LAST ONE
1692147278812.png

So....what can one be led to think after going blind staring at all these small numbers?

On a daily basis if one subtracts the 46 deaths due to other causes, than of the remaining 141 daily deaths 98.6% are directly due to medical causes of some sort. These medical causes are not due to the accidental or intentional employment of firearms. As far as I am aware, the 4420 proposal DOES NOT ADDRESS THE ACTUAL CAUSES OF DEATH WHICH ARE MEDICAL IN NATURE AND NOT FIREARM RELATED.

In the 1-14 age range there were 0 deaths caused by a firearm in 2020 and 2 deaths listed as homicide. In the 15-24 age range there were 68 deaths caused by firearm and 59 of them were listed as homicide. For the age range of 1 to 24 there were a total of 61 homicides out of 68 listed as death by firearm. These deaths represent 32.8% of the 186 homicides listed for all age groups during 2020.

In the age group under 1 year old the 10 ranked causes of death are all medical in nature. In the 1-14 years old range there were 4 suicides and 2 homcides. In the 15- to 24-year-old age range there were 72 suicides and 59 homcides. The cause of death in the cases of suicide are not recorded.

If one spreads the age range out to include 1-44 years old, then the numbers expand to 142 deaths listed as caused by homicide and 272 deaths listed as caused by suicide with no instrument of death listed.

BOTTOM LINE

Yes......it is true that people do in fact die in the Republic over a range of all age groups on a daily basis.

Out of the listed cause of death suicide is one that could greatly benefit from some serious study and financial investment especially in the very vulnerable age range of 15-24 for children and 25-44 for adults.

Despite my best efforts to do so I was unable to discover any potential facets of the 4420 proposal that actually address the real causes of children's death and try to do something constructive about those causes.

The article referenced by freddieMA is just more of the mendacity and obfuscation that the Boston politicians have raised to the level of a new art form and enactment of this bill will NOT do anything positive for the children in spite of what they claim......but it would run the very real risk of victimizing all the inhabitants of the Republic and not just the people who wish to exercise their Constitutional civil rights.
 

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Harry Christopher said:
The general tone of this article is essentially what the 4420 supporters have been saying all along.....the proposed bill is about ghost guns and the safety........of course.......of the children. It was written by a recently retired professor Dr. Jack McDevitt and former House Speaker Robert DeLeo. Mr. DeLeo is noted for the fact that he managed to retain the speakership of the House from 2009-2020 and....unlike his 3 consecutive predecessors.....he was not arrested nor was he adjudicated a felon......in light of the House's history of past speakers no small feat in and of itself and worth taking note of.

The first point in the article that caught my eye was this:

"It would call for a statewide database of firearms used in crimes that would assist law enforcement agencies by identifying guns used in crimes in multiple communities".

I recalled previously reading about this claim and lo and behold I found the GOAL markup which addressed just this statement:

View attachment 785662
View attachment 785663

Please note in the second bullet point that 4420 does not give birth to this database......GOAL ALREADY DID SO IN THE 2014 LAW AND THE STATE DISBANDED IT WITHIN A YEAR. IF IT WAS DEEMED NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE IN 2014 TO KEEP RUNNING, WHY WOULD THEY CLAIM TODAY THAT IT IS A VALUABLE TOOL FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND PUSH FOR ITS RESURECTION?

"It would require firearm training classes to require live fire as part of the training, a commonsense provision but one that does not currently exist in Massachusetts."

Again, GOAL has drilled down into the reality of this seemingly innocent requirement:

View attachment 785694

I became interested in just what were the factual foundational numbers for crime here in the Republic especially that which affected younger people. I spent several hours wading thru various reports and came up with the following information which is based upon numbers for the year 2020 which were published in 2023.

View attachment 785679

THERE IS NO DETERMINATION IF THE 2 SUICDE DEATHS INVOLVED FIREARMS LISTED HERE.

The estimated overall Republic population for 2020 was listed as 6,893,000 residents.

16% of that number were under age 15.....1,102.880.
40% were in the 15-44 age group....2,757,200.

View attachment 785696
ALMOST DONE

View attachment 785700

LAST ONE
View attachment 785701

So....what can one be led to think after going blind staring at all these small numbers?

On a daily basis if one subtracts the 46 deaths due to other causes, than of the remaining 141 daily deaths 98.6% are directly due to medical causes of some sort. These medical causes are not due to the accidental or intentional employment of firearms. As far as I am aware, the 4420 proposal DOES NOT ADDRESS THE ACTUAL CAUSES OF DEATH WHICH ARE MEDICAL IN NATURE AND NOT FIREARM RELATED.

In the 1-14 age range there were 0 deaths caused by a firearm in 2020 and 2 deaths listed as homicide. In the 15-24 age range there were 68 deaths caused by firearm and 59 of them were listed as homicide. For the age range of 1 to 24 there were a total of 61 homicides out of 68 listed as death by firearm. These deaths represent 32.8% of the 186 homicides listed for all age groups during 2020.

In the age group under 1 year old the 10 ranked causes of death are all medical in nature. In the 1-14 years old range there were 4 suicides and 2 homcides. In the 15- to 24-year-old age range there were 72 suicides and 59 homcides. The cause of death in the cases of suicide are not recorded.

If one spreads the age range out to include 1-44 years old, then the numbers expand to 142 deaths listed as caused by homicide and 272 deaths listed as caused by suicide with no instrument of death listed.

BOTTOM LINE

Yes......it is true that people do in fact die in the Republic over a range of all age groups on a daily basis.

Out of the listed cause of death suicide is one that could greatly benefit from some serious study and financial investment especially in the very vulnerable age range of 15-24 for children and 25-44 for adults.

Despite my best efforts to do so I was unable to discover any potential facets of the 4420 proposal that actually address the real causes of children's death and try to do something constructive about those causes.

The article referenced by freddieMA is just more of the mendacity and obfuscation that the Boston politicians have raised to the level of a new art form and enactment of this bill will NOT do anything positive for the children in spite of what they claim......but it would run the very real risk of victimizing all the inhabitants of the Republic and not just the people who wish to exercise their Constitutional civil rights.
Click to expand...
post this up on commonwealth!

the problem is that everyone hears percentages of small numbers. what they need to hear is absolutes, and how much of this is gang violence that politicians are unable or unwilling to attack, so they fog us with their nonsense.
 
freddieMA said:
post this up on commonwealth!

the problem is that everyone hears percentages of small numbers. what they need to hear is absolutes, and how much of this is gang violence that politicians are unable or unwilling to attack, so they fog us with their nonsense.
Click to expand...

Our Constitutional civil rights........as threadbare as they appear these days......are the last remaining defense against a well-funded and concerted effort to completely destroy any remaining vestiges of what this country was originally founded upon.

While it admittedly may seem at times like we are uselessly flailing against a political process that is completely devoid of facts and is predicated entirely on smoke and mirrors, the actual on the ground results of this advancing woke encroachment are real and are clearly visible on a daily basis all over this country today.

I do not have any desire to try to live in the dystopian nightmare that is the end goal of the progressive left-wing liberals, and neither do members of our extended family.

All we have left available to us is to continue the struggle to the best of our abilities. Whatever the outcome turns out to be....... at least we can say that we tried.........which is more than the people who ignored the existence and the reality of the problem in the first place will be able to say.


1692184179422.png 1692184234145.png
 
Harry Christopher said:
Our Constitutional civil rights........as threadbare as they appear these days......are the last remaining defense against a well-funded and concerted effort to completely destroy any remaining vestiges of what this country was originally founded upon.

While it admittedly may seem at times like we are uselessly flailing against a political process that is completely devoid of facts and is predicated entirely on smoke and mirrors, the actual on the ground results of this advancing woke encroachment are real and are clearly visible on a daily basis all over this country today.

I do not have any desire to try to live in the dystopian nightmare that is the end goal of the progressive left-wing liberals, and neither do members of our extended family.

All we have left available to us is to continue the struggle to the best of our abilities. Whatever the outcome turns out to be....... at least we can say that we tried.........which is more than the people who ignored the existence and the reality of the problem in the first place will be able to say.


View attachment 785764 View attachment 785766
Click to expand...
it will fail, not in a timeframe we'd be happy with, but the economic and social instability that the left is driving will eventually come to a close.

a project that started with the best of intentions will end as they usually do, with people who think they are a little more equal than others and can tell everyone else how they must live. it's not hyperbole to suggest major urban cities are going to see resets in the coming decade, one good recession or another round of covid and we're going to see fiscal failures.

the attacks on the energy system with renewables, the attacks on mobility via cars, the attack on self defense via guns, the attacks on capitalism with new taxes, the attacks on children through schools, the attacks on housing / food system via zoning, the attacks on cost of living via inflation, the staggering costs of healthcare ...

any one of which can be fatal to a cause. taken together, the implosion will be a sight to behold.

i don't know what comes next, but the american experiment is one of constant evolution. i think as you do, that a return to a more constitutional order is necessary so that we can all live our own lives as we see fit.
 
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freddieMA said:
it will fail, not in a timeframe we'd be happy with, but the economic and social instability that the left is driving will eventually come to a close.

a project that started with the best of intentions will end as they usually do, with people who think they are a little equal than others and can tell everyone else how they must live. it's not hyperbole to suggest major urban cities are going to see resets in the coming decade, one good recession or another round of covid and we're going to see fiscal failures.

the attacks on the energy system with renewables, the attacks on mobility via cars, the attack on self defense via guns, the attacks on capitalism with new taxes, the attacks on children through schools, the attacks on housing / food system via zoning, the attacks cost of living via inflation, the staggering costs of healthcare ...

any one of which can be fatal to a cause. taken together, the implosion will be a sight to behold.

i don't know what comes next, but the american experiment is one of constant evolution. i think as you do, that a return to a more constitutional order is necessary so that we can all live our own lives as we see fit.
Click to expand...

So.....other than that.....what is the downside to burning the country and its long established and deeply ingrained societal beliefs down to the ground? (Insert sarcasm here)

Well......if nothing else......we certainly won't lack for entertainment on a grand scale never previously considered as being possible in a so-called advanced first world nation.

In an effort to attempt to keep current with the pronoun sociological school of current acceptable thought..........my pronouns are.......cynical realist.

Note to self: remember to stop at farm store when out and about doing errands and pick up 2 more coils of razor wire for the compound perimeter.

1692189003528.png 1692189065038.png
 
freddieMA said:
i have a very small, curated twitter feed, from across the political spectrum.

i see things like this coming across my feed literally every day. this references alvin bragg and nyc
View attachment 785772
Click to expand...

I have no idea who the following author is, but I suspect that he will shortly be standing in line at the customer service counter of life angrily demanding his money back for a defective purchase.

1692189503739.png
 
freddieMA said:
i have a very small, curated twitter feed, from across the political spectrum.

i see things like this coming across my feed literally every day. this references alvin bragg and nyc
View attachment 785772
Click to expand...

I think some of these vote blue no matter who people are starting to realize they were given a bad bill of goods. Sadly for many of these people it's too late to do anything because increases in crime are going to decimate real estate values.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
I think some of these vote blue no matter who people are starting to realize they were given a bad bill of goods. Sadly for many of these people it's too late to do anything because increases in crime are going to decimate real estate values.
Click to expand...
At some point, even the moderate and center left have to look at SF, NYC, LA, etc and see the democrat plan for making America one big liberal cesspool. I fear the democrats have such a string hold on the voting system that return to normalcy won't happen in my lifetime
 
bigbravehog said:
At some point, even the moderate and center left have to look at SF, NYC, LA, etc and see the democrat plan for making America one big liberal cesspool. I fear the democrats have such a string hold on the voting system that return to normalcy won't happen in my lifetime
Click to expand...

I think you're missing the big picture here. Some of these people and it gets interesting because there is an intersection of the wealthy elites and the far far left (ie marxists), they want to destabilize the system to make it crash. The super wealthy will profit on either the way up or the way down. They openly tolerate the an-coms, socialists and marxists because there is a profit angle. These 'activists' on the left are essentially monumentally naive optimists who are being played like a grand piano by people with immense wealth as a way to squeeze every last penny in existence into their own pockets. All of this DEI/ESG etc is just corporate sloganeering by the people in charge. The marxists think "yay we're winning", the boardroom says "it's good for business".

The people at least to me to keep a close eye on are these super wealthy people. I'm not even talking millionaires here. I'm talking about people who can buy a yacht and put in on their master card like it's a business lunch. That's the puppet master class.

I would like to point out that this is not strictly a democrat problem. There are plenty of republicans who would love to see the whole system crash for some quick cash for themselves and their families.
 
bigbravehog said:
At some point, even the moderate and center left have to look at SF, NYC, LA, etc and see the democrat plan for making America one big liberal cesspool. I fear the democrats have such a string hold on the voting system that return to normalcy won't happen in my lifetime
Click to expand...
i continue to think that a center right, small business oriented message would resonate, taking the best ideas from both sides of the spectrum.

if only someone would or could make it.
 
bigbravehog said:
At some point, even the moderate and center left have to look at SF, NYC, LA, etc and see the democrat plan for making America one big liberal cesspool. I fear the democrats have such a string hold on the voting system that return to normalcy won't happen in my lifetime
Click to expand...

My fear is that what we are seeing taking place on a daily basis from one end of the country to the other end is in fact considered the new normal these days. What is even more distressing is that half the population appears to be comfortable with this country's direction and see nothing at all to be alarmed about.

I am so old that there are trees younger than I am, but that fact does not diminish my belief that a person has to have some sort of well-developed inner moral compass that helps them navigate thru turbulent times when all the old social signposts have been sweep away in the rising tide of wokness.

You can draw comfort from the fact that I have observed over these last 7 decades that a walk thru the ocean of most men's soul will hardly get your feet wet........and I rather doubt that situation will be changing anytime soon.

Update.......Please Note:

I had first heard the phrase about a walk thru the ocean of most men's soul 51 years ago and could not recall who originated it. Forum member "Toast" was kind enough to refresh my memory by informing me that this phrase was originally coined by National Lampoon and released as a recording entitled "Deteriorata" in 1971.

1692202807903.png

The entire track can be listen to here:

genius.com

National Lampoon (Ft. Melissa Manchester) ā€“ Deteriorata

Deteriorata is a famous parody of Les Craneā€™s 1971 spoken word recording of Desiderata, the 1927 poem by Max Ehrmann. Desiderata is a Latin word meaning ā€œthings to be desired
genius.com genius.com


1692194461780.png
 
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Toast said:
Cribbed from National Lampoon's "Deteriorata". You should at least give credit. ;)
Click to expand...
Thank you for identifying the original source. I had heard this many years ago and could not recall the original authors of it. The previous post has been updated with the new information.
 
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crispnipz said:
What do you mean?? Full autos are too dangerous for our democracy and turning California permanently blue was great for our democracy! Reagan is good because...he just is okay? Where would we be as a nation without Bedtime for Bonzo?
Click to expand...

We'd have never gotten the hostages back alive had Carter won reelection. So, there's that. And he had a pretty good sense of humor.

Other than that, a second Carter administration would have been a nothingburger. He wasn't as polarized as the modern crop of Dems. He was just an old duffer, wanted to build houses for poor folks. Or something. Milquetoast.

Might still have the USSR around. But, maybe they'd have fallen anyway.
 
MAJoe said:
Itā€™ll be back in the fall. On pause for now during their summer recess.
Click to expand...
And when it comes back expect them to double down, the first attempt was just a test. Make no mistakes, they are passing something no matter how hard we fight back. Don't forget that the Senate is also working on a bill in case this one doesn't work. These people are hell bent on crushing the 2a in Massachusetts and show no signs of letting up this time. They have the votes, this is happening wether we like it or not. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. And anybody thinking that the courts will step in and save us is naive. It will take years to make it's way through and God only knows what makeup of SCOTUS will be if it even makes it there.
 
Ron Jablonski said:
Make no mistakes, they are passing something no matter how hard we fight back.
Click to expand...

We know this. They have to show that they're Doing Something. But Mariano's statement suggests strongly that he's concerned about Bruen, and that he's not terribly interested in a prolonged court fight he now knows would surely happen.

Ron Jablonski said:
Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. And anybody thinking that the courts will step in and save us is naive.
Click to expand...

Again, read Mariano's own statement. He is not particularly eager to have a high-profile piece of legislation overturned.
 
Picton said:
We know this. They have to show that they're Doing Something. But Mariano's statement suggests strongly that he's concerned about Bruen, and that he's not terribly interested in a prolonged court fight he now knows would surely happen.



Again, read Mariano's own statement. He is not particularly eager to have a high-profile piece of legislation overturned.
Click to expand...
I don't think these people deterred by Bruen, I think they're emboldened.
 
freddieMA said:
i have a very small, curated twitter feed, from across the political spectrum.

i see things like this coming across my feed literally every day. this references alvin bragg and nyc
View attachment 785772
Click to expand...
Yet this dipshit will vote for the same people who caused it again and again.
Enjoy their hell on earth ,they earned it .
 
freddieMA said:
this came across my twits feed this morning, this should generate a GOAL response.

edit: or our very own erudite wordsmith @Harry Christopher

commonwealthmagazine.org

We spearheaded state's 2014 gun law; new legislation can build on it

FOR NEARLY 10 years Massachusetts has been one of the states with the lowest rates of firearm deaths. Firearm deaths include homicides and suicides by
commonwealthmagazine.org commonwealthmagazine.org
Click to expand...


You have to love this little gem.

ā€œ It would also prohibit individuals who are intoxicated or under the influence of marijuana from carrying a firearm.ā€

They are ready prohibited under state law..
 
Ron Jablonski said:
I don't think these people deterred by Bruen, I think they're emboldened.
Click to expand...


Picton said:
Again, read Mariano's own statement. He is not particularly eager to have a high-profile piece of legislation overturned.
Click to expand...
Time will tell, of course. But it's no more "naive" for me to put my faith in Bruen than it was "naive" for King to put his in Brown v Board. Some of us understand this is a long fight. Better for me to go through it than my children.
 

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