Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

VetteGirlMA said:
I think you're missing the big picture here. Some of these people and it gets interesting because there is an intersection of the wealthy elites and the far far left (ie marxists), they want to destabilize the system to make it crash. The super wealthy will profit on either the way up or the way down. They openly tolerate the an-coms, socialists and marxists because there is a profit angle. These 'activists' on the left are essentially monumentally naive optimists who are being played like a grand piano by people with immense wealth as a way to squeeze every last penny in existence into their own pockets. All of this DEI/ESG etc is just corporate sloganeering by the people in charge. The marxists think "yay we're winning", the boardroom says "it's good for business".

The people at least to me to keep a close eye on are these super wealthy people. I'm not even talking millionaires here. I'm talking about people who can buy a yacht and put in on their master card like it's a business lunch. That's the puppet master class.

I would like to point out that this is not strictly a democrat problem. There are plenty of republicans who would love to see the whole system crash for some quick cash for themselves and their families.
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You raise an interesting point. When an individual who has seen the way life was before we were inundated by this tsunami of woke nonsense and compares it to what passes for the so-called present acceptable standards of societal normality today, one can be forgiven for feeling overwhelmed with a sense of abject disbelief and bewilderment at the present turn of events.

There may be a tendency to become mired in an overly complicated analysis of how we arrived at this juncture in time and why did it occur in the first place, but I think that your thesis strips away all the academic sociological hand ringing and drills down to the basic fundamental causation of what has evolved and why it will continue to mature over the long term.

Cui Bono indeed.

The desire to turn a profit is one that was born in ancient times and has developed to become an ingrained part of every civilization since the days of the ancient Roman Empire. A present-day example of this behavioral trait is a news report that I saw this evening saying that outside speculators were trying to buy up land that has been devastated in the recent Maui firestorm. A prime example of the political saying of never let a good crisis go to waste which was attributed to Rahm Emanuel during the 2008 financial crisis and the 2020 virus pandemic.

The profit can be either monetary in nature or trying to slip an unsupported legislative agenda past its critics when they are distracted by some other big picture disaster.

What these profiteers of misery fail to take into account is that when the situation has become so bad that it actually negatively impacts the lives and day to day survival of the so-called little people on the ground there may be an organic reaction that the profiteers failed to take into account.

I have already seen reports that those residents who actually managed to live thru the Maui firestorm are being forced to discard their previous standards of community social interaction to try to provide for their families by the age-old means of the employment of their personal arms.

The question that arises in my mind is if a disaster of such magnitude were to engulf this country as a whole, would the affected victims ignore their past beliefs of what constituted civilized behavior in order to attempt to provide for their loved ones?

Frankly I think most individuals would do so.

And this response may come as a rather unpleasant shock to the financial Beautiful People.


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Picton said:
Time will tell, of course. But it's no more "naive" for me to put my faith in Bruen than it was "naive" for King to put his in Brown v Board. Some of us understand this is a long fight. Better for me to go through it than my children.
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I was surprised at the how quickly the McCarthy case moved thru the 1st Circuit Court and rather stunned that Judge Woodlock made the ruling that he did. It is a given that the political atmosphere in Boston will remain firmly against both the concept of the second amendment itself as well as against the idea of individuals actually owning and using firearms here in the Republic under that amendment.

The Bruen decision provides some basis for hope that it may serve as a moderating factor on the birth of legislation as unconstitutional as the initial 4420 proposal appears to be but failing that I would hope that if a case actually ends up in court maybe we as a group have a reasonable chance to prevail on the merits of our complaint. It will certainly be an interesting journey whatever happens.
 
CatSnoutSoup said:
I don't think anyone has posted this here. From earlier today...

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GOAL - HD4420 Overpass

www.goal.org www.goal.org


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As of this evening there are four locations for the stop HD4420 overpass standouts this coming weekend: Leominster, Newburyport, Norton, and Waltham.

See the quoted post above for the info link.

🐯
 
nin7474 said:

View: https://youtu.be/txJ3qIy-u_Y
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Here is something to think about:

There are an estimated 600,000 licensed gun owners in the Republic today.

There are 20,000 members of GOAL.

So....... who do the 580,000 licensed gun owners...... who are not members of GOAL........think are going to represent them in the fight against what appears to be one of the more blatant, in your face political attempts in the last few decades to outright legislate your 2-A Constitutional civil rights into the dustbin of history?

And.....why do these 580,000 bystanders ........not feel compelled to try to provide whatever aid they are capable of to a statewide organization that has been trying to defend the 2-A civil rights of all Republic gun owners since the 1970s?

If the full nature of the actual underlining intent behind bills such as 4420 does not motivate a gun owner to throw off the cloak of indifference and get involved in the current struggle, then we will all suffer from the results of this arrogance of ignorance...... and perhaps deservedly so.

This is more than a struggle for our present today.......more importantly it is a struggle for the present of future generations.


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Harry Christopher said:
Here is something to think about:

There are an estimated 600,000 licensed gun owners in the Republic today.

There are 20,000 members of GOAL.

So....... who do the 580,000 licensed gun owners...... who are not members of GOAL........think are going to represent them in the fight against what appears to be one of the more blatant, in your face political attempts in the last few decades to outright legislate your 2-A Constitutional civil rights into the dustbin of history?

And.....why do these 580,000 bystanders ........not feel compelled to try to provide whatever aid they are capable of to a statewide organization that has been trying to defend the 2-A civil rights of all Republic gun owners since the 1970s?

If the full nature of the actual underlining intent behind bills such as 4420 does not motivate a gun owner to throw off the cloak of indifference and get involved in the current struggle, then we will all suffer from the results of this arrogance of ignorance...... and perhaps deservedly so.

This is more than a struggle for our present today.......more importantly it is a struggle for the present of future generations.


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Most probably dont even know about GOAL, I had no idea until I saw it on here
 
Harry Christopher said:
Here is something to think about:

There are an estimated 600,000 licensed gun owners in the Republic today.

There are 20,000 members of GOAL.

So....... who do the 580,000 licensed gun owners...... who are not members of GOAL........think are going to represent them in the fight against what appears to be one of the more blatant, in your face political attempts in the last few decades to outright legislate your 2-A Constitutional civil rights into the dustbin of history?

And.....why do these 580,000 bystanders ........
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Not that it makes up a huge number but i bet it’s a fair sum, but i have a family membership as my wife has her LTC and we donate under the same family membership so it’s not 20,000 / 580,000.

Our GOA, FPC and NRA (yes, i know…) are individuals.
 
AJK129 said:
Most probably dont even know about GOAL, I had no idea until I saw it on here
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I first learned about GOAL during the fight against the bill to ban all handguns in the Republic in 1976. I attended their Art of Concealed Carry Class in 2005...a class which I highly recommend to individuals who decide to go about their daily business while carrying concealed.

I had no idea whatsoever about the 4420 attempt to strip us of our 2-A civil rights until GOAL had sent me an email warning about this abomination...... (I have a family GOAL membership) ... and I was absolutely stunned at what the actual bill would result in if it were to be enacted as the proposal is presently written.

I have spoken with other gun owners both in and out of our extended family and they had no idea at all that this bill was lurking on our dark horizon.

And that was the intent of the bill's authors........to conceal its very existence from the gun owning members of the Republic and get it passed and signed by the end of July before any opposition to it was able to form and protest the bill.

GOAL caught on to this underhanded legislative attempt to disenfranchise the shooting community and started to alert all who would listen to what was being put together in the wee hours of the night behind closed doors.......and the result of their Paul Revere imitation was to galvanize a groundswell of opposition that far exceeds the opposition that I can recall during the 1976 fight and it would appear has very much surprised the Beautiful People in Boston as well.

I have found them to be an organization worth my support.
 
Nightshift said:
Not that it makes up a huge number but i bet it’s a fair sum, but i have a family membership as my wife has her LTC and we donate under the same family membership so it’s not 20,000 / 580,000.

Our GOA, FPC and NRA (yes, i know…) are individuals.
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Our GOAL is a family membership as well and our FPC is an individual membership. She Who Must Be Obeyed received her LTC in 1973 and I received mine in 1976 so whenever we become involved in in the shooting sports arena is usually done in both our names as well.
 
Harry Christopher said:
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Would that be the same John Adams who called Shay's Rebellion and The Whiskey Rebellion "Terrorism," sent in the army to quell Fries's Rebellion, and pushed through passage of the Sedition Acts as a "war measure?" Why, yes, yes it was.

I believe Adams's actions speak far louder than a self-serving letter to Abigail.
 
I didn't want to start another thread involving this bill so I'm posting here. With school starting back up and knowing how scummy the dems are, what do you think the chances are for a school shooting in MA just so they can really ram things through on emotion? We all know they have no problem killing unborn kids. Do you think they would sink even lower to push their views through?
 
Doing my part and putting up signs in highly visible areas. Looks like the guys at Hamilton Rod and Gun club in Sturbridge are going to try and organize something on Saturday. Signs on the bridge on New Boston Road over the Mass Pike. I have to work but would definitely be there if I were off.... I'll post more info as I receive it.
 
deerdad said:
I didn't want to start another thread involving this bill so I'm posting here. With school starting back up and knowing how scummy the dems are, what do you think the chances are for a school shooting in MA just so they can really ram things through on emotion? We all know they have no problem killing unborn kids. Do you think they would sink even lower to push their views through?
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...I mean, what kinds of responses are you expecting to get?

We know who the NES fudd contingent is, who the NES pantshitter contingent is, who the NES Stud Club is, and who the NES sit-on-your-hands contingent is. More to the point of your question, we know who the NES tinfoil contingent is, too.

Nobody knows the answer to your question. But a lot of people probably think they do. That doesn't mean they actually do, even though they'll post quite confidently. They're replying from their preconceptions and biases. So you can pick and choose whichever answer fits yours, as well.

My own answer is "nil." And even if there is a school shooting in the near future, it won't necessarily be because of this bill. That might be difficult for some to accept, but it's the truth. Maybe, maybe not; no one knows.
 
Picton said:
My own answer is "nil." And even if there is a school shooting in the near future, it won't necessarily be because of this bill. That might be difficult for some to accept, but it's the truth. Maybe, maybe not; no one knows.
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I'd assess the chance of a school shooting as miniscule, but not "nil". I would certainly go along with "nil" for the chances of a shooting staged as a justification for the bill.
 
bigbravehog said:
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"I went to college and law school for a very long time, partly to be able to do this."

Ah, the argument from authority, typically rolled out when a self-important tool can't deal with the specifics of an objection. A subset of this is the "as an education professional" comment at school committee meetings, typically used by someone who thinks you're going to be impressed by her education degree from a school with minimal admission requirements.
 
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She’s my rep and finally got back to me yesterday. 33 days to respond.

I definitely got more of a form type response even though I stated some very specific things.
 
Toast said:
"I went to college and law school for a very long time, partly to be able to do this."

Ah, the argument from authority, typically rolled out when a self-important tool can't deal with the specifics of an objection. A subset of this is the "as an education professional" comment at school committee meetings, typically used by someone who thinks you're going to be impressed by her education degree from a school with minimal admission requirements.
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She forgot to mention, graduated top of my class of 5000 after teaching myself to read by the light of a candle in a coal mine....You dumb bastard!
 
bigbravehog said:
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bigbravehog said:
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The GOAL summaries are NOT irrelevant. They are in and of themselves indicative of the complete depth and breadth of the deliberate intension of you and your colleague's attempt to circumvent the recent Supreme Court Bruen decision because you don't agree with it and try to legislatively replace that decision with a state edict that more comfortably fits your current woke narrative.

The expenditure of 7 years' " very long time" to complete your undergraduate and law school education pales when compared to the time and effort required for one to achieve their doctorate in any given field........I say this coming from a family that has one member who spent a "long time" to earn a law degree and one member who spent an even "longer time" to earn their doctorate in economics.

While this may come as somewhat of a shock to you to learn......... your Juris Doctor does not confer upon you the Solomon-like ability to divine and discern the truth underscoring all things in life and politics in such a manner that your opinions will be carved in stone for the benefit of future generations to gaze upon and learn from.

As far as the "facts" and "legal opinions" you were given during the original composition of the 4420 proposals by your in-house "experts", you may wish to inquire of these individuals if they too spent a "very long time" going to college and law school........because if they did......... then perhaps they should demand a full refund of their tuition paid.....as their "legal opinions" of the 4420 bill could...... at the most charitably...... be called less than knowledgeable pursuant to being in accordance with current settled law.

One can be forgiven for the unrequited forlorn hope that perhaps on the next proposal you will actually read it..... and speak with people who also have read it...... prior to pontificating about your ability to know what is right for ALL the residents of the Republic and how a bill's enactment will affect their everyday lives.

I would not be in the least surprised if there is in fact "plenty of opposition to whatever bill comes around regardless of what it actually contains" because as long as "what it contains" is a direct attempt to abrogate a Constitutional civil right that is actually cherished by quite a few of the great horde of the unwashed and untutored they will rise up to make their opinions known in no uncertain manner.

As regards to your "clear" attempt to demean the thoughts of a constituent who spent the time to share his sincere concerns with you regarding the "DEAD 4420" bill.....you may gain some profit by remembering:"

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