Massachusetts Bill HD.4420 "An act to modernize gun Laws"

One of the problems with bring up the lack of a LEO exception and no grandfathering clause, is they can both be easily fixed with an amendment before a final vote and then used as a "see we compromised" narrative. Better to leave out the grandfathering and let it be there for a constitutional challenge.
 
This is why it's important to cite Maura's 2016 FAQ because it absolutely does list items explicitly listed by her as now illegal.
and he says "no new guns are banned" except for the Keltec sub2k (among others i'm sure, tavor?) which didn't exist back in '94, but now is all of a sudden called out by name in this new bill.
 
I know the bill is much more than this but even these other liberal states like WA, IL, NY, NJ, CT allowed grandfathering right?
Many of the more recent ones did not.

This bill does not allow grandfathering, a first I believe. It’s not the point but what kind of legal challenge might that alone bring down on it forgetting about the mountains of other issues it creates.
None. They'll tell you you can sell it out of state before the law takes effect.
 
One of the problems with bring up the lack of a LEO exception and no grandfathering clause, is they can both be easily fixed with an amendment before a final vote and then used as a "see we compromised" narrative. Better to leave out the grandfathering and let it be there for a constitutional challenge.
f*** that. No more free rides for the Po-Po.

Ask the co-sponsors why they get an exemption. They will reply with “cuz training”, then paint them in a corner.
 
We laugh, but over in Europe they are trying to basically tax SUV’s out of existence.
I’m not laughing I’m originally from Europe. Where you need to prove your innocence not the other way around. Where the government passes tax reform allowed for a tax exemption for certain items only to change it a few months later without grandfathering clauses. I’ve said this before they want the young people to believe this is a crappy place to change it for the worse where in reality this place is much better from what everyone is trying to escape from around the world. I’m definitely not laughing.
 
My Response... as best as I could do.

Senator Feeney/Rep. Scanon..

I've attached GOAL's summary of the new items included in this bill and how it would affect law abiding gun owners. The fact that Mr. Day publicized his "listening tour" as a means to reach out and hear both sides was disingenuous, and looking at the proposed requirements, didn't take anything law-abiding gun owners said seriously. This is 140 pages of harassment to gun owners, and will not do anything further to prevent crime or gun violence in the Commonwealth.

There is a new definition of "firearm" which includes parts other than the federally defined "firearm", the receiver part. Thus wherever "firearm" is used, all applicable regulations apply to all gun parts, and not just the federal "firearm".


SECTION 43 of the bill (Safe Storage Definition):
· "Secured in a locked container”, at a minimum the container must be capable of being unlocked only by means of a key, combination or similar means and it must be able to deter all but the most persistent from gaining access. A room or a store even if capable of being locked and surveilled is insufficient. Currently, a locked container is acceptable storage. Trigger locks would no longer be acceptable. A locked room, closet, or vault should be considered "safe storage".
· Retailers must comply with safe storage laws. They already do comply with current laws. Massachusetts has not had any significant problems with firearm thefts from retailers.
SECTION 48 of the bill:
· Mandatory registration of all guns and feeding devices. Overly onerous and invasive requirements. Feeding devices are not serialized by the manufacturer and would be impossible to differentiate in registration. It is likely that feeding device may be unobtainable without a serial number, rendering a new firearm useless.
· Privately made guns must be registered within 7 days Already exists under current EFA-10 transaction system.
· Mentions a new term “Expiration date for registrant”
· Mandatory reporting of any modifications or new parts to a gun. Overly onerous and invasive requirements.
· Itemized list of parts if modifying or building a gun. Overly onerous and invasive requirements.
· Feeding devices are now included in rental reports. Overly onerous and invasive requirements.
· Subsection (e) of this section implies there are no exemptions for registration for those traveling through the state. This is currently regulated by Federal Law.
SECTION 49 of the bill:
· Mandatory serializing of feeding devices. Manufacturers do not serialize feeding devices and will likely not change their practices to appease MA laws.
· Confusing language on new residents and serializing guns.
· Must obtain a serial number prior to assembling a gun.
· Must register a newly assembled gun within 7 days.
· Any privately made gun must comply with all state and federal safety regulations. (not sure if this means testing at a lab?) Overly onerous requirements for individual gun owners.
· Mandatory reporting the manner in which production will take place, including whether an assembly kit or additive manufacturing will be utilized. Overly onerous requirements for individual gun owners.
· Registration requirements will not apply to law enforcement. Why not? It's been shown that law enforcement is just as likely, or even more likely than lawful gun owners to commit crimes. Note the number of Boston PD, State PD, and other municipal PD charged or indicted recently.
SECTION 53. Licensing
· Delinquent child is now a prohibited person All but the most egregious offenders should be able to have their full constitutional rights restored after completion of their sentence.
SECTION 54 of the Bill:
· Changes FID Card to “Long gun permit”
· Bans anyone under 21 from acquiring or carrying any semi-automatic rifle or shotgun. So if 18 yrs of age is fine to join the military, and vote, but not to carry a semiautomatic rifle or shotgun, what constitutes "adulthood"? Is there a problem with young adults and these firearms that requires a new law?
· New term of “Judicial Stay” on applications.
· Maintains license revocation or suspension for not reporting change of address within 30 days. Overly onerous requirements for individual gun owners.
· Mandates providing license to law enforcement if you are outside your own property even if you don’t own or possess a gun. Overly onerous requirements for individual gun owners. Officers already can tell if one possesses a firearms LTC in their database.
SECTION 55 of the bill (Retailers)
· Must be a licensed retailer to sell any feeding devices. Overly onerous requirements for individual gun owners. Individuals should be able to transfer private property between licensed individuals without others involvment.
· Retailers are required to confiscate any expired license presented to them

It's not the retailers responsibility to confiscate these items. This could lead to confrontation at retailers and put them in danger.
· Retailers must keep a sales record book and record any firearms, feeding and ammunition for sales, transfers and rentals. To include the customers name, sex, address and occupation Onerous requirement for retailers. They already must record firearms sales. Feeding devices, ammunition need not be tracked. Sex and occupation are definitely unnecessary and invasive items to include in any transaction.
· Retailers will now be inspected once a year by the State Police instead of local authorities. Don't the state police have better things to do?
· State Police can develop the rules of the rules for inspections. Really? So who then monitors the state police on what's legal and not legal to do? Or are they just given free reign.

SECTION 56 of the bill (New Training Mandates):
Overly onerous requirements to exercise a constitutional right. The state already places training requirements to obtain an LTC.
· Written Exam
· injury prevention and harm reduction education
· active shooter and emergency response training
· applicable laws relating to the use of force
· de-escalation and disengagement tactics
· live firearms training – to be determined by the State Police At what cost and extent?
· Students must meet new established minimum requirements
Criminal Justice Information Services will issue certificate rather than the instructor Adds another level of unnecessary bureaucracy to the process.


Licensing Authority Training shall participate in training seminars on the following:
· current laws, regulations and rules relating to this chapter;
· licensing responsibilities;
· record keeping obligations;
· firearm surrender, registration and tracing;
· electronic database use.
· Regulations prescribed by the executive office of public safety and security shall include penalties for non-compliance which may include review by the Massachusetts Peace Officers Standards and Training (POST) Commission.
I'm already certified by the NRA and Mass SP to teach. This places even more requirements on me.
Mandated training for retailers.
The curriculum for the online dealer training program shall include information on requirements and conditions expressed sections 122 to 130, inclusive, and other relevant General Laws and shall further include (i) uniform standards of security for business premises; and (ii) employee background check and training requirements.
Dealers already train employees on firearms regulation..
Transportation:
· Any large capacity firearm (new definition) must be transported unloaded and locked in a container. The new definition of firearms (as parts) requires gun parts (harmless as handled) to be transported locked. Not only does this impact individuals purchasing parts, but also affects common carriers (FedEx, UPS) from transporting harmless items.
SECTION 57 of the bill:
· Persons can voluntarily surrender the firearm (new definition) or ammunition to a licensing authority Individuals can already do this.
· Professional photographers or writers are exempt from long gun permits during the course of their work.
· Common carriers (UPS, FedEx) must comply with storage and transportation requirements. Effectively cutting off supply to MA.
· Anyone under 15 is banned from handing a handgun or large capacity rifle or shotgun I, as a parent, am responsible for my children's firearm education. Only I understand their maturity level and their capability. My son shot 22 bolt action at 8 yrs old. AR15 at 12 yrs old. Both sons have been exposed and trained since young on the safe handling and respect for firearms. This item would make me a criminal.
· Bans anyone under 15 taking part in shooting sports and training. I currently train Scouts on basic rifle and shotgun. Cub Scouts (Grades K-5) can be trained using the Eddie Eagle method of Stop/Don't Touch/Run Away/Tell an Adult. Boy Scouts start at the end of Grade 5 (roughly 11 yrs old) and can begin their training. This rule would remove our ability to train.
SECTION 60 of the bill: (New Assault Weapons Section)
· There are NO exemptions (grandfathering) for any “Assault-style Firearm” possessed after September 13, 1994 Makes those who legally purchased rifles after 1994 instant felons. It appears that those with post-1994 rifles will be required to surrender legally obtained property. Will they be compensated monetarily for it? For those who don't comply, will LEO be willing to go house to house to confiscate?
· New Assault Weapon definition now has a single feature test. Becomes the most burdensome ban in the country.
· New Assault Weapon definition now contains an extensive list of guns.
· New restrictions on where you can possess a pre-ban Assault Weapon. Overly onerous requirements for individual gun owners.
· Law enforcement exemption. Again, LEO has shown to not be any more responsible than the average legal gun owner, and should not be offered preferential treatment.
· New restrictions on transferring high capacity feeding devices.
If the feeding device is not pre-September 13, 1994 it can only be possessed under the following conditions:

· Mandatory reporting of the transfer of a large capacity feeding device. Overly onerous requirements for individual gun owners.
· The office of the attorney general shall promulgate rules and regulations for this section which shall include public notice and an outreach campaign to promote awareness of the provisions of this section. MA regulations are already quite complex. Requiring the MA AG to have to "provide outreach" simply means any new regulations are overly confusing, and bound to create unintentional violations.
· Bans the possession of any “automatic part”. This is already included under Federal regulation
SECTION 61 of the bill:


· Seems to require so-called “smart gun technology”. Technology isn't even close to this level yet.
· Holds manufacturers individually and jointly liable for injuries or property damage caused by guns without mandated safety measures. Like most other tools, the most important safety device is "between your ears". Holding firearms manufacturers to liability for owner misuse is misguided.
· Exempts law enforcement and military from safety device requirements. Again, why LEO/MIL exemptions?
· Evidence that a person sold or attempted to sell a machine gun shall constitute prima facie evidence that such person is engaged in the business of selling machine guns. Governed by Federal laws already.

SECTION 173 of the bill:
Ban on possessing any gun, loaded or unloaded:
· “prohibited area” shall mean any of the following, including in or upon any part of the buildings, grounds, or parking areas of: (Overly inclusive location requirements.)
· a place owned, leased, or under the control of state, county or municipal government used for the purpose of government administration, judicial or court administrative proceedings, or correctional services;  Courts and correctional sites are already regulated. Government administration buildings include not only town halls, but also public works offices, are owned by taxpayers. Our rights don't end at the front doors of municipal buildings
· a location in use as a polling place or used for the storage or tabulation of ballots;   Most polling is done in schools now, so this item is moot.
· an elementary school, secondary school, college, university or other educational institution including transport used for students of said institution and places where persons are assembled for educational purposes;  Schools are already prohibited places. "Assembled for educational purposes" now could be construed to include any place where anything is taught, be it yoga, ceramics, art, etc, regardless where that activity is taking place (park, residence, private facility).
· any private property, including but not limited to residential, commercial, industrial, agricultural, institutional or undeveloped property, unless the owner has provided express consent or has posted a sign indicating that it is permissible to carry on the premises a firearm with a valid and lawfully issued firearm license or permit under Chapter 140;   So the property owner must "provide consent". This basically deters concealed carry in all private property. Places currently have the option to provide signage that guns are "not allowed" on private property, and may be requested to leave the premises.
· A law enforcement officer may arrest without a warrant and detain a person found in violation of this section. They already have this power.
· These restrictions shall not apply to a law enforcement officer while in the performance of their official duties, or a security guard employed by the prohibited area while at the location of their employment and during the course of their employment.  Already applies.

So, in summary, absolutely NONE of the items summarized from these 140 pages does anything to curb violence in Dorchester, Roxbury, Lowell, Brockton, Springfield, etc., but places more requirements and more limitations on regular guys like me, who just try to do the right thing. The criminals doing the shooting don't care about licensing or training requirements. They don't care about location prohibitions. They don't care about laws. They will continue to get their handguns illegally, and continue to commit the violence they do.

The additional "assault weapons" bans also will do nothing to curb the inner city gun violence, as these guns aren't generally used in these cases. So this entire section is written to further harass legal gun owners who've been following the law, as written, since 1994.

So, as a constituent of yours, I plead with you to talk to gun owners in the district. Swing by Mansfield Fish & Game, Wrentham Sportsman's Association, American Firearms School, Angle Tree Stone Rod & Gun Club and see what response you get when asked about this bill. Listen to the staff at GOAL, who've analyzed these regulations and understand their effects on both legal gun owners and crime in the Commonwealth.

Massachusetts already has some of the most restrictive and burdensome gun regulations in the country. As we've seen in California, more restrictive gun laws do nothing to reduce gun violence and mass shootings.

Thanks for your time for reading how these proposed laws would affect us. All I ask for is your time to do the research before deciding on this bill. Thank you.

Sincerely,



Vincent


I just got off the phone with Zach from Rep. John Rogers office, a very good 20 minute phone call. He said they are going through the bill and are trying to understand it and how it will impact people.
They have been getting phone calls and emails. Two of the points I touched on are the "safe Storage" and how ambiguous the wording "all but the most persistent of" attacks. What does that mean?
AND then the serialization of magazines clips and strips and I explained for him what they are. Also compared putting serial numbers on magazines especially collector mags to a unopened pack of baseball cards, having to open them and then put serial numbers on them. it will destroy the value of wrapped mags. ALSO the COST to the state to set up and entire agency to serial number and then stamp them on the mags clips and strips. I am sending him the attached synopsis to his email as it may help them understand the bill.
 
This is why it's important to cite Maura's 2016 FAQ because it absolutely does list items explicitly listed by her as now illegal.
I'm old enough to remember when Queen Maura said that anything in .22 could not possibly be an assault anything. 🤪
This is just meant to be a defacto ban on firearms ownership. Insurance companies are on record as stating they will not ever offer this type of insurance. So, if they don't offer it but it is required, then we will all be criminals
As I understand it, we Massachusetts gunowners are pretty much all criminals now anyway. 😆
 
I just got off the phone with Zach from Rep. John Rogers office, a very good 20 minute phone call. He said they are going through the bill and are trying to understand it and how it will impact people.
They have been getting phone calls and emails. Two of the points I touched on are the "safe Storage" and how ambiguous the wording "all but the most persistent of" attacks. What does that mean?
AND then the serialization of magazines clips and strips and I explained for him what they are. Also compared putting serial numbers on magazines especially collector mags to a unopened pack of baseball cards, having to open them and then put serial numbers on them. it will destroy the value of wrapped mags. ALSO the COST to the state to set up and entire agency to serial number and then stamp them on the mags clips and strips. I am sending him the attached synopsis to his email as it may help them understand the bill.
nice job ... might want to ask how serializing mags and strippers adds to safety
 
I’m not laughing I’m originally from Europe. Where you need to prove your innocence not the other way around. Where the government passes tax reform allowed for a tax exemption for certain items only to change it a few months later without grandfathering clauses. I’ve said this before they want the young people to believe this is a crappy place to change it for the worse where in reality this place is much better from what everyone is trying to escape from around the world. I’m definitely not laughing.
the problem for republicans (and to an extent moderate dems) is that this is coming from young people themselves, primarily but not exclusively in urban areas. that's how entire states get captured, and from observation, it's also a pretty intolerant movement not necessarily concerned with your civil rights.

demographics is not necessarily destiny, but massgop essentially operating out of a phone booth can happen elsewhere with time.
 
nice job ... might want to ask how serializing mags and strippers adds to safety

Well, when the criminals put serial numbers on theirs and register them without having an LTC the state will know they are breaking the law and catch them.
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Makes about as much frucking sense as most of this bill.
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AND then the serialization of magazines clips and strips and I explained for him what they are. Also compared putting serial numbers on magazines especially collector mags to a unopened pack of baseball cards, having to open them and then put serial numbers on them. it will destroy the value of wrapped mags. ALSO the COST to the state to set up and entire agency to serial number and then stamp them on the mags clips and strips. I am sending him the attached synopsis to his email as it may help them understand the bill.
nice job ... might want to ask how serializing mags and strippers adds to safety
Thank you. Very well stated @Ben Cartwright SASS. I've mentioned before that even some NES members don't understand serious gun collecting as a hobby and don't seem to care a hoot about our concerns. This is not a collector's forum after all. But messing up rare and high-value collectible magazines or other parts with some Dremel tool (or even costly laser engraving) to add totally useless serial numbers is just plain ridiculous. It amounts to theft of value (at a minimum) and leaves us with no other good option but to sell off parts of our collections to other collectors out in Free America.

Will our clueless leftist DimocRAT overlords ever understand that or give a shit? Highly, HIGHLY doubtful. :mad:
 
Gun violence continues to plague our country with shootings now being the leading cause of death for children in America. The public’s access to military style assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition magazines is deadly to law enforcement officers and the public. These present-day military style assault weapons are the culprit in many mass shootings and are designed to kill as many people as possible without needing to reload. The safety of my constituents and our Commonwealth is my priority, and this ban will save lives and not infringe on law-abiding citizens’ rights.

Representative Mike Day filed HD4420 as a result of his many listening sessions across the Commonwealth in consideration of the multiple gun safety bills filed this session. To address your concerns specifically on HD4420, I want to first explain where this language is in the legislative process. HD4420 is a docket number (HD) and is on Step 2 of 13 of “How a Bill Becomes a Law”, I have attached a copy of “the steps” to help you understand the process and progression of a bill.

First off, f*** this lady.

She completely lies about the statistics and what the bill does, then talks down to you like you don't know how the process works.

Again, f*** her.
 
I got a response from my letter to my Rep Denise Garlick. She is a lost cause but I do plan on responding to her with my disagreement with some of her assertions... especially the "this ban will save lives and not infringe on law-abiding citizens’ rights." statement... :rolleyes: .

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Dear C,

I deeply appreciate that you have contacted me with your issues and concerns related to guns in our Commonwealth.

First and foremost, I want to share my general position on this topic. I signed on to this recent open letter published in the Boston Globe calling on Congress to enact a ban on assault-style weapons, similar to the laws we have here in Massachusetts. Gun violence continues to plague our country with shootings now being the leading cause of death for children in America. The public’s access to military style assault weapons and large-capacity ammunition magazines is deadly to law enforcement officers and the public. These present-day military style assault weapons are the culprit in many mass shootings and are designed to kill as many people as possible without needing to reload. The safety of my constituents and our Commonwealth is my priority, and this ban will save lives and not infringe on law-abiding citizens’ rights.

Representative Mike Day filed HD4420 as a result of his many listening sessions across the Commonwealth in consideration of the multiple gun safety bills filed this session. To address your concerns specifically on HD4420, I want to first explain where this language is in the legislative process. HD4420 is a docket number (HD) and is on Step 2 of 13 of “How a Bill Becomes a Law”, I have attached a copy of “the steps” to help you understand the process and progression of a bill. This bill is still awaiting committee assignment before it can have a hearing. I will notify you when the bill is assigned to a committee and the public hearing date is set.

As your State Representative, Registered Nurse, mother, and grandmother. I want you to know how important gun safety is to me. I am committed to listening to you throughout the legislative process. If you have any further questions, concerns, or would like to discuss this further, please feel free to reach out to my office.

Yours in service,

Denise
Gun safety? BAA!
 
nice job ... might want to ask how serializing mags and strippers adds to safety

Well, when the criminals put serial numbers on theirs and register them without having an LTC the state will know they are breaking the law and catch them.
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Makes about as much frucking sense as most of this bill.
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I am sure they will say that a serialized dropped stripper clip will help solve a crime involving a 1903A3 with a bayonet on it! :p
 
First off, f*** this lady.

She completely lies about the statistics and what the bill does, then talks down to you like you don't know how the process works.

Again, f*** her.
you definitely have to take the machine seriously. if you've been watching how the government's disinformation machine has been colluding with big tech to suppress first amendment protected speech in the covid era, you should be properly alarmed for the bill of rights.

for that small piece of disinformation, remember: everyone lies


Capture.PNG
 
you definitely have to take the machine seriously. if you've been watching how the government's disinformation machine has been colluding with big tech to suppress first amendment protected speech in the covid era, you should be properly alarmed for the bill of rights.

for that small piece of disinformation, remember: everyone lies


View attachment 774097
Leftist DimocRAT pols are Master-Class liars... and the leftist "mainstream" media is more than happy to let them get away with it. :mad:
 
I just got off he phone with my State Reps office. I emailed last week and got an automatic reply. Today I called and spoke to an aide. Make the call express your concerns.

Make sure they know they are not only potentially hurting guns owners but their wives and families. Then get your friends family and relatives on board with their votes.
 
First off, f*** this lady.

She completely lies about the statistics and what the bill does, then talks down to you like you don't know how the process works.

Again, f*** her.
I’ve had a few aids explain how to process works. I politely say “I’m aware of the process, thank you. However, I want to voice my opinion on this bill, as it is being expedited by the legislature.”.
 
It’s not a ghost gun bill. It’s an attack on legal gun owners. It’s prevents people with LTC from carrying a pistol for protection even though the Supreme Court has already ruled on this issue. It also bans the possession of many common rifles used for hunting and target shooting.

All mags must be serialized. But no one makes serialized mags? Guess all magazines are banned.
 
the problem for republicans (and to an extent moderate dems) is that this is coming from young people themselves, primarily but not exclusively in urban areas. that's how entire states get captured, and from observation, it's also a pretty intolerant movement not necessarily concerned with your civil rights.

demographics is not necessarily destiny, but massgop essentially operating out of a phone booth can happen elsewhere with time.
It's the public school indoctrination factories. It was noticeable 10 years ago when I went through it, it's even worse now. Taking our kids out of the system will go a long way for the future, and that's atleast my plan
 
I jsut got off the phone with my State Rep Rich Hagerty's office. Very nice women told me they were receiving lots of calls about this. I told her there was nothing in this bill that was redeemable. I volunteered the fact that I was a pistol instructor I would like to talk to the Rep about this bill. She sounded excited and said oh he definitely would want to talk with you. I gave her my name and number and we will see what happens.

The speakers office said the same thing last week but still no call. Not that I really expected any.
 
the problem for republicans (and to an extent moderate dems) is that this is coming from young people themselves, primarily but not exclusively in urban areas. that's how entire states get captured, and from observation, it's also a pretty intolerant movement not necessarily concerned with your civil rights.

It's the public school indoctrination factories. It was noticeable 10 years ago when I went through it, it's even worse now.
Yes and yes. I see it in my own children and grand-children. It's pitiful. But when leftist DimocRAT teachers spend more time with your children than we do, what else can we expect? Add to that the effects of endless lies & propaganda from the leftist "mainstream" media and social media... and then it's a miracle that it isn't even worse than what we are already seeing. :mad:
 
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