MEN - Metallwerk Elisenhütte 5.56x45mm M193

CatSnoutSoup

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I noticed .223/5.56 prices creeping up a little in the last few weeks and decided it was a good time to add another case to the stack.

Not because I wanted to buy the cheapest ammo available, but because I wanted to try something a little different for me and did not want the price to get out of hand.

I ended up ordering a case of 5.56x45mm M193 manufactured in Germany by MEN (Metallwerk Elisenhütte), a subsidiary of CBC/Magtech.

Manufacturer's website:
5.56 mm x 45 – MEN Defencetec

It was $0.32 a round so comparable with the pricing of the Federal M193 (Lake City).

I have read praise for it on a couple forums so I figured I would give it a try.

has anyone here shot this ammo before?

:emoji_question:[wave]:emoji_question:
 

CatSnoutSoup

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Does it seem desperate to reply to my own thread? Don't care! :p

I wanted to add a couple of videos I saw when I was researching this ammo.

The first one is an interview Larry Vickers did with a Magtech executive Mike Fisher at the 2017 SHOT Show were it was explained that their export of MEN ammo out of Germany was dependent on whatever volume the German police and military do not buy up.


The second is a dude doing some velocity testing on MEN M193, it is a less than state of the art testing protocol but still interesting.
Video starts with a shot of a disassembled cartridge. These cartridges use a 56 gr. cannelured bullet, and have a sealed primer and case neck. Come 30 to the box, a case lot is 1020 rounds.


[thumbsup]
 
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mac1911

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It's all the same shit . MEN,S&B,CBC and magtech
It's made in Germany , Brazil, Czech and USA. They just box it up and much like LC and other manufactures we may get some over runs or a batch failure from a military contract.
For 55 grain fodder if I'm buying 223 i tend to lean towards wolf gold it's almost always under 30¢ round.
 

mac1911

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Does it seem desperate to reply to my own thread? Don't care! :p

I wanted to add a couple of videos I saw when I was researching this ammo.

The first one is an interview Larry Vickers did with a Magtech executive Mike Fisher at the 2017 SHOT Show were it was explained that their export of MEN ammo out of Germany was dependent on whatever volume the German police and military do not buy up.


The second is a dude doing some velocity testing on MEN M193, it is a less than state of the art testing protocol but still interesting.
Video starts with a shot of a disassembled cartridge. These cartridges use a 56 gr. cannelured bullet, and have a sealed primer and case neck. Come 30 to the box, a case lot is 1020 rounds.


[thumbsup]
Was a bit surprised to see the ES and SD change so much from a 16-20" barrel.
 

CatSnoutSoup

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Was a bit surprised to see the ES and SD change so much from a 16-20" barrel.
I take his figures the same way I take my own -- with a grain of salt. :p

One thing that would be helpful is more data points. For instance the first shot with the 16" barrel is a pretty big outlier at 3122 fps. compared to the other four velocities -- but without more data points it is hard to make a judgment call on whether it is indeed the ammo, or the chronograph or an environment change.

Standard deviation out of the 16" barrel with that 3122 fps. reading included is 24.05 but if you could throw out that first reading it would drop to 8.57, clearly more consistent.
I shoot ten points when assessing hand loads, if for no other reason than the imprecision of my equipment and methods.
 

drgrant

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It's all the same shit . MEN,S&B,CBC and magtech
Not quite... same importer, but different factories producing the ammo.. and the ammo is way different between the factories.

-Mike
 
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mac1911

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Not quite... same importer, but different factories producing the ammo.. and the ammo is way different between the factories.

-Mikr
never had all 4 together to actually check. I'm sure there are differences. I don't know which factory makes what or what boxes are labeled at each factory. All seems to be priced the same though. I was able to grab a box of the magtech "sniper" with the 77,grain OTM bullet for .47 cents per round and it shot very well. It's creeped up in price since I picked some up. Good thing is the 77 OTM offerings have come way down and can be found under 60¢ round from several different manufactures. If they use the Sierra bullets.
Germany is know to make good stuff. wolf 22 match is made in Germany by SK
 
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drgrant

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never had all 4 together to actually check. I'm sure there are differences. I don't know which factory makes what or what boxes are labeled at each factory.
Germany is know to make good stuff. wolf 22 match is made in Germany by SK
Let's put it this way, if you shot shot Magtech 9mm side by side with S&B, you'd never want to shoot magtech ever again.

S&B is a little dirty, but at least it has punt. A lot of magtech stuff is just piss weak.

-Mike
 

mac1911

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Let's put it this way, if you shot shot Magtech 9mm side by side with S&B, you'd never want to shoot magtech ever again.

S&B is a little dirty, but at least it has punt. A lot of magtech stuff is just piss weak.

-Mike
I have shot it but like you said , just have not shot side by side.
I reload really weak loads for the most part so most factory ammo seems "high powered " to me. Watching the shot show I did not hear him actual say anything was made state side.
Magtech Brazil. CBC/S&B Czech , Men germany

Funny just poking around for some pellet gun parts and I noticed this. Looks like cbc/magtech has a line of pellet guns made in Brazil also.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o3x897-YWQw
 
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andrew1220

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I've heard that there's going to be a price increase (possibly 15-20%) on ammo coming soon? Apparently most of the ammo being sold now is old stock and once the new stock is for sale the price will go up? No idea how true this is....
 

drgrant

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I've heard that there's going to be a price increase (possibly 15-20%) on ammo coming soon? Apparently most of the ammo being sold now is old stock and once the new stock is for sale the price will go up? No idea how true this is....
IMO depends on whether or not the ParklandBS ever develops into a real panic or not- they like to foist the price increases after a big supply drought of ammo, so people don't get pissed too quickly because they're just glad to have the ammo back.

-Mike
 

bfm

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I've heard that there's going to be a price increase (possibly 15-20%) on ammo coming soon? Apparently most of the ammo being sold now is old stock and once the new stock is for sale the price will go up? No idea how true this is....
If you look around, prices have dropped a lot from their peak, and may actually have come up a bit from the depletion of a true overstock situation, and many places are running sales that make picking up a couple cases quite reasonable. Even if you do not think prices are going to significantly increase, I do not think they are going to drop much more either so why wait to increase what you have on hand. My idea of what was a reasonable amount to have on hand changed drastically after the shortages of the last decade.
 

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Order arrived, a case lot is two cardboard cartons of 510 rounds (17 boxes of 30) each. Cartridges that I examined looked to be well constructed, and the brass looks workable (not brittle), at least to the eye.

However, being a geek it is the little things that strike me as neat, and apparently the German manufactures of this ammo are just as geeky as me.

Notice in the photo below that once you open one of the cartons, and remove the top layer of cardboard, you are provided with a sturdy little ribbon of fabric webbing so that you can easily lift out the first box of cartridges from the tightly packed carton. :cool:

 

CatSnoutSoup

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BTW as the cartridges are package 30 to a box it worked out that I was able to get 29 boxes in a single ammo can.

Guess I will just have to take the remaining 5 boxes to the range [mg]



P.S. Might be overkill but I always add two fresh packs of silica-gel desiccant :eek:
 

mac1911

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BTW as the cartridges are package 30 to a box it worked out that I was able to get 29 boxes in a single ammo can.

Guess I will just have to take the remaining 5 boxes to the range [mg]



P.S. Might be overkill but I always add two fresh packs of silica-gel desiccant :eek:
or free it up 1000 rounds fits into a 50 cal can maybe 1200 if you take a little time to stack it.
 
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