Can a Mossberg Shockwave be carried loaded in a vehicle? My local dealer says it can because the shock wave is considered a pistol. His reasoning is that in order to own one you have to meet the same requirements as buying a handgun. Purchaser must be 21 and a resident of the state the shockwave is being purchased in. I am not sure so I'm hoping someone with knowledge on this will chime in.
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Mossberg Shockwave loaded in vehicle
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MachineHead
NES Member
Dude, just sling it across your back on a motorcycle like in Terminator 2 and you'll be MA compliant. However, MA cops might think otherwise.
Would the weight of it be over 50 oz?? Wonder what a police offer would do if you got stopped with it laying on the seat ?? Nothing I would want to do, but it is YOUR choice.. Also, what is it called on your state form? Good luck..
Not in NH it doesn't.
Yes, but not because Federal law requires a PGO-only to be transferred like a pistol
NH RSA 159:1 states "Pistol or revolver, as used herein, means any firearm with barrel less than 16 inches in length.". This means that for the purposes of RSA 159, the sole requirement to be a "pistol" is barrel length. And RSA 159 as amended by SB12 specifically allows carry, with or without a license:
The last remaining sticky point is carry on ATV/UTV/OHRV, which is restricted in RSA 215-A:20 "Loaded Firearms Forbidden. – No person shall carry on an OHRV, or a trailer towed by same, any firearms unless said firearm is unloaded. This section shall not apply to law enforcement officers carrying firearms in the course of duty or to pistols carried under a permit issued pursuant to the authority of RSA 159." Note that SB12 did not amend RSA 215, and there is no definition of "firearm" or "pistol" in RSA 215. I expect that will get corrected next session.
There is one other consideration -- Carrying a non-NFA "Firearm" such as TAC-14 or Shockwave concealed likely violates Federal law.. So you're going to attract attention when you open carry this "Firearm".
I think the answer is yes, but not for the reason your dealer gives, as carry law in NH is unconnected with the Federal law for FFL transfers.
NH RSA 159:1 states "Pistol or revolver, as used herein, means any firearm with barrel less than 16 inches in length.". This means that for the purposes of RSA 159, the sole requirement to be a "pistol" is barrel length. And RSA 159 as amended by SB12 specifically allows carry, with or without a license:
RSA 159 said:
The last remaining sticky point is carry on ATV/UTV/OHRV, which is restricted in RSA 215-A:20 "Loaded Firearms Forbidden. – No person shall carry on an OHRV, or a trailer towed by same, any firearms unless said firearm is unloaded. This section shall not apply to law enforcement officers carrying firearms in the course of duty or to pistols carried under a permit issued pursuant to the authority of RSA 159." Note that SB12 did not amend RSA 215, and there is no definition of "firearm" or "pistol" in RSA 215. I expect that will get corrected next session.
There is one other consideration -- Carrying a non-NFA "Firearm" such as TAC-14 or Shockwave concealed likely violates Federal law.. So you're going to attract attention when you open carry this "Firearm".
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I ran into Evan Nappen at Shooters outpost today and asked him. According to him it is legal to be carried loaded in a vehicle. Its not something I plan to do a lot, but once in while when out in my woods I may.
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Good to hear. The difficult question is RSA 215 and OHRV (ATV, snowmobile, etc) operation.
Can't assume every LE in New Hampshire understands how the short barrel is what makes loaded carry in a vehicle of these not-a-shotgun firearms OK under state law. Even if you won't be convicted, still will attract attention.
MachineHead
NES Member
It sounds like the best thing you can do is carry the not-a-shotgun ATF exemption and applicable state law with you (glovebox).
IME, New Hampshire LE have little interest in the Federal NFA rules. For automotive carry, the important factor is the funky way RSA 159:1 defines "pistol", with the sole criteria being barrel length.
The long-term solution will be to pass the RSA 215 fix, then the point is moot.
Can an OHRV be made On-Highway compliant? i.e. Adding brake lights, headlights, seatbelts and turn signals then registered? Then, if converted, could it still be used OHRV?
New Hampshire doesn't appear to allow for converting an off-road vehicle to be registered as a highway-legal vehicle, but does have a new law which allows for inexpensive UTV & Tractor registration allowing for operation on low-speed town roads. But it'd still be an OHRV even when registered.
KBCraig
NES Member
I agree 100% with everything you said last year on this topic, but... where in that long thread you linked to is there anything about federal law and concealed carry?
The only place that I know of federal law specifically addressing "concealed" carry, is in LEOSA, which specifically addresses carry of concealed handguns (by federal definition) by qualified LEOs or qualified retired LEOs. FOPA is about transport, not carry, and we're talking about NH statutes, so that's not even at play.
Both Remington and Mossberg now have non-NFA shorties in 20 gauge, a much more manageable caliber.
It's on the last page of the BATFE letter for the Mossberg Shockwave:
BATFE said:
"Non-nfa non handgun firearms are no bueno for CCW. The 26" cut off is the length that the ATF considers non concealable. If you conceal one of these, you have made an AOW, in much the same way that a hole in a wallet holster makes an AOW."
browncoat, Jun 25, 2017
From another thread.
browncoat, Jun 25, 2017
From another thread.
Hmm, but again, like the revolver in the cane, I thought it was only AOW if it could be fired from "inside" its concealing case. I suppose that you "could" fire it inside a trenchcoat, but if you did without "uncovering" it, the only way would be straight down - at your foot and leg. By the same token, you could just conceal a "regular" shotgun (18in barrel, overall length of 26in) inside a trenchcoat.
There's a distinction between "disguised" and "capable of being concealed on the person" The 26" length criteria is part of the latter, but "disguised" is why a 28" cane gun wouldn't be legal if it can be fired in incognito mode.
That was my point. A pistol with an inside the pocket holster is "concealed", but can't be fired "concealed" vs. the Galco holster mentioned in a link above that allows it to be "concealed" AND "fired while concealed (disguised)". The whole point that the ATF makes is if it can be fired while "disguised". yes, 26in would be difficult, but as I mentioned you could still fire it inside the coat (just straight down). Kind of like someone shooting an AR pistol inside its case. People will try anything to get around the rules. Better off just getting rid of the rules.
Is it legal in NH for kopsch to arrest someone on a 24 hr courtesy hold for someone supposedly violating federal law?
If the answer to this is "yes" then a prick LEO that knows the fed BS could make trouble.
On the other hand, I don't exactly see a US attorney salivating over the possibility of arresting someone for an obscuratron "crime" which would likely faceplant on reasonable
person test.
-Mike
If the answer to this is "yes" then a prick LEO that knows the fed BS could make trouble.
On the other hand, I don't exactly see a US attorney salivating over the possibility of arresting someone for an obscuratron "crime" which would likely faceplant on reasonable
person test.
-Mike
Of course if we're going to go down that rabbit hole, anyone who ever rfired a revolver from inside a coat pocket at a bad guy is going to be in serious trouble... because they didn't call the ATF to turn their coat into an AOW...
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
-Mike
AHM
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I am in Maryland and retired LEO with LEOSA and I have to go through the waiting period just like a handgun- not NIC and walk like regular shotguns. Saw a review on the gun and the presenter was from OH and he said they had to amend the law to allow for these to even be in the state. I know there is case law that a loaded AR in a car is not a violation of LEOSA, so I am guessing on a road trip I am ok. Most for the home defense and usually use my Sig320 45
Huh, your very first post as a new member, is in the New Hampshire laws forum and has nothing what so ever to do with New Hampshire. Add to that, you are in Maryland. Go figure that.
Welcome to the forum I guess.
