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Motorcyclist pulls gun during road-rage confrontation, gets shot and killed by other driver

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Nah. That kind of riding is for idiots. when bikers drive dangerously, when surrounded by cars, bikers lose. Simple as that.
I’ve been to enough rider funerals to know that you can ride as safely as humanly possible and still get killed by an inattentive driver.

Your impression that splitting is “dangerous” isn’t accurate. It bears some risk in MA, certainly, as it isn’t expected behavior. But even here, I’ve had drivers move over to widen the gap (probably expats - the Ma**h*** move is to move in to close the gap, in which case, you just slot into the lane behind the Ma**h***. No muss, no fuss).
 

Mesatchornug

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I’ve been to enough rider funerals to know that you can ride as safely as humanly possible and still get killed by an inattentive driver.

Your impression that splitting is “dangerous” isn’t accurate. It bears some risk in MA, certainly, as it isn’t expected behavior. But even here, I’ve had drivers move over to widen the gap (probably expats - the Ma**h*** move is to move in to close the gap, in which case, you just slot into the lane behind the Ma**h***. No muss, no fuss).
It's just more anti/Fudd behavior: "I don't do it, nobody else needs it either."

Some folks will screw up, some will get bit. This is part of motorcycling.
 
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I’ve been to enough rider funerals to know that you can ride as safely as humanly possible and still get killed by an inattentive driver.

Your impression that splitting is “dangerous” isn’t accurate. It bears some risk in MA, certainly, as it isn’t expected behavior. But even here, I’ve had drivers move over to widen the gap (probably expats - the Ma**h*** move is to move in to close the gap, in which case, you just slot into the lane behind the Ma**h***. No muss, no fuss).
A) I don't see much lane splitting in metro Boston to begin with, as our divided highways generally have very narrow lanes, narrower than other parts of the country. I've seen splitting done safely, slowly, in bumper to bumper traffic. But more often when I see it (and again it's not often) is some asshat in a crotch rocket doing 95 in 75 mile an hour traffic.
 

M60

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I’ve been to enough rider funerals to know that you can ride as safely as humanly possible and still get killed by an inattentive driver.

Your impression that splitting is “dangerous” isn’t accurate. It bears some risk in MA, certainly, as it isn’t expected behavior. But even here, I’ve had drivers move over to widen the gap (probably expats - the Ma**h*** move is to move in to close the gap, in which case, you just slot into the lane behind the Ma**h***. No muss, no fuss).
Well, I've been riding since the sixties and have been seeing lane splitters get scraped off roads and breakdown lanes since the sixties. Some car drivers resent, that lane splitters can move ahead, when they can't. All it takes is one ass hat car driver, to make a judgement mistake and the biker always pays, for his stupid driving. I'm not giving advice, or passing judgement. God knows I did my share of stupid driving, when I was younger too. The years and experiences have taught me that road rash hurts, Just saying what I've seen over the years. I watched one biker lose it, while passing in a breakdown lane on 24 in Bridgewater, about 20 years ago. Watched his bike burst into flames. His two buddies behind him couldn't stop quick enough and all 3 went down. I turned around and went back, to see if I could help, but I was to late. All three died there, in the breakdown lane. I guess I'm the last one you should be telling, that illegal lane splitting isn't dangerous. I've seen the proof that says otherwise, but hey, you do whatever works for you. I wish you safe driving.
Just curious. Doesn't the term some risk, that you refer to, mean the same thing as dangerous?
 
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Mesatchornug

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Well, I've been riding since the sixties and have been seeing lane splitters get scraped off roads and breakdown lanes since the sixties. Some car drivers resent, that lane splitters can move ahead, when they can't. All it takes is one ass hat car driver, to make a judgement mistake and the biker always pays, for his stupid driving. I'm not giving advice, or passing judgement. Just saying what I've seen over the years. I watched one biker lose it, while passing in a breakdown lane on 24 in Bridgewater, about 20 years ago. Watched his bike burst into flames. His two buddies behind him couldn't stop quick enough and all 3 went down. I turned around and went back, to see if I could help, but I was to late. All three died there, in the breakdown lane. I guess I'm the last one you should be telling that lane splitting isn't dangerous. I've seen the proof that says otherwise, but hey, you do whatever works for you. I wish you safe driving.
I watched a car try to change lanes into a pair of motorcyclists last weekend. They were doing everything right, staggered in their lane, riding safely, and taking up about a much space as a car.

Inconsiderate drivers who don't pay attention remain a risk, no matter how the rider is behaving. At some point, the only "safe" strategy is to always be passing.
 

Boris

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Car drivers 100% f*** with bikes. Even stopped at an intersection, a bike rolling to the front of the line between cars will cause paroxysm of autistic jealousy among car drivers and some will swerve to block the bike from being ahead of them or deliberately open the doors.

Even if there is a backup for miles, aircooled bike "splitting lane" on the edge of the breakdown lane would case fits of rage from all the stopped drivers relaxing in AC-running cars.

I don't know what makes you faggots hate motorcycles so much, didn't your boyfriends told you to save environment, eat more soy and be green and shit? Rest in piece DeJeaon, you will be avenged.
 
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From our perspective (we ride) a surprising number of bikers are psychotically aggressive-on back roads I will always pull over for bikers, always, both to be courteous of course but mostly because we know that many will do something really stupid in order to get by a -perceived- slow moving vehicle.
 

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I watched a car try to change lanes into a pair of motorcyclists last weekend. They were doing everything right, staggered in their lane, riding safely, and taking up about a much space as a car.

Inconsiderate drivers who don't pay attention remain a risk, no matter how the rider is behaving. At some point, the only "safe" strategy is to always be passing.

always ride as though you're invisible. sometimes they just don't see you, sometimes they just don't care.

I was side-swiped on I95 at highway speeds intentionally. I know it was intentional because the driver was flipping me off and screaming as they hit me. I have no idea what precipitated that. I managed to ride it out, ended up with only a bent peg.

Another day I was riding in a organized group, several hundred bikes. We were in the left lane, car in the right lane decided that they absolutely needed to make a left turn, they turned right through the bike in front of me. I slapped bandages on the rider's head while waiting for the ambulance. The car driver was detained for the police.

I've done more than my fair share of stupid things on bikes. As I get older, it takes longer to heal so I try to avoid getting damaged.
 

Mesatchornug

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always ride as though you're invisible. sometimes they just don't see you, sometimes they just don't care.

I was side-swiped on I95 at highway speeds intentionally. I know it was intentional because the driver was flipping me off and screaming as they hit me. I have no idea what precipitated that. I managed to ride it out, ended up with only a bent peg.

Another day I was riding in a organized group, several hundred bikes. We were in the left lane, car in the right lane decided that they absolutely needed to make a left turn, they turned right through the bike in front of me. I slapped bandages on the rider's head while waiting for the ambulance. The car driver was detained for the police.

I've done more than my fair share of stupid things on bikes. As I get older, it takes longer to heal so I try to avoid getting damaged.
I think it was Stephenson in Snow Crash who said (paraphrased) better than riding like you're invisible is to assume every car knows where you are, and there's a bounty on your head.
 

Boris

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I think it was Stephenson in Snow Crash who said (paraphrased) better than riding like you're invisible is to assume every car knows where you are, and there's a bounty on your head.

I legit run into situations with crazed drivers trying to run me off the road, as in actively chasing me and trying to ram my bike on a highway. No idea why and this was in the age before common vid cams, so good luck trying to prove this. or who ran into whom. Makes you wander how many people those lunatics killl before they get apprehended, if ever.

Also few times on commuting downtown, Ford Godzilla drivers bitch to your face why 4-5 bikes need to take "car" parking spot.

Driving cars is a lot like shitposting on internet, you have that anonymous security blanket around you, but once people step out of their cars they realize that you are Roland Deschain and we are already in Quincy.
 

Mesatchornug

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I legit run into situations with crazed drivers trying to run me off the road, as in actively chasing me and trying to ram my bike on a highway. No idea why and this was in the age before common vid cams, so good luck trying to prove this. or who ran into whom. Makes you wander how many people those lunatics killl before they get apprehended, if ever.

Also few times on commuting downtown, Ford Godzilla drivers bitch to your face why 4-5 bikes need to take "car" parking spot.

Driving cars is a lot like shitposting on internet, you have that anonymous security blanket around you, but once people step out of their cars they realize that you are Roland Deschain and we are already in Quincy.
Bicycling home through the Fenway area, in heavy rain, I had a couple dudes in a van trying to drive up and slam me with the passenger door...because reasons.
 
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Hope someone had a dash cam because right or wrong, Mr. Shooter is gonna get sued by Evel Knievel's family.
It won't do them any good to bother trying, and just cost them money in the end.

You can be sued civilly by the bad guy you shot, or his surviving family. There’s a statute in Texas that governs whether or not you’ll be held liable for damages in such a suit. Texas Civil Practice and Remedies Code Section 83.001 says that if you use force, or deadly force that’s justified in self-defense, defense of others, or defensive property, you’re immune from civil liability for personal injury or death that results.


Note: This statute doesn’t prevent you from being sued, having to answer the lawsuit, and appear in court. It only prevents you from being held liable in money damages. So even if you were never charged with a crime, you had your case dismissed, or you were acquitted by a jury, you still have to answer that civil lawsuit and show the court that your use of deadly force was legally justified.


By the language of the Practice and Remedies Code this immunity from having to pay money damages is only good for personal injury and death. So even if you were justified in defending yourself, you can still be held liable for any property damage that your stray or over-penetrated bullet might have caused.

So they can file the suit, but it would just be throwing money away. If he doesn't get charged then the shooting is considered justified. At most the shooter will have to go to court and just effectively state it was justified citing the lack of charges and any official statement from the AG's office. Then demand that the other party pay for their associated legal fees. If they really wanted they could counter sue for them filing a frivolous lawsuit.
 
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Well, I've been riding since the sixties and have been seeing lane splitters get scraped off roads and breakdown lanes since the sixties. Some car drivers resent, that lane splitters can move ahead, when they can't. All it takes is one ass hat car driver, to make a judgement mistake and the biker always pays, for his stupid driving. I'm not giving advice, or passing judgement. God knows I did my share of stupid driving, when I was younger too. The years and experiences have taught me that road rash hurts, Just saying what I've seen over the years. I watched one biker lose it, while passing in a breakdown lane on 24 in Bridgewater, about 20 years ago. Watched his bike burst into flames. His two buddies behind him couldn't stop quick enough and all 3 went down. I turned around and went back, to see if I could help, but I was to late. All three died there, in the breakdown lane. I guess I'm the last one you should be telling, that illegal lane splitting isn't dangerous. I've seen the proof that says otherwise, but hey, you do whatever works for you. I wish you safe driving.
Just curious. Doesn't the term some risk, that you refer to, mean the same thing as dangerous?
Believe me, I know crashing hurts. As part of the “All the gear, all the time” sector of the moto riding club, I’ve avoided road rash, but I have a bulletproof zombie shoulder rebuild as the result of one incident (Kevlar and cadaver ligament holding that shoulder together).

To respond to the question, no “some risk” isn’t the same thing as “dangerous.”

(Getting out of bed in the morning involves “some risk,” and so does hiding in bed under the covers - at least my PCP and his emphasis on my lazy ass needing to exercise leads me to that conclusion. LOLz.)

Dangerous is where you move from some risk to lots of risk, or miscalculate the risk.

As I noted in my initial reply to this thread, splitting or filtering stop and go traffic at a low delta from the cages around you has some risk, blasting down a freely moving highway at warp 4.5 above car speed has lots of risk.

Calculating risk has kept me mostly injury free in 30+ years of riding. Above described mishap, which was my own damn fault and the result of a single vehicle (me) accident, notwithstanding :-/
 
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