moving dead weight, light and fast or heavy and slow?

[R1ch]

Ok, my project is starting to come together.

I need to decide, do I want to load 185 gr bullets at about 1503 FPS or 230 grain bullets at about 1336 FPS (another option could be 200 grain bullets as about 1456 FPS, but this seems like a middle ground to me).

There seems to be more energy in the 185 grain at 1503 FPS, but my gut tells me that mass moves, so I'm leaning towards 230 gr at 1336 FPS.

I'll be using these for pin shoots. Think bowling pins that get much heavier as the 'game' progresses and each pin is slowly getting filled with lead after each stage.

So which would be better at this task, lighter and faster, or heavier and slower? Does anyone have an practical experience or wisdom to offer?

 

[drgrant]

I'm guessing this is with a rifle, or a really big handgun?

For bowling pins you want heavier chunks of lead going downrange, although nearly anything will work if it has enough net juice.

-Mike

 

[Jasper]

get some .45colt bullets. i used to run the 265gr LRNFP's under, jeeze, something like 7gr of 231. (i dont recommend this load. i had to spring the hell out of that gun to keep it from battering itself).


if i hit it, it left the table, every time.

stick to the heavier bullets, stay away from anything RN (round=easier to deflect if you just catch an edge...flat-points and wadcutters tend to dig in)

 

[R1ch]

Mike, this is not a rifle, but a 1911 platform.

I will only use these recipies for now, unfortunately there are not a lot of validated recipies for this particular project.

The 230 grain will probably be Hornady XTP (hollow point).

At these pressures, I don't want to mess around with internet loads, so I'm sticking with loads validated by the known manufacturers.

I have to be careful, as the manufacturer advises against some published and 'tested' loads with a certain powder (AA #7) as their tests have shown too much variation in that powder depending on which overseas manufacturing plant the powder came from.

 

[ptanks56]

I load 230gr FMJ and get good results on pins. Upper reaches of Titegroup. Around 1075fps or so (if memory is right) HPs are nice but expensive, unless you find them on sale.

 

[JimB]

Ok, my project is starting to come together.

I need to decide, do I want to load 185 gr bullets at about 1503 FPS or 230 grain bullets at about 1336 FPS (another option could be 200 grain bullets as about 1456 FPS, but this seems like a middle ground to me).

There seems to be more energy in the 185 grain at 1503 FPS, but my gut tells me that mass moves, so I'm leaning towards 230 gr at 1336 FPS.

I'll be using these for pin shoots. Think bowling pins that get much heavier as the 'game' progresses and each pin is slowly getting filled with lead after each stage.

So which would be better at this task, lighter and faster, or heavier and slower? Does anyone have an practical experience or wisdom to offer?

i load 45 acp, 185,200,230,,, these look a little fast too me...

 

[R1ch]

Ok, this isn't standard 45 ACP.

I finally got one of these:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/89640-460-Rowland

 

[Dnotarianni]

230 FMJ over 5.0 Bullseye @830 fps ( factory hardball equivalent) Takes pins right out of the box early in the day and 5.5 Bullseye with same 230 FMJ @ 890 fps later in the day when they get heavy. Anything hotter that this and your fighting recoil on follow-up shots.

Dave

 

[Gammon]

I don't shoot pins very often, but several of my friends do. They swear by the lead 255 gr swc. This bullet is intended for the Colt SA revolver and doesn't feed well in all 1911s. The bullet has a flat point that does a great job of knocking the pins off of the table. You don't need (or want) a super hot load as the increased recoil will slow you down.

 

[drgrant]

Ok, this isn't standard 45 ACP.

Yeah, .460 Rowland is just a LITTLE bit different.

That must kick some serious ass on pins, though. I haven't seen much though, that regular .45 won't handle. That caliber probably pays the most dividends near the end of the day, when the tables are all shot up and you get logjams.... although with that caliber, there are probably a lot less logjams.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

I load 230gr FMJ and get good results on pins. Upper reaches of Titegroup. Around 1075fps or so (if memory is right) HPs are nice but expensive, unless you find them on sale.

What's the charge you are running? (I'm guessing you are using .45 ACP). I've always wondered what the real limit is for Titegroup in .45. I've gone up to like 5 grains or so, but haven't been too brave to go beyond that.

-Mike

 

[R1ch]

Yeah, .460 Rowland is just a LITTLE bit different.

That must kick some serious ass on pins, though. I haven't seen much though, that regular .45 won't handle. That caliber probably pays the most dividends near the end of the day, when the tables are all shot up and you get logjams.... although with that caliber, there are probably a lot less logjams.

-Mike

Yes this is my plan!

I figured in the least it would be a fun (an slightly expensive) experiment. Most of the guys with the 44 Magnums have no issues clearing the table, even at the end of the day. They also help with loading the pins up with lead as the shoot progresses. So I thought I'd build a separate gun for our open class shoot that might be a bit of fun while I was at it, hence the 460 roland! I'm about ready to load some cartridges up and try it out. I just need to pickup some 230 gr XTP bullets, I have 185 gr JSWC so I can load those easily.

 

[R1ch]

Initial tests show that the 230 gr XTP pushes those heavy pins with noticeably more authority than the 185 gr JSWC's at higher velocity.

Summary, "heavier and slower" seems to win this battle, so in this case bet on the turtle instead of the rabbit!

 

[Dnotarianni]

Initial tests show that the 230 gr XTP pushes those heavy pins with noticeably more authority than the 185 gr JSWC's at higher velocity.

Summary, "heavier and slower" seems to win this battle, so in this case bet on the turtle instead of the rabbit!

Any chrony readings on the 2 loads?
Thanks Dave

 

[M1911]

I'm with the heavy and slow crowd, and JHP or wadcutter.

 

[R1ch]

Any chrony readings on the 2 loads?
Thanks Dave

Yes, I can give you the exact details when I'm back in front of my chrony data, but the 185 grain JSWC was about 1480 FPS (about 899 FT LBS, 39 ft lbs/sec of momentum and 17 Taylor KO factor)) and the 230 grain XTP was going about 1300 FPS (862 FT LBS, 42 ft lbs/sec momentum and 19 Taylor KO factor, calculations from http://www.handloads.com/calc/quick.asp ). These numbers are from memory, so I could be off a bit, but these numbers should be close.

 

[hdgun]

Always go heavy and slow. A slow bus will do more damage than a fast toyota. When I used to shoot pins we would keep around 210 power factor. (bullet weight x velocity) the old 45 lod was 255gr lswc w/4.5gr 231

 

[R1ch]

I just looked up my Chrony numbers, my memory was close!

My actual numbers were 1495 FPS for the 185 grain JSWC and 1308 FPS for the 230 grain XTP, so as I thought, the numbers in my prior post are in the proper ballpark.

 

[jim42]

230 fmj,5grns of red dot works well,chorny 850fps

 

[M1911]

230 fmj,5grns of red dot works well,chorny 850fps

They're running much hotter loads than that.