MSP Colonel's Son in Hot Water - Drunk with Guns

M1911

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During most of my time on the job, our town PD's position was to be extremely lenient on DUI and in fact let folks sleep it off in their cars.

In more recent times, I became aware of the issues discussed in this thread and I vehemently disagree with charging someone not driving but sleeping it off in their car with DUI just because they are in a vehicle and possess keys. I am glad to no longer wear a badge!!!!!
I think in the past police were too lenient on DUI. I don't have a problem with police arresting some for DUI if they were actually driving. The problem I have is with police charging someone with DUI because they were passed out in a car that is parked and turned off. I have a problem with that.
 

pastera

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you are in an absolute minority then.
i have a friend who was trying to sleep off on a rear seat of his car - he was charged with a DUI driving. no arguments helped.

and after that anyone still wonders why people hate police.
Back in the college days, I was sleeping one off in the bed of my truck (had a cap) at UMassD (SMU at the time)
Campus police insisted on me going in and getting my registration - I was smart enough to refuse stating that going into the cab while intoxicated would be a DUI and simply request to go sleep it off in the dorms to which I had a key.
Luckily I recently had my training by JAG for my guard unit and we were specifically instructed to drop the keys in the trunk before sleeping one off. I guess that was about the time that the police were being trained on arresting for simply being drunk in a vehicle.
 

paul73

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was about the time that the police were being trained on arresting
i wonder if police now has a quota to produce on the DUIs count they supposed to log in every week, as a performance indicator. as what they do now is beyond any reason.
'now' - not like it had started yesterday, but, still.
 

pastera

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i wonder if police now has a quota to produce on the DUIs count they supposed to log in every week, as a performance indicator. as what they do now is beyond any reason.
I doubt it but on campus in the early 90's was easy picking for drunks
 
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For the period of time from when the individual left his place of residence via motor vehicle to the time of willfully (?) becoming incapacitated with drink (?)-where all the legal requirements of gun ownership/transport in the Commonwealth adhered to ?

And once again, you choose to not answer any of my questions, because it is clear you have no viable answer. Change the text to passed out, it makes no difference to the question. Is this your logic?

"since he was passed out drunk in his vehicle, he must have been driving drunk at some point in the past (whether on that date or a previous occasion), therefore it is OK to charge him with driving drunk, even though the police did not discover him driving and have no evidence that he was driving drunk. And that the fact the he had guns in the car makes it worse because, well, reasons."

?
 

dixidawg

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Yes. See my personal opinion and comments below.



I think that your second post above nails the intent here.

During most of my time on the job, our town PD's position was to be extremely lenient on DUI and in fact let folks sleep it off in their cars.

In more recent times, I became aware of the issues discussed in this thread and I vehemently disagree with charging someone not driving but sleeping it off in their car with DUI just because they are in a vehicle and possess keys. I am glad to no longer wear a badge!!!!!

As for the crime of carrying/possessing while under the influence, here's the law verbatim, my comments follow:


The interesting thing here is that if the person does NOT possess a LTC, they can't be charged under this law!!!

Now, to the case that started this thread: If there were no loaded guns in the vehicle, the person is NOT guilty of a 269-10H charge. Some PDs/DAs will still jack a person up on this bogus charge and LOs can confiscate guns/ammo/mags/licenses under "suitability", but no gun crime was committed. However, if they succeed on the DUI charge, the person does get Fed PP status and everything gets confiscated anyway.
And what if they were not a “firearm” as defined in section 121?

“Firearm'', a stun gun or a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.”
 

AHM

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retarded was for him to follow their orders to unlock the car and step out. he should have refused and tell them to f-off.
You're cruisin' for a brusin' if you think that's how the law works.

Police are free to jerk you out of your car like a bad molar
at any time during a legit traffic stop.

I think in the past police were too lenient on DUI. I don't have a problem with police arresting some for DUI if they were actually driving. The problem I have is with police charging someone with DUI because they were passed out in a car that is parked and turned off. I have a problem with that.
If you find a drunk parked in the middle of nowhere,
is there probable cause that they were driving drunk?

And what if they were not a “firearm” as defined in section 121?
If you give examples of such guns,
I'll tell you the answers.
 

M1911

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If you find a drunk parked in the middle of nowhere,
is there probable cause that they were driving drunk?
Was this fellow "in the middle of nowhere"? Were there empties in the area that showed he might have parked right there and drank right there?
 

paul73

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You're cruisin' for a brusin' if you think that's how the law works.

Police are free to jerk you out of your car like a bad molar
at any time during a legit traffic stop.
yes they are allowed by the evil of this world to f#ck you up, but it is better then voluntarily submit to their f#ckery.
 

AHM

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yes they are allowed by the evil of this world to f#ck you up, but it is better then voluntarily submit to their f#ckery.
I've got your new avatar.
2016-mj-shiner.jpg
 
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what '?'
?
why cannot i have a right to sleep drunk in my own car - ?

Because, depending on location, in the vast majority of instances it is both correct and reasonable to presume operation while under the influence which of course puts the citizenry (the victims of the behavior) at very real risk .

Just where would you like to pass out/take a nap and in the event that you put handguns/rifles in the vehicle where are they located and how are they secured ?
 

556USER

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Seems like all the dude did (that they can prove) is be drunk in possession of firearms. Is it smart? Not really, but seems like much ado about nothing. No harm, no foul. Don’t give a shit who his dad is.
You're right it's not about being drunk in possession. It's about the fu...king coverup that 99% of us stiffs don't benefit from if we get jammed up for the same thing. The country has had this cancer for a very long time. Nobody should be shocked that it is getting worse at all levels and accelerating fast.
 
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Because, depending on location, in the vast majority of instances it is both correct and reasonable to presume operation while under the influence which of course puts the citizenry (the victims of the behavior) at very real risk .

Just where would you like to pass out/take a nap and in the event that you put handguns/rifles in the vehicle where are they located and how are they secured ?
He was found in a built-up area near several bars/restaurants. Why would you presume drunk driving in this case?

As for the gun storage, all I can say is you need to leave Massachusetts every once in a while. Nobody in a state with actual freedom locks their guns up in the car.
 

Junior314

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Because, depending on location, in the vast majority of instances it is both correct and reasonable to presume operation while under the influence which of course puts the citizenry (the victims of the behavior) at very real risk .

Just where would you like to pass out/take a nap and in the event that you put handguns/rifles in the vehicle where are they located and how are they secured ?
“Presume”
 

AHM

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6gzyo7.jpg


He was found in a built-up area near several bars/restaurants.
(Can't wait to hear the defense narrative about which one he went to).

“Presume”
Terry v. Ohio places a premium upon precise language,
but it's not incomprehensible.

 

Dench

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Because, depending on location, in the vast majority of instances it is both correct and reasonable to presume operation while under the influence which of course puts the citizenry (the victims of the behavior) at very real risk .

Just where would you like to pass out/take a nap and in the event that you put handguns/rifles in the vehicle where are they located and how are they secured ?
Sir, please.
 

BigTimber

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Because, depending on location, in the vast majority of instances it is both correct and reasonable to presume operation while under the influence which of course puts the citizenry (the victims of the behavior) at very real risk .

Just where would you like to pass out/take a nap and in the event that you put handguns/rifles in the vehicle where are they located and how are they secured ?
BAF0BF4F-49A0-46D0-890A-9E85EF201FE2.jpeg
 

quiller

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More to this story for sure. Here’s are 2 aside stories from Cape Cod.

1. A buddy of mine was sleeping in his car in his driveway as we were partying in his house and he could not sleep. He was drinking all night with us before his car nap. Cops came to break up the party and busted him for DUI. Keep in mind his car keys were sitting on the kitchen counter. The charge did not stick but they jacked him up for a few weeks as they took his license.
2. I sold a car up the former chief of police son (who as an a$$ wipe at best). Few nights later he gets pulled over for driving the wrong way on a one way while drunk. Again, like the above it was a summer cop who wrote him up. Two days later I had two detectives down to shop asking where I got the car and why I never registered it….because I was running in on a repair plate….I’m not sure what happened but they were definitely trying to get him off.

Lift rug and push crap under, nothing to see here.
 
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Possession while intoxicated, we might be making some progress

It appears that I can also presume that some here would throw some firearms into their car and then drive to a bar to tank up.
 

Rob Boudrie

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What happens to civil fines generated by private sector sworn PD (railroad, colleges, etc.) for things like traffic offenses? I assume they go to the town in which the violation was cited and not to the entity paying the officer's salary (rr, college), so there should be less financial incentive. Also, what of civil forfeitures in which the seizing department gets a cut of the action? If a college does a civil forfeiture (say, taking cash from a student on his way to use it to pay the tuition bill), does the college get a cut of the action or does the private sector status of the LE agency cause the commission to be bumped up to a government agency?
 

M1911

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Possession while intoxicated, we might be making some progress

It appears that I can also presume that some here would throw some firearms into their car and then drive to a bar to tank up.
In free states, a lot of people have “truck guns”. That is, they leave a rifle and ammo in their vehicle at all times, even if they are headed out to a bar for a few. I wouldn’t do that because guns can get stolen (and I don’t drink), but I don’t see why you are having kittens about someone being drunk while they had guns in their car. How is that different from someone getting drunk at home while there are guns in the home?
 
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